Interesting R620 for sale!
Discussion
Seems even Caterham think that the other dash layout is a poor as we all thought!
http://uk.caterhamcars.com/pre-owned/1066-seven-62...
I can't believe even cc can be that blinkered as to think that people will pay £50k for a car with the naff gauges they have on the press car!
http://uk.caterhamcars.com/pre-owned/1066-seven-62...
I can't believe even cc can be that blinkered as to think that people will pay £50k for a car with the naff gauges they have on the press car!
Edited by nigelpugh7 on Thursday 16th January 21:17
I don't understand what was wrong with the Stack dash layout in the first place?
I have had three Caterham's fitted with the stack dash, and it just seems to suit the race bred flavour of the R series cars.
I had a very good look at the blue 620r on the Caterham stand at Autosports at the weekend.
The three round gauges consist of the central rev counter, a fuel gauge and an oil pressure gauge.
I spent some time asking questions of the guys on the stand about the reasoning behind these gauges,,but they did not seem to know much about them though!
I asked why there was no oil temp gauge or shift lights? I explained that the first thing I do with my R500 when I go on a track day is scroll the display to the screen that shows oil pressure, oil temp and and water temp, then I use the Aces shift lights to let me know when to change gear.
I explained that I felt that was really needed on such a track oriented car.
The response was frankly laughable, " well we have had feedback from existing users that they don't like the stack dash, and no one uses the oil temp display, and there is no need for shift lights on the R620, as it accelerates so fast you would not have time to see them!"
At that point I walked away from the Caterham stand and did not return!
I have had three Caterham's fitted with the stack dash, and it just seems to suit the race bred flavour of the R series cars.
I had a very good look at the blue 620r on the Caterham stand at Autosports at the weekend.
The three round gauges consist of the central rev counter, a fuel gauge and an oil pressure gauge.
I spent some time asking questions of the guys on the stand about the reasoning behind these gauges,,but they did not seem to know much about them though!
I asked why there was no oil temp gauge or shift lights? I explained that the first thing I do with my R500 when I go on a track day is scroll the display to the screen that shows oil pressure, oil temp and and water temp, then I use the Aces shift lights to let me know when to change gear.
I explained that I felt that was really needed on such a track oriented car.
The response was frankly laughable, " well we have had feedback from existing users that they don't like the stack dash, and no one uses the oil temp display, and there is no need for shift lights on the R620, as it accelerates so fast you would not have time to see them!"
At that point I walked away from the Caterham stand and did not return!
k20erham said:
It almost states these chaps were true salesmen and had no concept of what the end user would acutually require, almost as bad as Caterham building the car R&D if any!!! etc and not being able to run it on Track/press release dates, makes what all of us that modify to the upper limits of performance look like super stars
I am inclined to agree!The first guy I spoke to did explain he was in marketing, and knew nothing about the production cars? I would have thought that a person working in marketing at Caterham cars would know everything anyone would ever ask on a trade show stand!
However he did go and find a so called sales person to answer my questions related to the dash layout and config options!
It was that so called sales guy who came up wit the previous statement about users not liking the Stack dash.
And guess what, he was such a good salesman, that he did not even know that I was an existing owner, and did not even ask my name, let alone take down my contact details!
thequietone said:
Oh dear, lets hope you were speaking to someone who was just there to 'man the stand' rather than any of the sales guys!
I too like the Stack unit but don't really have an issue with it not being included. The 'production' dash arrangement works fine (no oil temp though) and there is a shift light.
In between the rev counter and speedo lives a digital gear indicator that flashes when it's time to grab the next gear.
Yes a fair comment, I did not know if he was a proper sales guy or not, and as he did not introduce himself or even offer his name, I have to say I have no idea who he actually was.I too like the Stack unit but don't really have an issue with it not being included. The 'production' dash arrangement works fine (no oil temp though) and there is a shift light.
In between the rev counter and speedo lives a digital gear indicator that flashes when it's time to grab the next gear.
I do like the look of the dash in the 620r that is for sale, I actually quite lie the traditional 5 clock layout.
I don't under stand why any of the 620r cars we have seen so far are not fitted with the Aces shift lights though, they only cost about £260 for the Sureshift 2 system all in.
Surely CC can't be that tight on profit margins on the 620r that they have omitted them due to cost?
k20erham said:
Give the consumer what they want and let them pay for it, I wonder if the paddle shift/ flat shift will be offered as an option? works wonderfully with the Sadev, and protects it too from driver abuse, I took my gear lever off as dispite my best efforts I could never get it right.
Really? You took your gear shift lever off on a Sadev sequential box? So which Caterham do you have that has a Sadev box fitted to it?I believe that even with a paddle shift system, there was no way to select reverse, and you still needed the lever to engage reverse gear?
I could be wrong though, I only had the Quaife 60g Sequential box in my previous R500 , and that was not equipped with any paddle shift system.
SpeedYellow said:
Guessing the lack of the Stack is more to do with saving costs on the car over any other reasons.
And like you Nigel, I use oil temp and pressure all the time to work out when its warm enough to push and to keep an eye out for any issues. Would be very strange not to have the info in front of me.
As for too fast for shift lights... oh dear...
Yes a lot of comments have been bandied around to that effect, regarding the cost price of the Stack system to CC!And like you Nigel, I use oil temp and pressure all the time to work out when its warm enough to push and to keep an eye out for any issues. Would be very strange not to have the info in front of me.
As for too fast for shift lights... oh dear...
I was chatting to a well connected and informed person who is a supplier to CC, who told me that CC had asked Stack to get the cost of the system down to £500 net cost, but Stack said no way, and that was basically the start of a rift between CC and Stack.
There was just here say though, and you know that these stories get blown out of all proportion the more they are passed from person to person.
It does sound quite plausible though, just hope that it's not the end of Stack products in Caterhams in the future!
thequietone said:
YAWN....
Was enjoying that sensible discussion. Didn't take long for the 'we know best'/'our modified car is way better than..' comments to start rolling in.
I'm off.
Enjoy.
Really, I am sorry I did not realise I was doing that, just commenting on the R620 on sale at CC, and how it compared to my R500.Was enjoying that sensible discussion. Didn't take long for the 'we know best'/'our modified car is way better than..' comments to start rolling in.
I'm off.
Enjoy.
Sorry if i have made it boring for you!!
sfaulds said:
I'll take that bet - manning the Caterham stand at Autosport show ranks as one of the most tedious, p1ss-boiling days of my life. 8 hours on your feet with a never-ending queue of people to tell you what Caterham are doing wrong, and how they would do it better. Mix that with the 'how fast does it go mister' brigade, the 'it's not even got a stereo' muppets and all of the engineers I know at Caterham (all of them) could find something better to do with their time.
I agree Stuart, but I don't think ( I hope!) that I don't fall I to any of those categories, I was a potential customer with a genuine interest, and because of the lack of information made available, when I asked a genuine question, it does make me wonder what Caterham were thinking!Also the reason a company like CC attend show like this is for presence and PR right? Well what do you think threads like these, and peoples comments on such threads do for that PR?
I am just saying I wonder if they think these things through?
And I am not here to tell Caterham what they are doing wrong, and I don't profess to try and tell a company such as CC, or any company how to do it better!
But correct me if I am wrong, why when an existing and loyal,owner and customer comes on your stand, who has been a supporter and genuine customer for almost 20 years, and has spent the best part of £130k+ on the company product, do you not even do the most basic of sales jobs! and ask them why they want to know about X?
And at the very least take their name, and number and promise them you will call them back with the info the had the common decency to ask in all honestly of the comp at they thought might even care about them as a customer!
Sorry rant over,but I mean, really!!
k20erham said:
We all take our cars seriously and there is not really an viable option to CC when all is taken into account, presumably passion is what drives the company and the customers, return on their investment? spending enough to get it right 1st time? actually tooling up and making it? rather than buying in and assembling it? being at the mercy of suppliers and the accountants that put accounts on stop ETC, it's very very personal and I wonder with the 620R what the numbers are to break even? If you don't like the staffs attitude and it does look like it was not the best encounter then who knows what must be done, do Caterham really survive upon repeat business alone, or those with the money and the desire?As always perhaps the best way is to say YOU CAN HAVE ANYTHING YOU WANT, order it and build it, Euro babble permitting that is! No matter what, it's nice to be nice even if some are not, did I hear envy being mutted?
Sorry, your posts don't seem to make a lot of sense, perhaps it's your poor syntax and grammar, not sure but I am guessing English is not your first spoken language?So if that is the case, perhaps you can explain what you mean by what I assume would be " your envy being muted " which I might or might not have adjusted for correct English and grammar?
k20erham said:
The envy was of the people with negative vibes towards caterham and the exhibitors at the show! it's easy to put anything, down and hard to defend if your comunicating with a "muppet" which I think the Stand at the show must attract. But you are not and the CC Rep no matter what his position is within CC was should have been able to you were or could be genuine. That was my point when I talked about numbers and the bottom line. Matbe they just don't have to treat folk well, they sell all they can and get away with it? Did I hear they could/must try harder? Sorry English is not my first tongue true, I'm from Yorkshire.!!
Ok fair point, I have to agree, that any PR is bad PR,, and when it come to situations like this CC, have never done themselves any favours.In all honesty because the product has such cult status, I virtually sells itself, they don't really need skilled and experienced sales people, and in the twenty years I have dealt with CC south and midlands, that has almost always been the case!
Sorry was not meaning to be rude about your posting style, they were probably done like most of mine, when a few glasses of vin rouge have been consumed and you are less than capable, and if using an iPad like I mostly do that makes it even harder to get things looking perfect in type!
And there is nothin wrong with Yorkshire, my dear old mum was born and raised in Saltaire!
TeflonT said:
To the best of my knowledge, Caterham, like the majority of the motor industry, has never had a strategywhihc considers 1) how to sell effectively, 2) how to create a good customer experience. When it has happended, it has probably been accidental.
It's all about the bottom line at Caterham, and representation by individuals who do not understand how to determine real prospects from the chaf, and have no product knowledge beyond what could be read in the brochure is a great example of the "cost reduction over service" culture many of us have experienced over the years. This is why they will never become more than a niche company which struggles to survive.
Using Nige as an example ;-), he should have been easy prey. Lets face it, he's a succesful guy, got loads of capital tied up in an R500 which would make a suitable trade in/deposit, relishes recognition within the 7 community by buying the best/limited edition models. If ever there was someone for whom a 620R would be an easy sell, its Nige. It could even have the same colour scheme and same reg number as his current car, so Mrs Pugh wouldn't notice :-0 .
Have to agree Arnie old chap, but then we do have the benefit of working for major manufactures in the IT business, where lets face it,,if you don't bring your very best A game, then customers will vote with their feet!It's all about the bottom line at Caterham, and representation by individuals who do not understand how to determine real prospects from the chaf, and have no product knowledge beyond what could be read in the brochure is a great example of the "cost reduction over service" culture many of us have experienced over the years. This is why they will never become more than a niche company which struggles to survive.
Using Nige as an example ;-), he should have been easy prey. Lets face it, he's a succesful guy, got loads of capital tied up in an R500 which would make a suitable trade in/deposit, relishes recognition within the 7 community by buying the best/limited edition models. If ever there was someone for whom a 620R would be an easy sell, its Nige. It could even have the same colour scheme and same reg number as his current car, so Mrs Pugh wouldn't notice :-0 .
I suppose I am an easy target, but can't believe they did not try a bit harder.
As far as being someone who relishes being recognised as a peer in the seven community for having the best, I was not even sure I came across that way, but perhaps you have observed something I don't see myself. I do have a worrying personality triait that I seek perfection in all things, people and products, why would anyone not accept anything but the very best fro the products and the people who are selling the very best too!
They had an area setup a bit like a posh dining room with leather sofas etc, I assume it was reserved for VIP clients, but I did not see anyone sitting there, as it was roped off.
Now as far as getting a 620r in the same colour scheme as my current R500, so that Mrs P won't notice, now you might be on to something there!
TeflonT said:
Are you telling me you were denied access to the VIP area? Lets face it, you've on bought two R500's in the last 5 years. Perhaps if you'd leased half a dozen Airbus' you may have been more successful?
Yes I had assumed that area was reserved for Tony Fernandez bringing his F1 sponsors on to the stand!Of course he has leased more aeroplanes that most people, so perhaps that's what I need to do!
The funny thing was it was actually Tom who had noticed my car on the large plasma screen that was running a looped video of the Caterham DNA film when my car was with the F1 team at Jerez.
I commented to the marketing guy, that it was my car in the video etc etc, he did not even seem to know anything about it or be remotely interested!
tin duck dave said:
The area descibed as VIP area was used to offer a drink to people who identified themselves as 7 owners (as per the invitation on facebook) on the Friday I attended, don't know if the same applied on the weekend. Also had good conversations with clearly knowlegable staff that day - again it may be that busier public days over weekend meant more people manning the stand which could have diluted the knowledge base.
Perhaps it was because I was with my son Tom then, I also identified myself as an owner by showing my Caterham Lanyard and ignition immobiliser fob!I was offered a drink, but decided to only have a drink of water.
Perhaps you need to have a current order placed to get behind the velvet rope!
Oh well never mind, I was more concerned that the information that I most wanted to get a better understanding of was not available at the time!
All of the rhetoric has made me think about service levels from CC In general and more specifically CC Mids as my local supplier.
I was always very happy with the advice, support and assaitance I had Fromm Nick Potter at CC midlands, for many many years.
Of course neither nick or Brett for service are now employed by CC, so I can not rely on their personal service.
My real,worry is how CC has built is service model in light of all these changes.
As I have previously stated I believe I am quite a loyal and valuable CC customer, having built multiple cars, and purchased many cars and products over 20 years.
What really disappointed me was, not long after the management changes at CC, and the departure on Ansar and Nick, I got a call for the new sales but at CC Mids.
His call to me started as follows, " hello mr Pugh we have seen that you have downloaded information fro the CC website , is there anything I ca do to get you more info about caterham cars?"
I said thanks for the call, but know I think I am quite well informed, and if you car to check, I have purchased 5 new cars fro you directly, and always use you for servicing of those cars too.
His response was astounding And staggering in equal measures, he had no info about me as a customer ( really!) and was just responding to my web visit.
I politely mentio. You should check your database to see what car I had, and have previously owned.
His response was, of course let me see what I can find on our system, and I will call you straight back.
That was October 2013, and as of today I have no call or email fro CC Mids! or CC south.
Do I need to explain any more?
I was always very happy with the advice, support and assaitance I had Fromm Nick Potter at CC midlands, for many many years.
Of course neither nick or Brett for service are now employed by CC, so I can not rely on their personal service.
My real,worry is how CC has built is service model in light of all these changes.
As I have previously stated I believe I am quite a loyal and valuable CC customer, having built multiple cars, and purchased many cars and products over 20 years.
What really disappointed me was, not long after the management changes at CC, and the departure on Ansar and Nick, I got a call for the new sales but at CC Mids.
His call to me started as follows, " hello mr Pugh we have seen that you have downloaded information fro the CC website , is there anything I ca do to get you more info about caterham cars?"
I said thanks for the call, but know I think I am quite well informed, and if you car to check, I have purchased 5 new cars fro you directly, and always use you for servicing of those cars too.
His response was astounding And staggering in equal measures, he had no info about me as a customer ( really!) and was just responding to my web visit.
I politely mentio. You should check your database to see what car I had, and have previously owned.
His response was, of course let me see what I can find on our system, and I will call you straight back.
That was October 2013, and as of today I have no call or email fro CC Mids! or CC south.
Do I need to explain any more?
TeflonT said:
They ruin your falacio....
The reality is even funnier!based on a mistaken belief.
"fallacious arguments"
synonyms: erroneous, false, untrue, wrong, incorrect, faulty, flawed, inaccurate, inexact, imprecise, mistaken, misinformed, misguided, misleading, deceptive, delusive, delusory, illusory, sophistic, specious, fictitious, spurious, fabricated, distorted, made up, trumped up; More
antonyms: true, correct
TeflonT said:
We'd have been banned by now if this was on BC.
Exactly we are very dirty boys indeed as far as BC is concerned !We have not even mentioned af or unc thread priority!
And not forgetting we are total heathens for having the temerity to take our cars out in anything less than non wet conditions,,and perfect humidity of 60 degrees F , ('I hope that's correct in pounds, shilling and pence terms for 99% of the BC community!) ( oh and the other 1 % of Bc, who still believe it should be called the lotus 7 club only,,and think in terms of crowns and florins!)
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