Independent rear suspension
Discussion
I believe that not all caterhams have the de Dion rear end. Some have fully independent double wishbone rear set up. Or am I wrong ?
Nothing is mentioned in the model description or extras list on the cc web site.
I've also noticed that it's not mentioned in private ads either. If some do have double rear wishbone set up, how would you know ? And how many are there / how common are they ?
Or is asking the seller the only way to find out ?
Nothing is mentioned in the model description or extras list on the cc web site.
I've also noticed that it's not mentioned in private ads either. If some do have double rear wishbone set up, how would you know ? And how many are there / how common are they ?
Or is asking the seller the only way to find out ?
I think wishbones with tie bars sounds much better.
I know your all big caterham fans, but the de Dion set up doesn't seem great.
I've had an early 1700 super sport from 1989, and 2 Westfields. Both makes have certain bits that are better than the other and I think the rear set up of the westy is better. You say that Caterham have fitted this set up to their higher spec car, so perhaps they agree. If that's true, why don't they offer it on their options ? Or have it as standard ?
I know your all big caterham fans, but the de Dion set up doesn't seem great.
I've had an early 1700 super sport from 1989, and 2 Westfields. Both makes have certain bits that are better than the other and I think the rear set up of the westy is better. You say that Caterham have fitted this set up to their higher spec car, so perhaps they agree. If that's true, why don't they offer it on their options ? Or have it as standard ?
To say I don't like caterhams is simply not true. What does annoy me are companies, all companies that focus on marketing rather than product.
Due to marketing, customers are sold on the idea that the product is better than all competition and that it's the best that it can be.
Caterham owners have bought that idea, but is it true ??
I have worked in engineering and I love the whole concept of the 7, but for a product that is so simple to produce, I don't see why caterham should skimp on spec when the price is so massive. Or offer things as extras that should simply be included in the price, in order to extract more cash from the customer who has already paid an arm and a leg.
I'm currently comparing the spec of caterhams with other, hence the question about rear suspension set up. I know the de Dion works well but others offer an independent double wishbone rear end. It's known to be a better set up. Even caterham agree by the fact they offered it on their more expensive cars rather than their cheapest.( Apparently )
I don't even think it's more expensive to make, so why don't they have it.
Bert - I love the cars, I have a problem with Caterham because I think they could do better. They should produce a car to match the price. We all know that they can do it but they choose not to. That shows a lack of respect for the customer, and that's you !
Due to marketing, customers are sold on the idea that the product is better than all competition and that it's the best that it can be.
Caterham owners have bought that idea, but is it true ??
I have worked in engineering and I love the whole concept of the 7, but for a product that is so simple to produce, I don't see why caterham should skimp on spec when the price is so massive. Or offer things as extras that should simply be included in the price, in order to extract more cash from the customer who has already paid an arm and a leg.
I'm currently comparing the spec of caterhams with other, hence the question about rear suspension set up. I know the de Dion works well but others offer an independent double wishbone rear end. It's known to be a better set up. Even caterham agree by the fact they offered it on their more expensive cars rather than their cheapest.( Apparently )
I don't even think it's more expensive to make, so why don't they have it.
Bert - I love the cars, I have a problem with Caterham because I think they could do better. They should produce a car to match the price. We all know that they can do it but they choose not to. That shows a lack of respect for the customer, and that's you !
Please. Take off your caterham hat and view the rear end components from an un biased viewpoint.
If you were designing a track car / fast road car from scratch, you would not choose or design that set up. It would be fully independent and fully adjustable. I can't think of one single seater race car, track car, saloon track car etc that has either a de Dion tube or some type of set up where one side is directly connected to the other ! (Except an anti roll bar ). Even Colin Chapman himself , when designing a race car produced a double wishbone fully independent, fully adjustable rear end mounted on a rigid center structure ( in that case it was the gearbox casing ). BRILLIANT !!! And won the F1 championship more than once.
Just because it's been in use for decades, doesn't make it the best choice now. If that were true they would still have a single overhead cam cross flow engine on Webber carbs........ Or perhaps horse drawn! They were once VERY popular !!!
Caterham were granted a licence to continue making the Lotus 7 back in the 80s. But don't kid yourself in thinking that the current car is in any way the same as those cars, other than the fact that they look strikingly similar. ( A trick Porsche uses...... Their 911 is a totally different car to their 80s version, though also looks strikingly similar). I've seen many people use the word "fakerham", which I hate. Some of these car more closely resemble a caterham, than caterham resembles an original lotus 7 !!
Again. I started this thread because as I'm interested in buying a 7, I wanted to know what spec is available. Most details are easily found on the net, but very little about rear set up. Hence the original question. I thought the de dion was one of two or more options, I didn't expect it to be the only set up as it's not the best solution.
For someone to reply that " because I love caterham and that's how they make it and always have , i therefore believe it MUST be the best design. Is more than a little odd
If caterham feel that this is the view of most of their customers, they could make just anything and put their badge on it.
At this price point, it's important to expect the world and then compromise. Rather than just settling for a poor offer.
If you were designing a track car / fast road car from scratch, you would not choose or design that set up. It would be fully independent and fully adjustable. I can't think of one single seater race car, track car, saloon track car etc that has either a de Dion tube or some type of set up where one side is directly connected to the other ! (Except an anti roll bar ). Even Colin Chapman himself , when designing a race car produced a double wishbone fully independent, fully adjustable rear end mounted on a rigid center structure ( in that case it was the gearbox casing ). BRILLIANT !!! And won the F1 championship more than once.
Just because it's been in use for decades, doesn't make it the best choice now. If that were true they would still have a single overhead cam cross flow engine on Webber carbs........ Or perhaps horse drawn! They were once VERY popular !!!
Caterham were granted a licence to continue making the Lotus 7 back in the 80s. But don't kid yourself in thinking that the current car is in any way the same as those cars, other than the fact that they look strikingly similar. ( A trick Porsche uses...... Their 911 is a totally different car to their 80s version, though also looks strikingly similar). I've seen many people use the word "fakerham", which I hate. Some of these car more closely resemble a caterham, than caterham resembles an original lotus 7 !!
Again. I started this thread because as I'm interested in buying a 7, I wanted to know what spec is available. Most details are easily found on the net, but very little about rear set up. Hence the original question. I thought the de dion was one of two or more options, I didn't expect it to be the only set up as it's not the best solution.
For someone to reply that " because I love caterham and that's how they make it and always have , i therefore believe it MUST be the best design. Is more than a little odd
If caterham feel that this is the view of most of their customers, they could make just anything and put their badge on it.
At this price point, it's important to expect the world and then compromise. Rather than just settling for a poor offer.
Well.
After a little research and a lot of thought I've decided to stick to the 7 I have.
Be nice to own something new or nearly new but having looked about, I realise that my car is better built, better finished and definitely better spec,ed than nearly anything available. Also it's still mint.
Changing it would be a step down, though as it's not made by caterham I'm sure some of you would automatically disagree.
After a little research and a lot of thought I've decided to stick to the 7 I have.
Be nice to own something new or nearly new but having looked about, I realise that my car is better built, better finished and definitely better spec,ed than nearly anything available. Also it's still mint.
Changing it would be a step down, though as it's not made by caterham I'm sure some of you would automatically disagree.
A relative of a friend of a friend works at caterham.
I've been trying to find out what new design and developments are being worked on there.
Obviously they are working on electric, but I can also share this.
If this was offered in stead of, or as well as de Dion. What would you think ??![](https://thumbsnap.com/sc/AwJQd3oh.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="https://thumbsnap.com/oJvMwodH" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]https://thumbsnap.com/sc/oJvMwodH.jpg)
I've been trying to find out what new design and developments are being worked on there.
Obviously they are working on electric, but I can also share this.
If this was offered in stead of, or as well as de Dion. What would you think ??
My first caterham was made in 1988 and had a live axle and sidedraft webbers just like yours.
Sorry if I'm disappointed and underwhelmed by the rate of advance and development made during those 11 years. What a bunch of lazy tossers they were. Thank god they've changed ! ( NOT !!!!! )
Sorry if I'm disappointed and underwhelmed by the rate of advance and development made during those 11 years. What a bunch of lazy tossers they were. Thank god they've changed ! ( NOT !!!!! )
As the original post, there is much I want to say. A lot on the lines of Equus.
However, having read through it all, it becomes clear that you are becoming very frustrated. It's no one's fault because for these people to understand what you mean, they need to have some imagination.
All they see is the badge, a car that is different to any other and still is, and how brilliant it is to drive. If it has another badge it must be crap and if you alter it you'd ruin it.
However, it has had a badge change ( from Lotus ) and it has changed many times already.
But without imagination, they can't see what it could be or should be ( bearing in mind it's now 2021 ).
Because caterham cars recognise this, they have chosen to do nothing............. no development to current tech. With the attitude of " what the customer hasn't had, it won't miss ". In other words some of their customers have allowed them to just be plain lazy.
I've had many cars, ( including caterham, Westfield, Dax rush and my current 7 ) worked in engineering and have an imaginative flair. In my head, I see exactly what this car could and should be, and it aggregates me that those responsible have just made no effort. All they seem to concentrate on is branding and marketing ( not engineering and development ). Until the customer develops an imagination, this won't change.
Like these people I'm also very frustrated, but for a different reason. For me it's because I have an imagination and want a Caterham of 2021. The others are frustrated because they have no imagination so therefore can't see what all the fuss is about.
If I could click my fingers and put it in front of them, they would then understand. ( However, if it didn't have the right badge on it they'd probably say it's crap ............. Only joking, I'm now taking the p1ss )
However, having read through it all, it becomes clear that you are becoming very frustrated. It's no one's fault because for these people to understand what you mean, they need to have some imagination.
All they see is the badge, a car that is different to any other and still is, and how brilliant it is to drive. If it has another badge it must be crap and if you alter it you'd ruin it.
However, it has had a badge change ( from Lotus ) and it has changed many times already.
But without imagination, they can't see what it could be or should be ( bearing in mind it's now 2021 ).
Because caterham cars recognise this, they have chosen to do nothing............. no development to current tech. With the attitude of " what the customer hasn't had, it won't miss ". In other words some of their customers have allowed them to just be plain lazy.
I've had many cars, ( including caterham, Westfield, Dax rush and my current 7 ) worked in engineering and have an imaginative flair. In my head, I see exactly what this car could and should be, and it aggregates me that those responsible have just made no effort. All they seem to concentrate on is branding and marketing ( not engineering and development ). Until the customer develops an imagination, this won't change.
Like these people I'm also very frustrated, but for a different reason. For me it's because I have an imagination and want a Caterham of 2021. The others are frustrated because they have no imagination so therefore can't see what all the fuss is about.
If I could click my fingers and put it in front of them, they would then understand. ( However, if it didn't have the right badge on it they'd probably say it's crap ............. Only joking, I'm now taking the p1ss )
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