How many HP is enough?

[antonio.cocchi]

I know, hp is never enough, but...
Road use (italian's Alps and Appennini) and maybe a couple of track day. Which is the right Power? Is 130/140 enough for not to be bored? 200?

[antonio.cocchi]

Discombobulate said:

antonio.cocchi said:

I know, hp is never enough, but...
Road use (italian's Alps and Appennini) and maybe a couple of track day. Which is the right Power? Is 130/140 enough for not to be bored? 200?

I used to think 110 was a lot (Mk1 GTI) but it's amazing how you get used to more (560 in my latest car - albeit much heavier than the Golf). I think 300 is my min now for daily.

I'm Just refering in a Caterham or other kit car, wow, 300 on 500kg must be funny😬

[antonio.cocchi]

Turn7 said:

Mine has 150 and thats fine, more HP could make potentially more overtakes an option, but thats about it on the road......

[antonio.cocchi]

ForzaGilles said:

I would say for road use, 160-170bhp is enough - if you intend to track it, 200bhp+. 160bhp to 200bhp doesn't sound like that much, but I swapped out my 1.6 160bhp K-Series for a VHPD 200bhp K-Series and it's quite a big difference - I remember the first drive after the engine swap vividly

[antonio.cocchi]

Amris said:

I would say between 180-220 for road and track, maybe 180-200bhp in a k series, or 200-220 in the later Duratec's as they are a fair bit heavier.

Also helps to have some extra oomph if you have passenger and boot full when touring :-)

Forgot to say
I have to buy at least a 20YO car

[antonio.cocchi]

Amris said:

i'd definitely say Superlight R then :-)

[antonio.cocchi]

jimPH said:

I had 220, but it was lacking, so upped it to 270 and that was much bigger improvement. The only problem was i added a 6 speed sequential, fully stripped and bare bones carbon trimming so it was, how can i put it, a bit harsh. As such, driving was fun, but any more than an hour or so and it was tiring. Always felt a bit too highly strung too and mad me sweat on account of breaking lots of engines, so i sold it.

Was a great car, but if i got another one, it would be geared more towards road use so i can enjoy it more.

Which engine?

[antonio.cocchi]

BertBert said:

For me I'm happy with k series supersport levels of power, so max 140. I've been up to 230, then down again.

The concept that tracks are boring unless you up the hp is a strange concept to me. straights are inherently dull so having 260 bhp or more doesn't make them more interesting.

Reaching the available grip on corners is where the fun is, not mega acceleration for me.

YMMV
Bert

[antonio.cocchi]

PiersR said:

In all the old reviews, the sweet spot was always the R300K with 160 BHP. If you can get a K series with this, it will be perfect. However, 130 - 150 BHP with a Superlight or Roadsport will also be pretty rapid. Although very high power is fun, you will have to maintain it more and reliability could be an issue. My advice is to get a standard car and work from there. There are plenty of Caterham Owners in Italy as they have a great meeting there once a year. You should make contact with them for information. They may even know of a car for sale that may suit you.

Price in Italy are crazy and there are not a lot of choice. I will pick up a from UK.😉

[antonio.cocchi]

jimPH said:

antonio.cocchi said:

jimPH said:

I had 220, but it was lacking, so upped it to 270 and that was much bigger improvement. The only problem was i added a 6 speed sequential, fully stripped and bare bones carbon trimming so it was, how can i put it, a bit harsh. As such, driving was fun, but any more than an hour or so and it was tiring. Always felt a bit too highly strung too and mad me sweat on account of breaking lots of engines, so i sold it.

Was a great car, but if i got another one, it would be geared more towards road use so i can enjoy it more.

Which engine?

2.0 Duratec, 54mm raceline bodies, big valve hi port head, dry sump, saenz rods, hi comp pistons, kent cams plus various other bits. I was going to put extensions on the trumpets and it could have done with a good 4-2-1 exhaust instead of the 4-1, but it was pretty fruity.

Wow...
Reliability?

[antonio.cocchi]

Murph7355 said:

BertBert said:

...
The concept that tracks are boring unless you up the hp is a strange concept to me. straights are inherently dull so having 260 bhp or more doesn't make them more interesting....

The one time you want more is when on a track day with heavy metal that is hopeless around corners but demonic down straights.

I remember being in my 140bhp 7 on track with a Cerbera and experiencing precisely this. It was getting in the way on the twisty parts, then leaving me for dead on the straights and the process would repeat.

Of course I could hold right back to gain space...but before very long at all I'd be on its tail and the same thing would repeat.

200bhp, plus more practice, saw an end to that.

This is in a K-series car before the Duratec era. Mine was a home brew 200bhp car (DVA head etc) and much more civilised than Caterham's own versions. Eminently usable on the road.

Go much higher in a K-series and usability diminishes quickly IME. Duratecs may be different (never driven one) but a K is nice and light and they sound great on throttle bodies.

I'm in love with a Supersport K 140hp, 5 Speed. What the limit of those engine, without lost reliability, because for sure, at the beginning will be enough but I know myself, I will di something on it After a couple of year!

[antonio.cocchi]

Eugene7 said:

Eugene is 210bhp (well, was when last on the rollers...).

I've had the car for some 35+years, and it started life as a 110bhp xflow.

It's now a rather modified Zetec, still with the Ital live axle, but with LSD and stronger drive shafts/bearings, as well as BGH 5 speed box.

It is also Brooklands Aero, and has been for years.

It is used all years round, and has done many 100k miles, in all weathers, from simple runs to the shops, as well as long tours around Europe (Google YouTube for Le BOG Club...).

Anyway, a long way round to say 200(ish) really is the sweet spot for me.

??

Thanks for contribution!

[antonio.cocchi]

keo said:

I had a short test drive in a 270 today. First time I have driven a Caterham and it wasn’t a long drive. It drove very nice but I did think it was a little slow. I had a passenger in. I looked at a 420 when I got back to the showroom.

Slow??? Really?
What's your actual drive?

[antonio.cocchi]

jimPH said:

antonio.cocchi said:

jimPH said:

antonio.cocchi said:

jimPH said:

I had 220, but it was lacking, so upped it to 270 and that was much bigger improvement. The only problem was i added a 6 speed sequential, fully stripped and bare bones carbon trimming so it was, how can i put it, a bit harsh. As such, driving was fun, but any more than an hour or so and it was tiring. Always felt a bit too highly strung too and mad me sweat on account of breaking lots of engines, so i sold it.

Was a great car, but if i got another one, it would be geared more towards road use so i can enjoy it more.

Which engine?

2.0 Duratec, 54mm raceline bodies, big valve hi port head, dry sump, saenz rods, hi comp pistons, kent cams plus various other bits. I was going to put extensions on the trumpets and it could have done with a good 4-2-1 exhaust instead of the 4-1, but it was pretty fruity.

Wow...
Reliability?

It was relativelyreliable in my ownership, but I've had bad experiences which raised my doubts. Would overcool in colder weather, as I had a ducted nose, so I opted for a modien oil cooler and ditched the oil to air. Also had the electric water pump as they cavitate at high revs and I was pulling 9k at full chat.

But it was all a bit highly strung and my confidence waned, I guess I went a bit too far in the pursuit of power and I lost driveability and that relaxing sense of enjoying the moment on a warm day with the wind in your hair. Plus the straight box made more noise than the induction roar. It was a beast of a car but sadly built for a purpose which I didn't make full use off.

Eyeing up an exige at some point, providing I stay in a job post covid, but I thoroughly enjoyed the experience of ownership and have some great memories!

My only reliability issue was when I lost oil pressure, turned out then oil pressure sensor wire came loose, bit that was around the time my confidence started to creep in and want long before I sold it. Oh and I missed a shift a needed a gearbox rebuild! Engine had no issues though

Straight cut sequential boxes are a pig on the road! And easy to break if you're a bit ham fisted. I think the car was better than my own abilities!

It was fast though, maybe not the fastest car I've had but it felt like it!

[antonio.cocchi]

Thanks all for contribution.

[antonio.cocchi]

coppice said:

I did nearly 50,000 miles in a six speed R400 Duratec . At first I thought the short gearing was absurd , but that is only because road cars have become so ludicrously over geared. I got used to it very quickly , even on 500 mile days , and wouldn't have swapped for a 5 speed.

Fun fact - a six speed Seven's gearing is only a fraction shorter than a Ferrari Dino's .