Received a parking charge - am I being unreasonable?
Discussion
I just received a parking charge notice, from Horizon parking, for my wife’s car, for our local supermarket car park.
It shows photos of my wife’s car entering the car park at about 9pm on a Thursday evening, and exiting at around 8:30am the next morning, Friday.
They therefore allege that we overstayed the 2 hour limit and owe them £90, or £45 if paid promptly.
The car did indeed enter and leave at those times pictured, but it also left 15 mins after the Thursday entry, and entered 20 mins before the Friday entry…
So it was 2 separate visits yet their cameras/software system has picked the first entry and the last exit.
Sorry if I somehow made that description complex.
I went to the online appeal for Horizon parking, and asked them to cancel the PCN as it was 2 separate visits, said their system is faulty, and informed them that I have CCTV and Ring footage from my house that shows the vehicle movements in line with the entry/exit timings at the car park, but more importantly shows the car parked on our drive when it was apparently left at the supermarket all night long.
They replied, basically saying they didn’t believe me, and that I would have to supply them with the videos from my home CCTV so they can consider my appeal.
Would it be unreasonable of me to reply like this:
“No, I am not wasting any more of my time on this matter. I have told you your system is mistaken or faulty, given you the explanation as to the actual movements of my car, and I will not use my spare time to locate, download, or send my private CCTV footage to you. If you wish to verify my story, you can check the Supermarket car park CCTV yourselves on your own time, or check the other images held by your own camera system at the times I have mentioned. If you decide to persue this matter, I will enjoy attending court, showing my CCTV footage, and listening to you apologise for wasting the courts time, and be questioned over your faulty equipment, and asked how many other motorists you have been falsely accused”
Is that just too much of being a dick, and I should just send them the CCTV footage?
For the record, I am a sucker for obeying parking rules on private land. I always buy tickets as required, follow the rules, and do not overstay.
But for some reason this one has irked me…
It shows photos of my wife’s car entering the car park at about 9pm on a Thursday evening, and exiting at around 8:30am the next morning, Friday.
They therefore allege that we overstayed the 2 hour limit and owe them £90, or £45 if paid promptly.
The car did indeed enter and leave at those times pictured, but it also left 15 mins after the Thursday entry, and entered 20 mins before the Friday entry…
So it was 2 separate visits yet their cameras/software system has picked the first entry and the last exit.
Sorry if I somehow made that description complex.
I went to the online appeal for Horizon parking, and asked them to cancel the PCN as it was 2 separate visits, said their system is faulty, and informed them that I have CCTV and Ring footage from my house that shows the vehicle movements in line with the entry/exit timings at the car park, but more importantly shows the car parked on our drive when it was apparently left at the supermarket all night long.
They replied, basically saying they didn’t believe me, and that I would have to supply them with the videos from my home CCTV so they can consider my appeal.
Would it be unreasonable of me to reply like this:
“No, I am not wasting any more of my time on this matter. I have told you your system is mistaken or faulty, given you the explanation as to the actual movements of my car, and I will not use my spare time to locate, download, or send my private CCTV footage to you. If you wish to verify my story, you can check the Supermarket car park CCTV yourselves on your own time, or check the other images held by your own camera system at the times I have mentioned. If you decide to persue this matter, I will enjoy attending court, showing my CCTV footage, and listening to you apologise for wasting the courts time, and be questioned over your faulty equipment, and asked how many other motorists you have been falsely accused”
Is that just too much of being a dick, and I should just send them the CCTV footage?
For the record, I am a sucker for obeying parking rules on private land. I always buy tickets as required, follow the rules, and do not overstay.
But for some reason this one has irked me…
loskie said:
Just relay your story to the Supermarket Customer Service and ask them to sort it.
You shouldn't have to do Horizon's or the supermarket's job for them.
That’s a very valid point. I really shouldn’t have to spend any time dealing with a contractor of the supermarket after spending my money there.You shouldn't have to do Horizon's or the supermarket's job for them.
I will try that when I am in there this week.
I genuinely would be quite happy to attend court just to embarrass them, show my evidence, and question the accuracy of their camera systems, but I would also be slightly worried about getting some old duffer of a judge who accuses me of wasting the courts time becuase I could have just sent them my CCTV footage and had the thing dealt with well before court.
I’ve reviewed the Doorbell footage, and I really don’t see why I should give it to them, it features my wife and my toddler going to and from the car, having conversations which you can clearly hear, and is basically a glimpse into my private life on my private property.
I’m not precious about our privacy when out in public, but I just think Parking Horizon can do one over this matter.
What if I didn’t have CCTV or a Ring door bell and was falsely accused of this? Just bend over and pay up?
I’ve reviewed the Doorbell footage, and I really don’t see why I should give it to them, it features my wife and my toddler going to and from the car, having conversations which you can clearly hear, and is basically a glimpse into my private life on my private property.
I’m not precious about our privacy when out in public, but I just think Parking Horizon can do one over this matter.
What if I didn’t have CCTV or a Ring door bell and was falsely accused of this? Just bend over and pay up?
R6tty said:
Have you got proof of two separate visits? Till receipts would be best but bank details? Going in the shop and pointing out you have this proof, and you suggest they tell the parking company to lay off. It usaully does it.
Yes I have all the Tesco transactions easily viewable on our baking app. It shows the two visits.If that wasn’t enough, the video footage from Ring is clearly time and date stamped, shows us heading into the house carrying shopping from the car on both occasions. If that wasn’t enough, it clearly shows the car at home during the hours that it was allegedly parked overnight at Tesco.
I could solve this very easily by either sending the downloaded Ring footage to Horizon Parking, or telling the store to deal with it on my next visit.
But for some inescapable reason, I just want to take the piss out of them or embarrass them in some way. To make them sort their cameras out if nothing else.
Worse still, my wife came back from work today and the exact same thing had happened to a colleague of hers in the same car park. Visited two days in a row, then got sent a charge notice for staying 18 hours… luckily they also had CCTV and proved it to Horizon.
How many people have they sent a parking charge notice to that couldn’t prove car was at home becuase they don’t have CCTV or Internet banking?
OutInTheShed said:
Anyone who needs to go to a supermarket twice in 12 hours needs a £90 fine for being disorganised, or an amusing excuse.
The first visit was the weekly shop.
The second visit was my wife popping in there to get some birthday cake candles for our child’s birthday that day. We thought we had some at home but we couldn’t find them so she called in to the supermarket after the school run.
Is that a good enough excuse for you?
the-norseman said:
R6tty said:
Have you got proof of two separate visits? Till receipts would be best but bank details? Going in the shop and pointing out you have this proof, and you suggest they tell the parking company to lay off. It usaully does it.
Just to be a d1ck how does having proof you bought stuff prove your car has been there on 1 separate occasions. The OP could of driven there, bought some stuff, broke down and left car there, then come back in the morning and bought some more stuff while awating recovery.
Zeeky said:
You can't produce undisclosed evidence in court in the hope of a Perry Mason moment.
What did you think the response would be to ".. and I've got evidence to prove it." ?
It's just as easy to say you have evidence as it is to say there were two visits. The first adds nothing to the second.
Is it easier to complain to the store than provide the evidence?
You're understandably aggrieved that you have to use time and energy do deal with this but sooner or later you will have to if Horizon pursues it.
I realise I can’t just whip out undisclosed evidence in court.What did you think the response would be to ".. and I've got evidence to prove it." ?
It's just as easy to say you have evidence as it is to say there were two visits. The first adds nothing to the second.
Is it easier to complain to the store than provide the evidence?
You're understandably aggrieved that you have to use time and energy do deal with this but sooner or later you will have to if Horizon pursues it.
I have disclosed the evidence already by telling them, in writing (email) I have CCTV and Ring footage of my vehicle, parked on my property, at the times they say it was at Tesco.
They have said they don’t believe me. That seems to be a ‘them’ problem, not a ‘me’ problem.
As I have said, I could probably sort this in 5 mins at the customer service desk at Tesco, but part of me is being mischievous and wants to see if they willing to make any small effort whatsoever to review their own footage and images to see that I did not infringe their rules.
The onus seems to be entirely on me to prove to them that I am innocent, and prove to them that their tech is wonky, and I just don’t like that approach or attitude.
For those who are concerned I am getting angry, worked up, my blood is boiling, and that I should just hand the evidence over and move on with my life... Please do not worry.
As soon as I opened the letter from Horizon I just laughed as I knew immediately it was a cock up by them.
I knew that I could solve it in minutes, and that I would never be paying a charge.
It’s all good.
As I mentioned, they just irked me somewhat in their response, and I am doing this for my own amusement, to see how far they will go and what they will say.
Everyone needs a hobby right?
As soon as I opened the letter from Horizon I just laughed as I knew immediately it was a cock up by them.
I knew that I could solve it in minutes, and that I would never be paying a charge.
It’s all good.
As I mentioned, they just irked me somewhat in their response, and I am doing this for my own amusement, to see how far they will go and what they will say.
Everyone needs a hobby right?
Chaps,
Unfortunately we can put the pitchforks away.
Out of the blue, and without sending my second response to them, I get this:
Dear Appellant,
Thank you for your recent correspondence concerning the above referenced Parking Charge Notice.
Having fully reviewed the case, I can confirm the Parking Charge Notice has now been cancelled and no further action will be taken in this matter.
Horizon invests in both the technology and infrastructure required to manage parking facilities on behalf of its clients. As with any technology, errors can unfortunately occur. Whilst errors are mercifully rare, there are a number of possible reasons why a vehicle registration may be either missed or unreadable by an ANPR camera. These can range from another vehicle driving too closely to the photographed vehicle during busy periods, through to a number plate that is obscured due to poor weather conditions or dirt. It is apparent that a capture of your vehicle has been missed on this occasion. When problems are highlighted to us, such as in this scenario, we are able to investigate and apply remedy.
Please note that once the Parking Charge Notice is cancelled the contact details are removed from the Parking Charge Notice and will not be retained for any purpose or shared with third parties. We are, however, required to retain images and appeal correspondence for a period of 2 years by DVLA and the BPA and are not therefore able to delet e these from our system. You can review our privacy policy at https://horizonparking.co.uk/privacy-policy/ or you can request that a copy is sent to you in the post by contacting us at the address below, if you have any queries regarding your data.
Please therefore accept our sincerest apologies and also our thanks for highlighting the problem to us. Should you have any further queries, do not hesitate to contact our advice line for further assistance.
Kind Regards,
Horizon Parking
Unfortunately we can put the pitchforks away.
Out of the blue, and without sending my second response to them, I get this:
Dear Appellant,
Thank you for your recent correspondence concerning the above referenced Parking Charge Notice.
Having fully reviewed the case, I can confirm the Parking Charge Notice has now been cancelled and no further action will be taken in this matter.
Horizon invests in both the technology and infrastructure required to manage parking facilities on behalf of its clients. As with any technology, errors can unfortunately occur. Whilst errors are mercifully rare, there are a number of possible reasons why a vehicle registration may be either missed or unreadable by an ANPR camera. These can range from another vehicle driving too closely to the photographed vehicle during busy periods, through to a number plate that is obscured due to poor weather conditions or dirt. It is apparent that a capture of your vehicle has been missed on this occasion. When problems are highlighted to us, such as in this scenario, we are able to investigate and apply remedy.
Please note that once the Parking Charge Notice is cancelled the contact details are removed from the Parking Charge Notice and will not be retained for any purpose or shared with third parties. We are, however, required to retain images and appeal correspondence for a period of 2 years by DVLA and the BPA and are not therefore able to delet e these from our system. You can review our privacy policy at https://horizonparking.co.uk/privacy-policy/ or you can request that a copy is sent to you in the post by contacting us at the address below, if you have any queries regarding your data.
Please therefore accept our sincerest apologies and also our thanks for highlighting the problem to us. Should you have any further queries, do not hesitate to contact our advice line for further assistance.
Kind Regards,
Horizon Parking
FWIW said:
Boo!
I know. I was somewhat looking forward to a bigger and better argument with them.
The interesting thing is, if you go onto Pepipoo or Money Saving Expert, there are loads of threads where people have been sent a PCN for ‘double entry’ (Fnarr Fnarr) or ‘double dipping’ during a certain period of time, and yet when appealed, Horizon absolutely double down on it, telling the appellant that their system works perfectly and that whatever happens they are proceeding with the PCN, to court if required.
The key factor in these threads seems to be that the victim does not have home CCTV like I do, and therefore cannot prove their innocence.
Funny how when someone like me tells them straight that their system is faulty and states that I have oodles of video footage to prove it, they get all apologetic and say there must have been a ‘rare problem’. Admitting that faults do occur.
On some of the MSE threads there are some victims getting genuinely upset and stressed by it, and can’t afford to easily pay the charge. It isn’t pleasant.
Bullitt 1 said:
You don’t have to pay a PARKING CHARGE but you do have to pay a Penalty Notice
I wish people would stop trotting out this nonsense. It's this rubbish that ends up with people getting a court appearance or a CCJ as per this thread:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
You can refuse to pay anything you like, but don't come back and moan if it results in something worse happening. These parking companies can, and do, take people to court for the money if you don't pay or challenge the charge successfully. Not in every case of course, but do you want to be the unlucky one?
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