Oh goody, I've got myself a section 59.
Discussion
Well I had a fantastic evening last night. Went down to the local Tescos to do the shopping with the other half. Took the Clio cause it needed a bit of a run out. Parked up as normal and noticed a panda car cruising around but thought nothing of it. Came out about an hour later, noticed a small gathering of chav wagons at the other end of the car park which is nothing out of the ordinary so again I though nothing of it. Shopping in the away we went but didn't get out before the panda car we saw before came belting across the car park with the full show going. Naturally I stopped thinking it was just a routine check.
Got the tap on the window 'would you mind stepping out sir' (at least I was addressed properly but thats where the pleasantries ended) 'Would you mind telling me why you are driving around a car park at this time of night'? Slightly bemused I explained that I'd been shopping with the missus which we do a bit later than normal to miss the crowds (it was still only 8.30 though) to which I received a disbelieving look. I had to produce the receipt!
'We've had reports of loud music and engines being revved, nothing to do with you was it'? Showed the pc the scaffolding in the boot and then the switch panel where the stereo should be and reiterated the fact we'd been in the shop for the past hour.
'Your exhaust is quite loud though isn't it'. 'Not massively, no. It was measured at 89dB last time the car was scrutineered' Arguing was probably not the best thing to do seeing as the pc was determined to get me for something.
'Ah competition car is it then'? 'Yes I use it for road rallying (thinking he was taking an interest)'
'Well i'll have to do some checks then' He proceeded to check absolutely everything getting redder faced by the minute. Goes to have a word with his partner.
'Right sir, im issuing you a section 59 notice blah blah blah'.
'Umm whats that for then'?
'Using a competition vehicle on the road'
'Thats not illegal though is it, especially as said vehicle is used in open road events and scrutineered as such'
'That is a competition exhaust and is causing a disturbance'
'Fantastic. Is this going to cost me anything'?
'Not at the moment but if you get caught again blah blah blah'
'Well there we are, there will be a strongly worded letter on its way to your chief constable tomorrow morning, goodnight'
So there we are. Section 59'd for going shopping. Still only a year left at uni then we're off to whatever county will take us, thank god.
I guess its highly likely that if my letter falls on deaf ears then if I meet the same pc again, I'll have my car confiscated at which point I think I'll get the MSA involved.
Rant over. Sorry for the length, got a bit carried away. The law really is an ass.....
Got the tap on the window 'would you mind stepping out sir' (at least I was addressed properly but thats where the pleasantries ended) 'Would you mind telling me why you are driving around a car park at this time of night'? Slightly bemused I explained that I'd been shopping with the missus which we do a bit later than normal to miss the crowds (it was still only 8.30 though) to which I received a disbelieving look. I had to produce the receipt!
'We've had reports of loud music and engines being revved, nothing to do with you was it'? Showed the pc the scaffolding in the boot and then the switch panel where the stereo should be and reiterated the fact we'd been in the shop for the past hour.
'Your exhaust is quite loud though isn't it'. 'Not massively, no. It was measured at 89dB last time the car was scrutineered' Arguing was probably not the best thing to do seeing as the pc was determined to get me for something.
'Ah competition car is it then'? 'Yes I use it for road rallying (thinking he was taking an interest)'
'Well i'll have to do some checks then' He proceeded to check absolutely everything getting redder faced by the minute. Goes to have a word with his partner.
'Right sir, im issuing you a section 59 notice blah blah blah'.
'Umm whats that for then'?
'Using a competition vehicle on the road'
'Thats not illegal though is it, especially as said vehicle is used in open road events and scrutineered as such'
'That is a competition exhaust and is causing a disturbance'
'Fantastic. Is this going to cost me anything'?
'Not at the moment but if you get caught again blah blah blah'
'Well there we are, there will be a strongly worded letter on its way to your chief constable tomorrow morning, goodnight'
So there we are. Section 59'd for going shopping. Still only a year left at uni then we're off to whatever county will take us, thank god.
I guess its highly likely that if my letter falls on deaf ears then if I meet the same pc again, I'll have my car confiscated at which point I think I'll get the MSA involved.
Rant over. Sorry for the length, got a bit carried away. The law really is an ass.....
Home shopping ftw!
I could have understood a little bit if, god forbid, I had been with the group of chavs but I was at the other end of the car park. No 'throttle blipping' took place as ironically Im not a fan of drawing attention to the car plus I grew out of all that larking about a good few years ago.
The exhaust is grp N but with the cat left in so is louder than standard unfortunately.
I could have understood a little bit if, god forbid, I had been with the group of chavs but I was at the other end of the car park. No 'throttle blipping' took place as ironically Im not a fan of drawing attention to the car plus I grew out of all that larking about a good few years ago.
The exhaust is grp N but with the cat left in so is louder than standard unfortunately.
y2blade said:
gopher44 said:
'Your exhaust is quite loud though isn't it'. 'Not massively, no. It was measured at 89dB last time the car was scrutineered' Arguing was probably not the best thing to do seeing as the pc was determined to get me for something.
'Ah competition car is it then'? 'Yes I use it for road rallying (thinking he was taking an interest)'
'Well i'll have to do some checks then' He proceeded to check absolutely everything getting redder faced by the minute. Goes to have a word with his partner.
why did you tell him that?'Ah competition car is it then'? 'Yes I use it for road rallying (thinking he was taking an interest)'
'Well i'll have to do some checks then' He proceeded to check absolutely everything getting redder faced by the minute. Goes to have a word with his partner.
To be honest I was surprised he didn't twig earlier that it was a rally car, roll cage, bucket seats, harnesses, spots.....
ZOLLAR said:
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
ZOLLAR said:
gopher44 said:
y2blade said:
gopher44 said:
'Your exhaust is quite loud though isn't it'. 'Not massively, no. It was measured at 89dB last time the car was scrutineered' Arguing was probably not the best thing to do seeing as the pc was determined to get me for something.
'Ah competition car is it then'? 'Yes I use it for road rallying (thinking he was taking an interest)'
'Well i'll have to do some checks then' He proceeded to check absolutely everything getting redder faced by the minute. Goes to have a word with his partner.
why did you tell him that?'Ah competition car is it then'? 'Yes I use it for road rallying (thinking he was taking an interest)'
'Well i'll have to do some checks then' He proceeded to check absolutely everything getting redder faced by the minute. Goes to have a word with his partner.
To be honest I was surprised he didn't twig earlier that it was a rally car, roll cage, bucket seats, harnesses, spots.....
my insurer wouldn't cover a car for road rally use, Honestly interested in the car!Edit and im sure the OP would be wise enough to cover the reg plate if he posts pictures on the internet!
Edited by ZOLLAR on Tuesday 9th February 12:39
The car is fully insured for road use. I normally use the insurance provided by the event organisers usually provided by Locktons.I'll see if I can find some photos of it in its current state when I get home later on.
hman said:
I learnt that under questioning you answer honestly and concisely.
If they need to know more they will ask more questions.
Dont elaborate, if you do, the additional information that you give may be used against you.
Perhaps this would have made a difference. I would like to think so but would expect not. I've been lucky enough to have had only two previous encounters with the law in ten years of driving both of which, I hasten to add were much more pleasant affairs.If they need to know more they will ask more questions.
Dont elaborate, if you do, the additional information that you give may be used against you.
Holy crap! Just watched that video, I'm never talking to a policeman again! I know its yank law but still.
I would like to hear what Vonhosen has to say about this. I'm relatively new to ph but have read the odd thread with comments from him. Could be interesting.
Got a template letter from pepipoo all filled out and sent off the cc this afternoon. Watch this space...
I would like to hear what Vonhosen has to say about this. I'm relatively new to ph but have read the odd thread with comments from him. Could be interesting.
Got a template letter from pepipoo all filled out and sent off the cc this afternoon. Watch this space...
Ross1988 said:
I've not read the thread in its entirety, but was it traffic police who pulled you?
Good lord! Do you mean there are still such things?
Seriously, I drive around Swansea on a daily basis and are lucky to see any police presence. My other half has been driving from Swansea to Carmarthen and back (50ish mile round trip) for nearly three years and has only ever seen trafpol at accidents.
The particular officer in question was a local in a focus panda car.
Perhaps on the plus side, I was talking to a couple of the local lads at uni this morning and they said they'd heard about a number of people being stopped for no apparent reason and cautioned/s59'd/etc. Obviously I can't say what circumstances these where given out in but it could lend weight to my appeal if on particular pc decided to go on a power trip.
Having read the actual piece of legislation I'm really baffled at to why the pc chose s59. I'd only just got in the car and driven no more than 100 yards. Surely if the noise was an issue then it should have been breach of the peace or whatever similar applies to cars, no that I'm going to suggest that to them you understand
Thanks for all the positive comments. Its nice to know I'm not on my own in this.
^Slider^ said:
People need to get a grip.
I agree with that totally. I'm really not looking to start a war with the BIB here. I just want my record cleared and the officer responsible reprimanded in a suitable fashion, both are requested in my letter.I can see how, with really squinted eyes, my appearance and the vehicle I drive maybe/might/sort of fall into the boy racer stereotype.
Such a stereotype exists in great numbers in this area......maybe I was just unlucky.
Either way I'll be putting the standard exhaust back on the car later so I can drive it without having to worry so much. I know thats a victory for injustice at the moment but I don't think anyone has had the last laugh yet...
Interesting reading peoples point of view.
I take the whole exhaust thing like this.
The exhaust is a complete system from front to back.
What I have done in my case is replace a section of said system with a new item, the dimensions and construction of which, are as Renault intended with the right amount of silencer boxes and tail pipe size. The only thing that is different AFAIK is the silencers are straight through and baffle-less. As I see it the exhaust system hasn't been altered in any way.
This particular piece of legislation, I believe, is aimed at the younger generation who deem it necessary to hang 12 dustbins from the back bumper of a Saxo, not that it has ever been enforced correctly mind you.
I think now, that the pc thought he'd jump on one of the chavs leaving the car park, picked me, realised he got the wrong person but to save face had to throw something at me. Still totally wrong.
Speaking to one of my lecturers today, she said the police were at a fuel stop on road rally a little while ago waiting for some cars that had been complained about on the route (something which is taken very seriously by the competitors and organisers because of p.r. issues in the future). They had words and threatened the top three cars with s59's. The chairman of the organising club had to explain to the police that all the cars had passed scrutineering and were below the 95dB limit allowed and that finding parts to make the cars in question (all mk2 Escorts) any quieter would be nigh on impossible (you try finding a gearbox for a mk2 that isn't straight cut). The police around here really should know better and a lot of them do because these events happen very regularly without a problem. Still theses incidences happen from time to time.
I take the whole exhaust thing like this.
The exhaust is a complete system from front to back.
What I have done in my case is replace a section of said system with a new item, the dimensions and construction of which, are as Renault intended with the right amount of silencer boxes and tail pipe size. The only thing that is different AFAIK is the silencers are straight through and baffle-less. As I see it the exhaust system hasn't been altered in any way.
This particular piece of legislation, I believe, is aimed at the younger generation who deem it necessary to hang 12 dustbins from the back bumper of a Saxo, not that it has ever been enforced correctly mind you.
I think now, that the pc thought he'd jump on one of the chavs leaving the car park, picked me, realised he got the wrong person but to save face had to throw something at me. Still totally wrong.
Speaking to one of my lecturers today, she said the police were at a fuel stop on road rally a little while ago waiting for some cars that had been complained about on the route (something which is taken very seriously by the competitors and organisers because of p.r. issues in the future). They had words and threatened the top three cars with s59's. The chairman of the organising club had to explain to the police that all the cars had passed scrutineering and were below the 95dB limit allowed and that finding parts to make the cars in question (all mk2 Escorts) any quieter would be nigh on impossible (you try finding a gearbox for a mk2 that isn't straight cut). The police around here really should know better and a lot of them do because these events happen very regularly without a problem. Still theses incidences happen from time to time.
Seeing as this topic has died down now (not like a ph topic to go miles o/t now is it) I thought I'd let you guys know a bit more.
Just over a week after I sent the letter I received a reply from the Chief constable. To his credit he was most apologetic, saying, 'having reviewed the notes made by the officer in question, it would appear he acted in a unprofessional manner' and 'section 59 warnings are to be used if the vehicle is being driven in a manner likely to cause alarm, distress or annoyance. The officer noted that you provided proof that the car was stationary and unattended at the time of the alleged incident therefore a section 59 warning should not have been issued, and in this case It will be removed from both your personal and vehicles records'.
'South wales police have a good relationship with motor sport organisations in the area and are keen to support events and competitors blah blah blah ad nauseam'
So there we are. Another numpty officer made to look stupid by his CC.
Now all thats left is to find out where he lives and kick his back doors in, or however the saying goes
Just over a week after I sent the letter I received a reply from the Chief constable. To his credit he was most apologetic, saying, 'having reviewed the notes made by the officer in question, it would appear he acted in a unprofessional manner' and 'section 59 warnings are to be used if the vehicle is being driven in a manner likely to cause alarm, distress or annoyance. The officer noted that you provided proof that the car was stationary and unattended at the time of the alleged incident therefore a section 59 warning should not have been issued, and in this case It will be removed from both your personal and vehicles records'.
'South wales police have a good relationship with motor sport organisations in the area and are keen to support events and competitors blah blah blah ad nauseam'
So there we are. Another numpty officer made to look stupid by his CC.
Now all thats left is to find out where he lives and kick his back doors in, or however the saying goes
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