Horrendous transmission noises in a selection of Caterham's
Discussion
I am now long in the tooth and probably past Caterham 7 motoring.
Some years ago in my youth I was fortunate enough to own a Lotus 7 with Holbay Lotus twin cam (around 105 BPH, one of the first TC1) the car had a solid rear axle and A frame with a 4 speed gearbox. The second car I owned was similar but had a 150 BPH Lotus twin cam engine; both cars drove very well with no excessive transmission noise or diff wine.
I recently had the desire to re live the Lotus experience and purchased a 140 BHP K series Caterham seven with De Dion rear axle and standard diff and 5 speed box. The car was about 17 years old with circa sub 30,000 miles and appeared in good condition. The transmission noise on the overrun was horrendous and sounded like a bag of nails in the transmission, but no whine. I thought that perhaps a new car would be better all round, so purchased a brand new 360 S SV Caterham. It very quickly became evident that the transmission was equally as bad as the old car, with additional panel chassis resonance. The backlash was excessive and lead to uncontrollable clonking and again terrible grinding noises on the overrun. The dealer merely replied that ‘they all do that’ which they should not!). All of this completely spoiled the driving pleasure of the car. I was subsequently told that I should have stuck with an older car which did not exhibit these characteristics. After selling the new car (and losing a substantial sum of money) I foolishly purchased a third Caterham, a 140 BHP roadsport (2006, 12,000 miles) with six speed box. This car, although did not have transmission backlash and chatter, had a diff/gearbox whine that was intolerable and unfortunately the car had to go.
There is no doubt that the driving experience (transmission problem noise apart) is wonderful, However I really wonder how people can put up with or accept the transmission noise aspects that as are now apparent, ( apart from on the track).
I do not see why a Caterham cannot be produced with the relatively low level of transmission noise which the earlier cars had. It may be that the current low powered Caterham’s are acceptable in this respect, but, drum brakes, skinny tyres and relatively low power output are not an option to some. Excuses like sitting on top of the diff and lack of sound insulation are not really appropriate as other ‘stripped out’ cars such as the Lotus Elise and other kit cars do not seem to suffer these problems.
Just my observations, others views would be welcome.
Some years ago in my youth I was fortunate enough to own a Lotus 7 with Holbay Lotus twin cam (around 105 BPH, one of the first TC1) the car had a solid rear axle and A frame with a 4 speed gearbox. The second car I owned was similar but had a 150 BPH Lotus twin cam engine; both cars drove very well with no excessive transmission noise or diff wine.
I recently had the desire to re live the Lotus experience and purchased a 140 BHP K series Caterham seven with De Dion rear axle and standard diff and 5 speed box. The car was about 17 years old with circa sub 30,000 miles and appeared in good condition. The transmission noise on the overrun was horrendous and sounded like a bag of nails in the transmission, but no whine. I thought that perhaps a new car would be better all round, so purchased a brand new 360 S SV Caterham. It very quickly became evident that the transmission was equally as bad as the old car, with additional panel chassis resonance. The backlash was excessive and lead to uncontrollable clonking and again terrible grinding noises on the overrun. The dealer merely replied that ‘they all do that’ which they should not!). All of this completely spoiled the driving pleasure of the car. I was subsequently told that I should have stuck with an older car which did not exhibit these characteristics. After selling the new car (and losing a substantial sum of money) I foolishly purchased a third Caterham, a 140 BHP roadsport (2006, 12,000 miles) with six speed box. This car, although did not have transmission backlash and chatter, had a diff/gearbox whine that was intolerable and unfortunately the car had to go.
There is no doubt that the driving experience (transmission problem noise apart) is wonderful, However I really wonder how people can put up with or accept the transmission noise aspects that as are now apparent, ( apart from on the track).
I do not see why a Caterham cannot be produced with the relatively low level of transmission noise which the earlier cars had. It may be that the current low powered Caterham’s are acceptable in this respect, but, drum brakes, skinny tyres and relatively low power output are not an option to some. Excuses like sitting on top of the diff and lack of sound insulation are not really appropriate as other ‘stripped out’ cars such as the Lotus Elise and other kit cars do not seem to suffer these problems.
Just my observations, others views would be welcome.
I think you have hit the nail on the head, isolating the diff from the chassis is probably the answer, all they have to do now is find a way of doing it again! The ear defenders are a good idea, I did try the old fashioned ear plugs but seemed to make the situation worse; but although your solution does the job, it would be nice if Caterham could solve the problem mechanically or by design There is also the problem of the backlash and the clonking which is difficult to avoid even with very careful clutch control in heavy traffic.
Very interesting and useful comments to date.
The first car ( 17 year old 1.8 Roadsport) I did try but the terrible grinding noise on a trailing throttle only became apparent when pressing on. The new car, the dealer was not too keen on it being driven as it was a new car, however the roads were also wet and it was only driven a few hundred yards, ( and I was really hoping that the transmission would be Ok since it was a new car.) I really should have learnt my lesson by now, but the third car I drove only for a short time and seemed acceptable, however the whine became very apparent after a service and a longer drive home.
I think the fact that the older previous Sevens ( 105 and 150 bhp) with the solid rear axle were fine and was the experience I had thought I would be able to re live!.
The first car ( 17 year old 1.8 Roadsport) I did try but the terrible grinding noise on a trailing throttle only became apparent when pressing on. The new car, the dealer was not too keen on it being driven as it was a new car, however the roads were also wet and it was only driven a few hundred yards, ( and I was really hoping that the transmission would be Ok since it was a new car.) I really should have learnt my lesson by now, but the third car I drove only for a short time and seemed acceptable, however the whine became very apparent after a service and a longer drive home.
I think the fact that the older previous Sevens ( 105 and 150 bhp) with the solid rear axle were fine and was the experience I had thought I would be able to re live!.
To fill in a gap I am now 70 years old and bought my first two cars with the solid axle at 30 !
The right foot does solve a lot of problems, it is just those times when stuck in slow moving traffic and on and off the throttle, or really hammering it and backing off between corners.
Many of you have obviously found the solution with ear plugs, ( but it would add to the driving experience , at least on the road) if some of the noise could be sorted
The right foot does solve a lot of problems, it is just those times when stuck in slow moving traffic and on and off the throttle, or really hammering it and backing off between corners.
Many of you have obviously found the solution with ear plugs, ( but it would add to the driving experience , at least on the road) if some of the noise could be sorted
Tom,
I think that's great you have solved the problem, must be great to be able to make good progress with a quiet transmission.
If the problem is as common as it appears to be, instead of dealers saying ',they all do that sir' why don't they apply Toms's fix to the cars, it would help a lot of drivers suffering with the problem, ( some owners might not have the technical knowledge that Tom has.) I know some say that the noises are part of the experience but not for everyone!
I think that's great you have solved the problem, must be great to be able to make good progress with a quiet transmission.
If the problem is as common as it appears to be, instead of dealers saying ',they all do that sir' why don't they apply Toms's fix to the cars, it would help a lot of drivers suffering with the problem, ( some owners might not have the technical knowledge that Tom has.) I know some say that the noises are part of the experience but not for everyone!
Thanks to all for a stimulating discussion.
My cars did not have LSD as I was told that they tended to be more noisy especially for the road. I have to agree that on the track noise generally is not a consideration, handling and lap times are the key issues, however when the cars need to be used on congested roads then excessive transmission noise
( engine and induction noises sound great) can be tiring after a while.
I have been told that the older cars are quieter with regard to diff and gearbox noise and I think many of you agree, maybe one day I will try again, at the present I am driving a supercharged Lotus Elise, and although it does not have the Seven's ability is at least quiet!
I do have sympathy with those owners of sevens with noisy transmission. Which in fact made me give up
Many suffer in (silence!) or try to block out the noise with head sets etc.
There are a few lucky owners, usually in older generation cars where there does not seem to be a problem. I know it makes little difference on a track where performance is the key issue, however for those who want cruising and or fast road use it can completely spoil the drive. Many make excuses that it is part of the character and that you are sitting next to the diff and gear box but it seems especially to be a problem in sevens (although my previous twin cams with live rear axle were ok). The exhaust noise or the induction noise from roller barrels or carburettor trumpets are great sounds IMO and are not part of the problem. In this day and age it should be possible to produce diffs and gear boxes that don't wine and chatter,furthermore some of these noises which we accept in sevens would not be tolerated in other cars.
I wish you all the best in your quest for quieter transmission.
Many suffer in (silence!) or try to block out the noise with head sets etc.
There are a few lucky owners, usually in older generation cars where there does not seem to be a problem. I know it makes little difference on a track where performance is the key issue, however for those who want cruising and or fast road use it can completely spoil the drive. Many make excuses that it is part of the character and that you are sitting next to the diff and gear box but it seems especially to be a problem in sevens (although my previous twin cams with live rear axle were ok). The exhaust noise or the induction noise from roller barrels or carburettor trumpets are great sounds IMO and are not part of the problem. In this day and age it should be possible to produce diffs and gear boxes that don't wine and chatter,furthermore some of these noises which we accept in sevens would not be tolerated in other cars.
I wish you all the best in your quest for quieter transmission.
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