Landlord denying family representation entry to property?
Discussion
Hi all
We’ve had a sudden death in the immediate family quite far away from where we live.
My wife has asked the landlord to allow a nominated representative of the family who live close by entry to help clear the property, however the landlord has only responded to say he will not allow anyone aside from the next of kin entry (aged 70+).
Obviously they cannot clear the flat and as we live far away this is proving to be a massive problem as well as very stressful.
We have tried calling him to also find out how long the prior is paid up until, how to get a key etc and he refuses to answer the phone to speak. So far we’ve just had the one text and it’s been a few days.
We will need to head home at some point too.
Any ideas or advice on the situation is welcome.
We’ve had a sudden death in the immediate family quite far away from where we live.
My wife has asked the landlord to allow a nominated representative of the family who live close by entry to help clear the property, however the landlord has only responded to say he will not allow anyone aside from the next of kin entry (aged 70+).
Obviously they cannot clear the flat and as we live far away this is proving to be a massive problem as well as very stressful.
We have tried calling him to also find out how long the prior is paid up until, how to get a key etc and he refuses to answer the phone to speak. So far we’ve just had the one text and it’s been a few days.
We will need to head home at some point too.
Any ideas or advice on the situation is welcome.
randlemarcus said:
Lodger or tenant? What the LL is saying makes it sound like your relative was renting a room. If they were a tenant, then the LL has very little say about how many people help to clear out your relatives home. In this circumstance, I would be more inclined to seek forgiveness than permission.
Landlord, he was renting a full property. We've also got an issue where we can't get keys etc to the property.hawshaw said:
Wait it out
Our issue is that the only next of kin is older and we live a good distance away. We don't want to come back to find that all the property has been thrown out and I suspect that the landlord is the type of person who would do that. Whilst I don't wish to speculate much, from what I hear about his behaviour when the death was discovered, he seems to be the type who really doesn't care about anything unless it's his cash.
It could all be remedied by allowing our friend, who lives opposite to help.
Ordinarily I would just open myself and go in, but unfortunately the door has been secured with screws as the police had to break it down (sadly relative had passed away). Although I'm sure if I go out with a drill and remove the screws the LL will be there sharpish.
The LL has met the NOK and she's a 70+ lady. So the main issue is that she can't shift anything by herself. We're up here for the week and "MAY" be allowed to accompany her, but we do need to travel home.
We're happy to head over and move things ASAP and get out of his hair, but he is being difficult. I'm not sure how rental was worked out, I don't think it was through the council, but he is on their list online as a "good landlord"....
Once this is over I think they will be getting a letter, not that it will do any good.
The LL has met the NOK and she's a 70+ lady. So the main issue is that she can't shift anything by herself. We're up here for the week and "MAY" be allowed to accompany her, but we do need to travel home.
We're happy to head over and move things ASAP and get out of his hair, but he is being difficult. I'm not sure how rental was worked out, I don't think it was through the council, but he is on their list online as a "good landlord"....
Once this is over I think they will be getting a letter, not that it will do any good.
blindspot said:
It's not up to the LL to 'allow' entry. The tenancy passes to the deceased's estate. It doesn't just end automatically. What's best for the LL is if the executors of the estate clear the property out and hand it back nice & clean, as soon as is reasonably practicable.
The executor, representing the estate, has every right to enter the property - and the LL has no grounds to prevent this. That said, he's also not your butler so doesn't have to organise keys or a welcoming committee. Bloody silly not to though, as the alternative is that he would need to issue s21 to the estate, then a possession order, warrant of possession, take possession and hold on to the contents as an involuntary bailee, chase the estate for the rent, sort out utils & council tax...
Thanks for the help.The executor, representing the estate, has every right to enter the property - and the LL has no grounds to prevent this. That said, he's also not your butler so doesn't have to organise keys or a welcoming committee. Bloody silly not to though, as the alternative is that he would need to issue s21 to the estate, then a possession order, warrant of possession, take possession and hold on to the contents as an involuntary bailee, chase the estate for the rent, sort out utils & council tax...
I find it all very odd, surely he would want us to clear the property asap. Or we really want is him to allow our representative, who lives almost opposite, to take the lead in this all.
Bert - yes. Door broken in and screws shut.
When I say entry I probably mean permission to enter without him calling the police etc.
We are waiting on the police to call us and I think we will be asking them to accompany us in the first instance.
The neighbours are also not great and have a history of threats etc.
Basically I want to do it all right so if someone is called I am in the right and I’d ideally like to avoid a confrontation.
When I say entry I probably mean permission to enter without him calling the police etc.
We are waiting on the police to call us and I think we will be asking them to accompany us in the first instance.
The neighbours are also not great and have a history of threats etc.
Basically I want to do it all right so if someone is called I am in the right and I’d ideally like to avoid a confrontation.
essayer said:
Why not get the NoK to go around, collect key/repair locks then pass the key onto whoever they wish?
Not sure about the will, knowing the relative most likely there is none. But the NoK is very evident (mother) and has been in touch with the landlord but really isn’t in the state to do anything and doesn’t really know what to do.
NoK is a 70+ lady who wants us and the neighbour to assist with the removal of property.
Thanks all.
Spoken to the police as part of the process and they have confirmed that the tenancy goes to the NoK and whilst the landlord may not want people to go in, if authorised, he can't really do anything.
We can't go into until the post mortem anyhow and this is when the officer dealing with it is on shift. He has kindly offered to send accompaniment with us the first time to deal with any issues and has also updated the notes to reflect the issues with the landlord.
Spoken to the police as part of the process and they have confirmed that the tenancy goes to the NoK and whilst the landlord may not want people to go in, if authorised, he can't really do anything.
We can't go into until the post mortem anyhow and this is when the officer dealing with it is on shift. He has kindly offered to send accompaniment with us the first time to deal with any issues and has also updated the notes to reflect the issues with the landlord.
Well an update.
So we tried to contact the landlord, sent messages and calls and he refused to respond past the message saying he will only deal with the elderly representative.
After speaking to the police they were happy for us to get the belongings and they had no need to preserve the scene. The DS offered to send to some officers with us, but as we were travelling 250 miles up and down the country we set a day to go and get the belongings, informed the DS.
Whilst all trying to organise a funeral and in my case work. Typically both cars had problems which I also had to fix.
This week, before the funeral I unscrewed the door (as it has been screwed shut due to the police access) and we spent half a day clearing the flat. The crazy neighbour arrived and was very pleasant. We had to get a family friend (whom the neighbour doesn’t like) to help as there is a limit to what you can move by yourself.
It was a very sad and upsetting process.
Upon completing the day and being back with the NOK, she got a call from the police and I got a call from the family friend.
8 police officers had turned up to a burglary, reported by the landlord. The family friend who lives opposite was accused of theft and the police.
On the call I was questioned by quite an aggressive PC who wanted to know how I had “broken in” and used a drill and if so was authorised I should have a key. I told him that it was the police who had broken the lock and screwed the door shut and not me.
He then started to tell me that I would need to come down to the station (not knowing my name etc) to answer a charge of B&E.
After he finally stopped, I told him that I had spoken to the DS and gave the name and reference. This seemed to calm him down. My wife was going through the same thing with a WPC on another line.
Apparently the call had “just come in”, we had been there for about 5 hours, so the neighbour waited until we finished to call the landlord.
The police then said that they would not charge me but the landlord may wish to take me to court for trespass, despite him refusing to contact us and receiving a call from the DS to contact us.
Day of the funeral and my wife got a message from the landlord saying that no one will be given access to the property due to “burglary and theft” and that he wants full names, addresses, email and phone for everyone involved.
This is so he can “send a form” and seek costs for damages. We will fill the form out for return of the tenancy, but that’s all. If there is a deposit he can keep it.
As far as I am concerned we will do all contact through a solicitor as a proxy. Having researched him fully, he looks to be less than a mode citizen and by all accounts a bit of a thug and associated with some not great people. Even though he does have a company and is a “good landlord”.
We are concerned that given the area if he finds out where the NOK lives there will be a safety issue for her.
So more fun at a sad and stressful time.
So we tried to contact the landlord, sent messages and calls and he refused to respond past the message saying he will only deal with the elderly representative.
After speaking to the police they were happy for us to get the belongings and they had no need to preserve the scene. The DS offered to send to some officers with us, but as we were travelling 250 miles up and down the country we set a day to go and get the belongings, informed the DS.
Whilst all trying to organise a funeral and in my case work. Typically both cars had problems which I also had to fix.
This week, before the funeral I unscrewed the door (as it has been screwed shut due to the police access) and we spent half a day clearing the flat. The crazy neighbour arrived and was very pleasant. We had to get a family friend (whom the neighbour doesn’t like) to help as there is a limit to what you can move by yourself.
It was a very sad and upsetting process.
Upon completing the day and being back with the NOK, she got a call from the police and I got a call from the family friend.
8 police officers had turned up to a burglary, reported by the landlord. The family friend who lives opposite was accused of theft and the police.
On the call I was questioned by quite an aggressive PC who wanted to know how I had “broken in” and used a drill and if so was authorised I should have a key. I told him that it was the police who had broken the lock and screwed the door shut and not me.
He then started to tell me that I would need to come down to the station (not knowing my name etc) to answer a charge of B&E.
After he finally stopped, I told him that I had spoken to the DS and gave the name and reference. This seemed to calm him down. My wife was going through the same thing with a WPC on another line.
Apparently the call had “just come in”, we had been there for about 5 hours, so the neighbour waited until we finished to call the landlord.
The police then said that they would not charge me but the landlord may wish to take me to court for trespass, despite him refusing to contact us and receiving a call from the DS to contact us.
Day of the funeral and my wife got a message from the landlord saying that no one will be given access to the property due to “burglary and theft” and that he wants full names, addresses, email and phone for everyone involved.
This is so he can “send a form” and seek costs for damages. We will fill the form out for return of the tenancy, but that’s all. If there is a deposit he can keep it.
As far as I am concerned we will do all contact through a solicitor as a proxy. Having researched him fully, he looks to be less than a mode citizen and by all accounts a bit of a thug and associated with some not great people. Even though he does have a company and is a “good landlord”.
We are concerned that given the area if he finds out where the NOK lives there will be a safety issue for her.
So more fun at a sad and stressful time.
eldar said:
I'd suggest an attempt to recover the deposit is made. It is up to the landlord to prove it should not be returned, so they would actually have to do something to justify their decision.
Ordinarily I would agree, but we really just want shot of him as soon as possible. The longer the contact the more at risk we put the NOK. Last think we want is to get a call saying their door has been kicked in or worse.
theboss said:
I'd also do exactly the same again, giving the DS a heads-up beforehand, and whilst vacating make sure you evidence the overall state the place is in as he's inevitably going to try and bill the estate for a full refit citing the fact that somebody passed away in there. What a prize tit.
Thanks. We tried repeatedly to get hold of him, but he refused. The estate has nothing and NOK is elderly and on benefits so has nothing to claim off. Turns out the rent was paid in cash, weekly, to an office behind a snooker hall… I doubt there was even an agreement.
I’m more concerned about personal safety than anything else.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff