First (secondhand) caterham.. too many questions!
Discussion
So, mostly convinced myself I want / can justify a caterham to myself. Probably at the cheaper end of the scale, probably a later k-series, or maybe an early sigma. I think I'm happy around the 120-140bhp range; coming from bikes even the very high bhp ones haven't really made that much of an impression, it's more about the turning and stopping..
Use will probably be 60:40 road/track.
On to the questions:
Wide vs Narrow track - much difference? Pros and cons?
5 vs 6 - I hear the 6 is closer stacked, maybe better on track, but thinking a taller final gear for road use (and more 5 speeders around)
Metric vs Imperial - does it really make a significant difference?
Cage - nice for track, but a bad idea for road - more from an head vs bars pov than practicality of getting in and out?
Anything I'm missing?
Cheers.
Use will probably be 60:40 road/track.
On to the questions:
Wide vs Narrow track - much difference? Pros and cons?
5 vs 6 - I hear the 6 is closer stacked, maybe better on track, but thinking a taller final gear for road use (and more 5 speeders around)
Metric vs Imperial - does it really make a significant difference?
Cage - nice for track, but a bad idea for road - more from an head vs bars pov than practicality of getting in and out?
Anything I'm missing?
Cheers.
Thanks for the replies..
I'm 5'9 and a 32 inch waist - hope I fit in a regular one OK, there aren't many SV's around.. (I'm fairly sure the one I sat in wasn't wide). G/f loves motorbikes, so a decent chance she'll like the cat too.. but she's a fairly waiflike runner type.
Not going to be a motorway car, but I do intend to take it to LeMans and suchlike, hence don't want it to be too ridiculous cruising. Can live with the cage from a convenience point of view, but thanks for confirming my thought that it requires helmets really.
S3 - that's just a 'normal' chassis rather than the wider one right?
Shrink - sounds like you've gone through exactly the same list.. love the colour scheme and a good point about the apollo tank. Rude to ask what you paid?
How to recognise lowered floors, and what difference does it make - sit lower, or just more pedal box room.
Lastly, Master Bean.. dunno if its your car; I'd look but it's a closed facebook group and I'm not joining just to have a squizz
Thanks all.
Mark.
I'm 5'9 and a 32 inch waist - hope I fit in a regular one OK, there aren't many SV's around.. (I'm fairly sure the one I sat in wasn't wide). G/f loves motorbikes, so a decent chance she'll like the cat too.. but she's a fairly waiflike runner type.
Not going to be a motorway car, but I do intend to take it to LeMans and suchlike, hence don't want it to be too ridiculous cruising. Can live with the cage from a convenience point of view, but thanks for confirming my thought that it requires helmets really.
S3 - that's just a 'normal' chassis rather than the wider one right?
Shrink - sounds like you've gone through exactly the same list.. love the colour scheme and a good point about the apollo tank. Rude to ask what you paid?
How to recognise lowered floors, and what difference does it make - sit lower, or just more pedal box room.
Lastly, Master Bean.. dunno if its your car; I'd look but it's a closed facebook group and I'm not joining just to have a squizz
Thanks all.
Mark.
Thanks (again) for all the comments - been travelling for a week and just catching up..
Budget is probably capped at 15k. I would like an LSD, although having been in a non LSD car with a regular driver I didn't feel the lack held it back.. then had a ride with someone who could really pedal and kinda saw the point, but I'm not sure I'll be able to push that hard - I don't see it as a dealbreaker. That was a 6 speed car, so hard to compare.. but the truth is I can't see me getting a 6 speed or an LSD at my budget.
I'm also looking for something a bit tidy rather than the ex-racer vibe. I'm more inclined towards something tidy that then needs changing/upgrading oily bits than something with all the right mechanicals that needs a repaint.. perhaps because I'd be happy enough swapping a box myself, but paint is beyond my scope (and expensive).
Budget is probably capped at 15k. I would like an LSD, although having been in a non LSD car with a regular driver I didn't feel the lack held it back.. then had a ride with someone who could really pedal and kinda saw the point, but I'm not sure I'll be able to push that hard - I don't see it as a dealbreaker. That was a 6 speed car, so hard to compare.. but the truth is I can't see me getting a 6 speed or an LSD at my budget.
I'm also looking for something a bit tidy rather than the ex-racer vibe. I'm more inclined towards something tidy that then needs changing/upgrading oily bits than something with all the right mechanicals that needs a repaint.. perhaps because I'd be happy enough swapping a box myself, but paint is beyond my scope (and expensive).
Smitters said:
I'd have thought £15k would get you a very good k series car and I've definitely seen modified non-R cars with ~150bhp, lsd and various carbon bits pop up below that.
I am indeed now on the facebook group mentioned.. but I'm still seeing a lack of 6 speed and/or LSD cars. It's not so much that they're more expensive, I'm just not seeing cars available with those things (other than the orange one.. which I want to want but just isn't apealing to me!)Follow up question..
So I've looked at a few, and I guess I'm conditioned to buying 'normal' cars, where I'd always look for a solid history file. Now I guess I didn't expect a book with stamps, but at least a fairly solid pile of receipts. This doesn't seem to be the case.. is this normal?
In this case I'm pretty happy the cars are sound, it's more a resale concern.
Cheers
So I've looked at a few, and I guess I'm conditioned to buying 'normal' cars, where I'd always look for a solid history file. Now I guess I didn't expect a book with stamps, but at least a fairly solid pile of receipts. This doesn't seem to be the case.. is this normal?
In this case I'm pretty happy the cars are sound, it's more a resale concern.
Cheers
That (orange) one already came up earlier I hear ya, but as it's primarily a toy I want it to be nice, and I think it's going to take longer for me to get frustrated with (say) an open diff than it is for me to look at a slightly battered car and feel dissatisfied.
Considered the 1.4, but that seems like a step too far down in power.. and yes, PT have some interesting cars.. mostly ex-racecar, hence history question
Problem is it's a fair chunk of cash to me and I'm partly justifying it on the idea that the resale value on caterhams seems to be pretty decent. I have other folks telling me not to look at anything south of 200hp, and to buy a westfield! Historically I seem to buy at the wrong time, just before cars become unpopular / values plumet (impreza turbo, 986 boxster). I'm also a little unsure if I'll gel with it, but I do like the light, involving and analogue ethos generally.. and I've tracked some quite quick bikes (but falling off them hurts), so not much is going to blow me away in terms of acceleration.. basically I'm getting analysis paralysis
Even considering looking at elises.. or just giving up on the idea entirely!
I hear ya, but as it's primarily a toy I want it to be nice, and I think it's going to take longer for me to get frustrated with (say) an open diff than it is for me to look at a slightly battered car and feel dissatisfied.Considered the 1.4, but that seems like a step too far down in power.. and yes, PT have some interesting cars.. mostly ex-racecar, hence history question
Problem is it's a fair chunk of cash to me and I'm partly justifying it on the idea that the resale value on caterhams seems to be pretty decent. I have other folks telling me not to look at anything south of 200hp, and to buy a westfield! Historically I seem to buy at the wrong time, just before cars become unpopular / values plumet (impreza turbo, 986 boxster). I'm also a little unsure if I'll gel with it, but I do like the light, involving and analogue ethos generally.. and I've tracked some quite quick bikes (but falling off them hurts), so not much is going to blow me away in terms of acceleration.. basically I'm getting analysis paralysis
Even considering looking at elises.. or just giving up on the idea entirely!
Thanks - far from being too long, thoughts are very much appreciated. Elise dance for exactly the same reasons
I know I'll drive whatever hard on track; I'm congenitally incapable of not doing so, afraid an elise is gonna leave me wishing I had a caterham! Then again I loved my old mx5 more than anything I've owned!
I know I'll drive whatever hard on track; I'm congenitally incapable of not doing so, afraid an elise is gonna leave me wishing I had a caterham! Then again I loved my old mx5 more than anything I've owned!
Edited by upsidedownmark on Tuesday 14th March 11:43
Lots to think about there.. thanks.
Orange car: I like Tillets and LSD, those I think would 'enhance' my enjoyment. More power.. maybe, but a couple of seconds a lap faster, is it really going to change the game - probably not. Downsides, I hate the colour, and for me to be happy the scuffs and any dents would need to be storted, replace cage with an FIA bar, respray that isn't orange, cover the tunnel and get rid of all the bare ally inside, plus sort out the faded dash.
Rightly or wrongly, I do care about the overall condition, not just mechanical, and all that sounds like far too much trouble tbh
Red car - very interesting.. although that's more than I want to spend. How robust is a 200hp+ k-series, I'm guessing the occasional rebuild is needed, north of 100bhp/litre for an na engine? Would rather have something relatively bombproof, but otherwise looks great.
Orange car: I like Tillets and LSD, those I think would 'enhance' my enjoyment. More power.. maybe, but a couple of seconds a lap faster, is it really going to change the game - probably not. Downsides, I hate the colour, and for me to be happy the scuffs and any dents would need to be storted, replace cage with an FIA bar, respray that isn't orange, cover the tunnel and get rid of all the bare ally inside, plus sort out the faded dash.
Rightly or wrongly, I do care about the overall condition, not just mechanical, and all that sounds like far too much trouble tbh
Red car - very interesting.. although that's more than I want to spend. How robust is a 200hp+ k-series, I'm guessing the occasional rebuild is needed, north of 100bhp/litre for an na engine? Would rather have something relatively bombproof, but otherwise looks great.
Crept a bit, then crept back. It's the one with the white wheels (which may have to change). Smart enough, but not too perfect to use - the other one was freshly painted and for some reason I'm more inclined towards a k than a sigma (tho it'd be nice if the exhaust was on my side with the k.. hey ho).
Indeed.. the girl loves fast things including the back of a bike, but isn't a particular fan of noise, plus she's a bit disaster prone with anything mechanical, hence having the loud hot bit on my side of the car might have been tactically smarter, but hey ho.. can't wait to actually get my paws on it now
After 3 months with the car, and my first track day, thought it'd be interesting to close this out with the benefit of hindsight..
First: Love the car. No real regrets, although a couple have since come up that have pinged the 'wish I'd seen that' button, I'm not unhappy - it's great fun, and I think it looks lovely. Yes, I'm contemplating some upgrades, but they'll be drip fed, where I'd have struggled to justify re-painting a car which had the right mechanical spec. Mrs isn’t a car person, but she loves it and asks if we can take it for a run..
I didn't last long before putting an LSD in it. More than any other car I've driven, it was very keen to spin the unloaded wheel. Combination of being light and a de-dion being rather less than independent I guess. Cost me 600 for a second hand, just serviced zf, with installation by Phil. I did the rest (housing out and back in) which wasn't too bad, and a nice way to get to know the car. I've been lucky in that the ZF is no noisier than the old open diff. No clunks etc. Yes I was probably driving like a tw*t… pre-diff a big shove of throttle would move the back, then it would come back in. Post diff it moves on lighter throttle applications, but is pleasingly linear.
I don’t know where I saw someone say sevens intrinsically understeer.. but I seem to have oversteer everywhere. Half thinking I should look at the setup as on track I didn’t feel like the front end was doing much work at all.. but it’s hilarious fun
Glad I have the 5 speed. Yes on the recent trackday I found a few corners were a bit 'in between gears', no doubt the 6 would have fared better.. but I'd struggle with the 6 speed’s shorter gearing on road, and like it or not, there are occasions where motorways to get to blatting places are unavoidable.
No idea why folks say the ‘k’ is torqueless. Mine does have a kmaps ecu, but there’s a ton of midrange and it seems to be running out of puff at about 6500. Anything from 2k up is fine, doesn’t feel at all ‘cammy’. I may be thinking about cams and a decent exhaust (4:1 long or 4-2-1).. but mainly ‘cos I have the urge to fiddle.. I can’t say I’ve felt it to be lacking in go at all. I’d like the exhaust to be a bit quieter (weird I know!). I’m also on the lookout for tillets. The leather seats are fine on road, but I did find I was moving around quite a bit on track. Did I mention that it’s epic on track?
Think that’s about it really.. Also very pleased I bought from Ian / PT. Few niggles that I missed when I did my lookover were addressed without quibble.
First: Love the car. No real regrets, although a couple have since come up that have pinged the 'wish I'd seen that' button, I'm not unhappy - it's great fun, and I think it looks lovely. Yes, I'm contemplating some upgrades, but they'll be drip fed, where I'd have struggled to justify re-painting a car which had the right mechanical spec. Mrs isn’t a car person, but she loves it and asks if we can take it for a run..
I didn't last long before putting an LSD in it. More than any other car I've driven, it was very keen to spin the unloaded wheel. Combination of being light and a de-dion being rather less than independent I guess. Cost me 600 for a second hand, just serviced zf, with installation by Phil. I did the rest (housing out and back in) which wasn't too bad, and a nice way to get to know the car. I've been lucky in that the ZF is no noisier than the old open diff. No clunks etc. Yes I was probably driving like a tw*t… pre-diff a big shove of throttle would move the back, then it would come back in. Post diff it moves on lighter throttle applications, but is pleasingly linear.
I don’t know where I saw someone say sevens intrinsically understeer.. but I seem to have oversteer everywhere. Half thinking I should look at the setup as on track I didn’t feel like the front end was doing much work at all.. but it’s hilarious fun
Glad I have the 5 speed. Yes on the recent trackday I found a few corners were a bit 'in between gears', no doubt the 6 would have fared better.. but I'd struggle with the 6 speed’s shorter gearing on road, and like it or not, there are occasions where motorways to get to blatting places are unavoidable.
No idea why folks say the ‘k’ is torqueless. Mine does have a kmaps ecu, but there’s a ton of midrange and it seems to be running out of puff at about 6500. Anything from 2k up is fine, doesn’t feel at all ‘cammy’. I may be thinking about cams and a decent exhaust (4:1 long or 4-2-1).. but mainly ‘cos I have the urge to fiddle.. I can’t say I’ve felt it to be lacking in go at all. I’d like the exhaust to be a bit quieter (weird I know!). I’m also on the lookout for tillets. The leather seats are fine on road, but I did find I was moving around quite a bit on track. Did I mention that it’s epic on track?
Think that’s about it really.. Also very pleased I bought from Ian / PT. Few niggles that I missed when I did my lookover were addressed without quibble.
Pretty sure it's not repackable, nor do I think it's particularly noisy (by caterham standards). 'tis the standard roadsport 4 weedy primaries into a single exit through the sideskin job, with a cat. Lead to believe that it's rather restrictive and that there's not much point in doing much with the engine without solving that. My concern more is if I pick up a 'better' system that it's loud af. Don't really want it too droney on road, nor to be worrying about passing noise tests.
Good to know on the 6 point. No more trackdays planned right now, need to sort that
Good to know on the 6 point. No more trackdays planned right now, need to sort that
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