Chance of any recourse?
Discussion
Bit of an odd one this and probably nothing I can do now, but it’s always nagged me so thought I’d at least ask.
In feb my 2010 x5 broke down. I knew straight away from the noise it was a serious engine issue.
I had a 3rd party warranty on it.
Got it towed to BMW. I’m going to cut a long story short here, it turned out the bottom end was gone and new engine was needed.
The warranty co were great throughout and agreed to pay out but the limit was value of car (£15k, about right).
Bmw charged just over £17k for the work. I had to pay the £2k+ difference myself.
My gripe is this. Should I have been put in a position where I have to fork out over £2k myself to pay a repair bill thats more than what the car is worth? Surely the whole point of a warranty is so I’m not left forking our huge amounts myself.
I’m obv very grateful for the £15k they did pay, but what if I couldn’t afford the £2k? It’s seems unfair to be forced into a choice between paying £2k myself or scrap a £15k car, when you have pay for a warranty to avoid that.
Does anyone think it’s reasonable in that situation to have given me a cash pay out instead?
Ps before anyone says £17k is too much and I should have taken car elsewhere, when I first towed it to Bmw I never expected a £17k bill and by the time it materialised, my car was in bits and I was already in for about £3/4K with them.
In feb my 2010 x5 broke down. I knew straight away from the noise it was a serious engine issue.
I had a 3rd party warranty on it.
Got it towed to BMW. I’m going to cut a long story short here, it turned out the bottom end was gone and new engine was needed.
The warranty co were great throughout and agreed to pay out but the limit was value of car (£15k, about right).
Bmw charged just over £17k for the work. I had to pay the £2k+ difference myself.
My gripe is this. Should I have been put in a position where I have to fork out over £2k myself to pay a repair bill thats more than what the car is worth? Surely the whole point of a warranty is so I’m not left forking our huge amounts myself.
I’m obv very grateful for the £15k they did pay, but what if I couldn’t afford the £2k? It’s seems unfair to be forced into a choice between paying £2k myself or scrap a £15k car, when you have pay for a warranty to avoid that.
Does anyone think it’s reasonable in that situation to have given me a cash pay out instead?
Ps before anyone says £17k is too much and I should have taken car elsewhere, when I first towed it to Bmw I never expected a £17k bill and by the time it materialised, my car was in bits and I was already in for about £3/4K with them.
Jag_NE said:
I’d be thinking the opposite to you....new engine and 17k of work, cost to you only 2k...
Definitely how I thought of it hence why it’s only now that I even thought about querying it, just to confirm to myself that all was correct, even though it was gutting to have to pay over £2k myself. It’s just more the principle that didn’t make sense, ie they paid £15k to Bmw anyway, they could easily have prevented me having to fork out £2k by giving me the money instead, probably sounds too simplistic I know!
Thesprucegoose said:
were you forced to use a main dealer?
Not initially, chose Bmw as I had warranty so knew costs would be covered regardless of what the problem was (obv not realising at the time that the cost would £17k!). But once that became apparent, I was forced to continue with them as it would have cost £3/4K to put my car together in order to take it elsewhere. Warranty direct were great, in fact I was slightly shocked that it went through so easily, no trying to find an excuse to get out of paying etc.
I also have no issues with the £15k limit they paid. I defo see it as a great result. I’m also happy to have a brand new engine with warranty for £2k.
Maybe I’m struggling to put the point across properly about what I did have a slight issue with, especially without it sounding ungrateful which isn’t the case.
Basically, by refusing a cash payout they forced me into a repair that doesn’t make any logical sense (as it’s more than car is worth) and also cost me a huge amount of money in the process.
At the end of the day, they still paid out £15k cash to BMW so what difference would it really make giving it to me instead, thus avoiding any unnecessary hardship for?
As I said, I was fortunate to have been able to afford the £2k but what if I couldn’t? It seems a bit insane that I would have had to scrap a £15k car despite having a valid warranty covered issue.
I also have no issues with the £15k limit they paid. I defo see it as a great result. I’m also happy to have a brand new engine with warranty for £2k.
Maybe I’m struggling to put the point across properly about what I did have a slight issue with, especially without it sounding ungrateful which isn’t the case.
Basically, by refusing a cash payout they forced me into a repair that doesn’t make any logical sense (as it’s more than car is worth) and also cost me a huge amount of money in the process.
At the end of the day, they still paid out £15k cash to BMW so what difference would it really make giving it to me instead, thus avoiding any unnecessary hardship for?
As I said, I was fortunate to have been able to afford the £2k but what if I couldn’t? It seems a bit insane that I would have had to scrap a £15k car despite having a valid warranty covered issue.
Rewe said:
It is just like any insurance product; the payout will be determined by the terms and conditions that the premium is based on.
It looks like you chose your policy wisely.
Thing is with insurance, say a £1000 laptop that needed a £1200 repair, they would simply give you £1000 cash less excess so you can buy a new one, or do whatever you want to with the money. It looks like you chose your policy wisely.
They wouldn’t force you into the £1200 repair route where you have to contribute the extra £200 yourself or end up with nothing at all.
Rewe said:
Ah yes, I get it now. It does seem odd that there isn’t an option to pay you directly and let you source own repairs. Mind you, once your engine was in bits what other choice did you really have?
That was the dilemma, as by that point I didn’t have an option but to go ahead with the repair as engine was in bits. Durzel said:
That’s not strictly what the OP is saying, but expecting a warranty company to dish out £15k in cash for a failure, rather than “forcing” him to pay £2k, is not remotely realistic.
For starters it’s a warranty on the car, not some kind of insurance policy. They fixed the car, per their contract.
The choice he had was not to pay anything and accept his car wouldn’t be fixed, or not to take out the policy in the first place, or at least reading the T&Cs if one did.
Thing is, that’s exactly what they did, ie dish out £15k cash to me for the failure. For starters it’s a warranty on the car, not some kind of insurance policy. They fixed the car, per their contract.
The choice he had was not to pay anything and accept his car wouldn’t be fixed, or not to take out the policy in the first place, or at least reading the T&Cs if one did.
Edited by Durzel on Sunday 8th December 19:10
But I had to give them an invoice proving I had carried out and paid for the work first.
When I say force, I don’t mean literally or directly. But by leaving me with the option of paying the extra £2k myself or scrapping a £15k car, it’s not much of a choice.
Sheepshanks said:
You said earlier by they time it was realised it was going to cost £17K you were £3/4K in anyway - so even if WD had paid you £15K as the value of the car you'd have had to pay the dealer the £3/4K.
Was there any discussion with WD about a cash settlement? I don't know what they do if they write off the car - do they expect to keep it, so they can sell for salvage?
If you feel genuinely miffed about it, it might be worth a complaint, first to WD who will reject it, and then to the Ombudsman, who will often find in favour of consumers.
Maybe not quite £3/4K but certainly 2/3k. Was there any discussion with WD about a cash settlement? I don't know what they do if they write off the car - do they expect to keep it, so they can sell for salvage?
If you feel genuinely miffed about it, it might be worth a complaint, first to WD who will reject it, and then to the Ombudsman, who will often find in favour of consumers.
Edited by Sheepshanks on Sunday 8th December 19:18
If they gave me £15k payout, I’d have been left with about £12/13k after paying BMW.
BUT, I wouldn’t have had to pay out over £2k myself and with the £12/13k, I could have bought a replacement car.
I’m not sure what they would do with the car, I assume get whatever they could for it? They could have clawed back some of the £15k they paid out that way as well!
Ps yea I did ask them but they flat out said no. The advisor even agreed that it’s crazy to go ahead with a £17k repair when car is only worth £15k!
Sheepshanks said:
That’s completely wrong, and it’s a big part of the reason why people misunderstand, and have hassle with, this product.
It absolutely is an insurance policy, it’s got underwriters and everything! You’re insuring against the car breaking. The payout limit is the value of the car.
Exactly, I do understand this part although i know your comment wasn’t directed at me. It absolutely is an insurance policy, it’s got underwriters and everything! You’re insuring against the car breaking. The payout limit is the value of the car.
The bottom line is it’s perfectly possible to be extremely grateful for the £15k they did pay but also a bit annoyed that it was conditional on me repairing the car at a personal cost of £2k plus myself.
The limit of most insurances/warranties is value of car, but in reality, its an almost arbitrary figure as you would never expect a repair to cost more than that limit in the first place (especially when it’s a £15k car) and if it did, you would never expect anyone to insist on going ahead with that repair and forcing you to pay the extra amount yourself!
The way I see it is that providing it’s a valid claim, which mine was, I shouldn’t be a penny out of pocket other than the excess, because that’s why I pay for the insurance in the first place.
Sheepshanks said:
Bearing in mind the way it works is you pay the bill and then claim it back, once the garage had done the strip and diagnose and it was realised the bill was going to be £17K, did you have a discussion with WD about a cash settlement?
Yes I did, as I just assumed the car would be written off and I would be paid the £15k cash. They flat out refused to do it that way and said their policy is to only pay out for repairs, they don’t do cash settlements. I argued about the fact that it doesn’t make sense to spend £17k repairing it, and the fact it’s going to cost me £2k plus myself, but they wouldn’t budge.
I almost feel guilty about moaning as wd were so good otherwise and ultimately they paid out £15k for me (which is one of the reasons I didn’t make a complaint at the time).
ging84 said:
I'm not sure I quite understand.
Would the company have paid out £15k and written off the car, or would they have only paid up to £15k if it was repaired, and nothing if you could not afford to make up the difference ?
If they'll pay out as a mechanical write off then the limit makes sense, but if not it seem somewhat of an arbitrary choice but then perhaps if the policy is priced on the car value then it makes sense.
They would only have paid out £15k if the car was repaired and I had an invoice to prove it. Would the company have paid out £15k and written off the car, or would they have only paid up to £15k if it was repaired, and nothing if you could not afford to make up the difference ?
If they'll pay out as a mechanical write off then the limit makes sense, but if not it seem somewhat of an arbitrary choice but then perhaps if the policy is priced on the car value then it makes sense.
If I couldn’t afford the extra £2k myself than Bmw wouldn’t have repaired the car, and wd wouldn’t have paid out anything to me.
As you can see, I really did not have much choice other than to go ahead with the repair!
Sheepshanks said:
Well, if the policy doesn’t offer that option (and it doesn’t look as if it does) then a cash settlement was never going to happen.
I’m not an expert in the legal side but surely a term can’t be unfair, especially if it has the potential to cause financial hardship to the customer? Only paying for repairs makes sense in 99.9% of situations where it’s fully covered by warranty co as it’s less than value of car. But my repair was more than value of car and I had to pay a significant amount towards it, surely that term than becomes a bit unfair and would be more sensible to scrap the car instead of insisting on repairing it?
Just my opinion of course and it’s done and dusted now I guess. Just wanted to get it off my chest more than anything.
Edited by ASONI on Monday 9th December 00:44
ging84 said:
It does sound like they charged full rate, which would have been heavily discounted had it have been BMW warranty work, and probably could have been negotiated down.
They did give me a big discount as i negotiated as much as possible, that was the bottom price they would do. JxJ Jr. said:
What are the T&Cs around choice of garage? Warranty Direct appear to have a 'network of garages' and a labour rate limit. Going to a BMW authorised garage with a third party warranty perhaps leaves little room to argue about things working out a bit costly.
They do have their own network which would have been cheaper no doubt and I probably wouldn't have had to pay anything extra. But in my defence, I pay good money for a warranty and quite reasonably assumed the repair costs would be covered, so why shouldn't I take it to BMW and get the benefits of main dealer (2 year warranty on work, nice courtesy car etc etc).
However, I obviously didn't expect the bill to come to £17.2k (who does!?) which is not just a 'bit costly', it's insane and well over the value of the car.
Even if I did go with their approved garage (which could just be a bog standard garage), what are the chances of them being able to carry out such major work? It's possible that I would have ended up having to take it to BMW or an independent specialist anyway, once the required work became apparant.
Edited by ASONI on Thursday 12th December 12:03
Sheepshanks said:
Not really, because he'd taken the precaution of insuring against the event that happened.
WD weren't doing him a favour. He bought, for not a trivial amount, one of their policies.
Exactly, it seems some are suggesting I should count my lucky stars, accept what I got and be grateful of any payout as if it were some kind of bonus or lottery win. WD weren't doing him a favour. He bought, for not a trivial amount, one of their policies.
I'm grateful it went smoothly and I didn't encounter the usual problems when dealing with 3rd party warranties but that's about it. Why should I be grateful of the payout? They haven't done me a favour, only what they were contractually obliged to do in return for the good money I pay for having an insurance with them.
Just to re-iterate to others, I don't have a gripe with the £15k payout, only with the fact they insisted on the car being repaired despite the fact it makes no sense, makes zero difference to them, and costs me £2.2k in the process.
Edited by ASONI on Thursday 12th December 12:02
Graveworm said:
But it does make sense in a lot of ways. Even if they paid the garage 15K, which I doubt, it would only cost them 12.5K net. Paying you would cost the full amount of the payout. Leaving aside the potential problems that getting an expensive estimate, from an expensive source or even a friendly garage, then having the work done elsewhere.
Who would own the "Written off" car would the warranty company need an infrastructure to manage all these cars?
But because I used my own garage, they paid the £15k directly to me so whatever the actual cost of that to warranty direct is, it would have been the same regardless of whether I actually repaired the car or not. Who would own the "Written off" car would the warranty company need an infrastructure to manage all these cars?
Edited by ASONI on Thursday 12th December 12:53
JxJ Jr. said:
I appreciate your position, but trying to give you an objective view from the outside looking in (and likely from the other side), the obvious retort is if you want main dealer level of service and competence (
yeah, I know...) then go for the brand's official extended warranty, not a third party's.
I understand, but for any other situation where the repair costs less than £15k (which is just about anything that could go wrong with a car, apart from, obviously, the engine!), it would have covered the full costs even if using BMW main dealer. yeah, I know...) then go for the brand's official extended warranty, not a third party's.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff