Sold my project car...Now the buyer wants money back!

[si.thii]

Hi everyone!

Hoping I can find some help on here before going to citizens advice (as it's the weekend, and they're not open).

Sold my project car on 1st June that I had owned for around 7 years. Put the original ad up on eBay, got a few bites but nothing serious. Put the car back up for sale on eBay and got a bloke email me and arrange viewing outside of eBay, and subsequently bought the car after haggling.

The car was described to the best of knowledge on the ad. When the guy came and viewed he informed me that on hpi check the car was a Cat D write off from before I ever owned the car for fire damage to the engine compartment. I accepted this was my error, I had never done a hpi check when I bought the car, I hadn't done one when I came to sell. In my mind he had done his due diligence and found an error, which was reflected in the price and during haggling.
He looked over the car for a good hour or so. The car was put back together as best I could to show the parts that were there (I had stripped the car previously to try and repair the rust and everything myself, but never got to that point) He did know this and when he viewed the car I was up front about this.
I had also taken bits off the engine; Radiator and oil cooler were damaged beyond repair so I binned these during my ownership while the car was SORN, he had asked about these and I told him such. The full intake and exhaust manifold (exhauster header was rusted through so binned that years ago) also told him this when he asked, took off the airbox & MAF/throttle body, the rest of the exhaust, full engine loom, ancillaries like water pump, starter motor, distributor, disconnected ABS system, took the brake master cylinder off.
He inspected the engine, asked a few questions about where those things were, I told him the truth that I had kept all the bits in a box and labled everything so I could put it back together (but again I never got to that point). I said he could look in the box to ensure everything was there, he declined.
After everything we came to a mutual agreement in price.
The day after (2nd) he got a mate of his to come and collect the car.

He then text me that evening saying that things were missing, I replied saying I had told him, told him again.Said I did have an aftermarket oil cooler he could have that I had bought for the car.

Text me at gone 23:00 on 3rd June to say he's not happy, saying there are a lot of things missing and he doesnt have the funds to complete the car and now either wants me to retrospectively deduct £1800 from the price paid and give him that £1800 back, or give him a full refund and he gives the car back to me.
Text me again today saying that I have 24 hours to decided what I want to do before he takes legal action against me.
I honestly don't know what to do. I feel that he came and viewed the car, asked questions, and decided to buy it....sold as seen. Apart from the fact I had no idea it was Cat D to start with (I admit thats my error), he still knew this when he bought it, and I had described on the ad on eBay that it was a project car.
Any advice from you guys and girls here?

Thanks in advance, and sorry for the MAHOOSIVE post.

Edited by si.thii on Saturday 4th June 16:11

[si.thii]

Hi everyone, thank you very much for the replies. I had thought as much i.e.; caveat emptor.

I never diliberately mis-advertised or mis-described anything, as I say, I never put in the ad about it being Cat D......I never knew until the buyer told me. But I accepted this and so did he.

And anywho, he came and viewed so knew exactly what he was buying, in what condition. Also, I forgot to add, everything he is saying is missing (except the exhaust, radiator, and oil cooler) I know I put either with the car, or he took with him on the day of purchase, he did take a few boxes to make it easier for his mate.

Also should say I've not replied to any of these last few texts.

Thank you again everyone!

Edited by si.thii on Saturday 4th June 16:12

[si.thii]

OutInTheShed said:

The OP said some stuff was in a box.
If it was not in the box, then some misrepresentation may have occurred?

It's very easy to say 'buyer beware' and all that, but anyone on either side of a deal like this really needs to be very careful about this kind of thing.
When buying 'basket cases' the content of 'the box' ranges from 'everything you need to finish' to 'a random assortment of irrelevant parts, most of them worn out or broken'.

The sale was 'off ebay'. Was is classified ad or are we talking about naughty people who break contracts with ebay?

I wasn't there. The two people who were there need to be clear about exactly what was said and implied.

Many years ago I bought a junk bike with a 'useful box of spares'. A 'useful box' full of scrap basically.

This is a very valid point. I told him in no uncertain terms that the bits I have taken off the engine were in the box, I then went through the box naming the items in it, I then asked him if he would like to go through the box and check everything was correct. He said no that's fine.

I have just gone through a list I put together of the bits in the box....which includes the bits he is saying are missing. Also just looked at prices of the bits he is wanting payment for....they do not total what he is asking for.

[si.thii]

OutInTheShed said:

Tyre Smoke said:

There is absolutely zero proof of who said what to whom at the point of sale. Ultimately there is zero comeback. The buyer with grievance cannot prove what he did or didn't purchase. And since the vendor doesn't have to prove anything, it's all going nowhere. Couple that with the buyer having no money...

Correct. There is zero proof either way of the verbal discussion.
There is however the advert.
If the advert makes claims which the vendor retracted or modified in the verbal discussion, he could be in an awkward position.

A lot of people are very careful describing 'projects' on ebay. Key phrases like 'only the parts shown in the pictures are included'
You see other adverts which imply 'it's all there, just needs paint and assembly'.

Does the buyer have a receipt? What does it say?

I'm sure we can all recall transactions where the purchaser (us!) has believed what he wanted to believe?

Is it possible to say whether the buyer paid a fair price for what he actually got?

Just balancing all those piling in to tell the OP what he wants to hear.
They may be right, but we only have part of one side of it.

These are very very good points. It is just my side of the story. I am trying to be fair and give him credit where credit is due, and also not under play or over play what the buyer might have thought.

Was it a fair price? Well both him and I were.....I wouldn't say happy with the price, but we compromised and agreed on the price so I guess that's fair.

For clarity, here is the advert for the car. Enjoy!

"Welcome to the sale of my beloved 1987 BMW E30. Unfortunately back up for sale here due to remaining unsold from the previous listing with a bidder who declined to pay.

She is a genuine Dolphin Grey metallic MTech 1, with shadowline and body coloured bumbers, from the factory. I do have a spec list from BMW. This makes her a very rare beast, as most of the MTech 1 looking cars that are on the roads are 325i sports with MTech 1 kit added after the fact, and are not actually true MTech 1's. I have tried to factor this into the my reserve, with other factors being the overall very poor condition of my vehicle, and the fact that good E30 MTech 2's (the MTech 1 being much rarer) are now selling for over £20,000. With another genuine MTech 1 selling for £28,000 (A$50,000) on Collecting Cars (03/03/2022). So if, and when completed, she will be worth a small fortune.

First a little history; I bought the car around 7 years ago, she was running and driving beautifully. A little rough around the edges, but with a little work inc. a new custom exhaust, she scrubbed up nicely and I then used her for around 3 years. Taking her to a few shows and just generally using her while the weather was nice.

I dry stored her in between uses, kept her washed and polished. I decided that she was going to be my forever car, and with that I thought I should tastefully modify her; with the plan to take out the rear seats, half-cage, bucket seats for the front, new brakes inc. calipers, and rebuild the engine to make her into a fast road/track car. Before fully committing to all of that, I thought it would be prudent to check everything was nice and soild so that I could do all of those little things with a clear mind. That is where everything started falling apart, literally. I found horribly bodged rust repairs, rust repairs that scream "it'll get through an MOT" with no thought to actually repairing the car for the future. Once finding the rust I was going to attempt to repair her myself, finding that you can get replica parts specifically to repair the normal rust areas from a company call E30Garage Norway. Perfect for repairing all the rust without the hassle and extra cost of getting sheet metal fabricated to fit.

However, unfortunately fate is a cruel mistress, and as such my circumstances have massively changed from when I first started this journey. I still want to complete the repairs, but feel now I should also try and seek to sell her to someone who knows her value, and can repair her properly and get her back on the road sooner than I could ever possibly do it. Saying this, if she does not sell then I will continue to attempt to repair her myself. I will consider all sensible offers, if you'd like to view her yourself that can also be arranged. Please do ask any questions you may have, I will try and answer them as best I can.

I have got partial service history, but have managed to get a lot of documentation together during my ownership.

So to the main problems; The rust. The rust (as well as the f***ing horrendous bodges), as you can see from the pictures, are in most of the usual places. The front passenger and driver floors around the jacking points, with some surface rust further back from the rust hole in the passenger side, that looks like whoever bodged it just found a random red road sign and thought "YEAH! That'll do perfectly!". As well as both rear boot pockets, with more bodges. There are some more minor rust holes on the passenger side near the back of the side mouldling. There is also bubbling to the roof. It may or may not need new metal, I've been told it is most likely surface rust but will need rubbing back before it gets any worse.

I have all the original houndstooth interior (rare and desirable), the original MTech 1 factory fitted body kit, original dash (with genuine 80's cracks!), original MTech 1 steering wheel, and a lot of other original bits. The engine is still in the car, but is half way through being removed from the vehicle as the plan was to rebuild the 2.5 with a new camshaft and other bits. I do still have all the original engine parts to go with the car. As she stands, she is not driving as half way through being stripped down for those much needed repairs.

Again, I must emphasise that she is a project car. For the right person who can get her completed and knows how valuable she can become, she is perfect. I also must retain the right to cancel and remove her from sale at any time if by some miracle I manage to find the ability to repair her. You will need to collect with a trailer, she is currently SORN'd, and it is preferred for cash on collection. I retain the right to end the listing without notice, as there is an interested party already. Thank you for understanding and appriciating this. Any further questions please feel free to ask and I will do my best to get back to you ASAP around my shifts at work."

[si.thii]

Vee said:

The text you posted says “you do still have all the original engine parts” although the engine is halfway through being taken out.
Your original post suggests ancillaries were binned.
A little confusing but ultimately the buyer saw what he was getting.
His pal who collected could have harvested bits before delivering it ?

Yes, I was taking the engine out to rebuild the car, and then the engine itself, I did try and explain this in not so many words. Kept the parts that were still usable and good. Unfortunately the exhaust manifold, oil cooler, and radiator weren't so did bin those. Did express this to him, but obviously didn't explicitly lay this out in the advert.

Well I've thought this as well, I've not approached this issue with him. Not replied to any message as of yet either.

Although I have looked at the cost of the parts he claims are now missing despite being there when the car left my possession, what he's wanting for some of them is extortionate, unless he's wanting aftermarket parts. But I'm not paying for those for him.

Whether I reply saying the above, that the car was sold as agreed on the day, with the parts included as seen and discussed on the day. All parts that he has said are missing were included bar the exhaust manifold, oil cooler, and radiator, but also as discussed on the day.

Don't want to give him any ammunition.

[si.thii]

Davie_GLA said:

There needs to be some sort of auto answer on this.

Ignore and move on mate, the guy bitten off more than he can chew and now wants to give the grief back to you.

ESPECIALLY with project cars.

Please update us

Thank you everyone for your replies. I have also looked over some of the sticky posts relating to this situation, although couldn't find any project car related thread, so difficult to really relate.

I won't reply, he bought the car with, as Ive explain, everything bar the exhaust, oil cooler, and radiator included which he knew. I made sure everything bar those items were included.

As you say, most likely stripped the car for parts he wants and now just wants to palm it back off on me fully, for no cost to him. Or just get some money out of me so he can fund something else.

I will update as the situation progresses!

Edited by si.thii on Saturday 4th June 22:34