R400 Options and Spec
Discussion
Everyone
Now that I have decided to get a new R400, it's time to sort spec! To that end, I have got the latest spec sheet and have been working through it... Most of it seems fairly straight forward, but I have some questions for you all (bear in mind - I want to spec the car as a county lanes fun car with track days thrown in):-
1. Stack dash - Yes or No?
2. Track day dampers - Who are they made by and would you recommend them?
3. Heater - Can this be fitted at a later date? I fancy trying no heater for the summer months and then maybe getting one fitted in the winter if I get the car out enough and my rear gets cold enough!
Thanks all!
Now that I have decided to get a new R400, it's time to sort spec! To that end, I have got the latest spec sheet and have been working through it... Most of it seems fairly straight forward, but I have some questions for you all (bear in mind - I want to spec the car as a county lanes fun car with track days thrown in):-
1. Stack dash - Yes or No?
2. Track day dampers - Who are they made by and would you recommend them?
3. Heater - Can this be fitted at a later date? I fancy trying no heater for the summer months and then maybe getting one fitted in the winter if I get the car out enough and my rear gets cold enough!
Thanks all!
Re Trackday dampers - there is a £1,000 option for trackday dampers. These are adjustable vs the non adjustable standard ones. I would like adjustable dampers, but I have noticed lots of chat about aftermarket dampers (e.g. Nitron, Spax etc) and wondered whether it was better to get the standard set up and add aftermarket adjustables, or go for the caterham adjustables from day 1.
Re stack dash - looks like that's a good idea
Re heater - am still in two minds over this one primarily because of the added weight. If it's 5 or 6 Kgs, then that's not going to ruin my day and I will probably get it.
Re R400 delivery dates - Caterham quoted me June last week. I'll call them later today for an update on that. They did not have a demonstrator available but were expecting to have one soon...
Views?
Re stack dash - looks like that's a good idea
Re heater - am still in two minds over this one primarily because of the added weight. If it's 5 or 6 Kgs, then that's not going to ruin my day and I will probably get it.
Re R400 delivery dates - Caterham quoted me June last week. I'll call them later today for an update on that. They did not have a demonstrator available but were expecting to have one soon...
Views?
Re car price at £35.5k - that's more like it. You can also save another £1,000 off that as, in contrast to the k engined cars, you don't need a dry sump (there isn't one on the options list either!).
Re second hand R400s, I can't find anything under £22 - 23k unless it's an ex race car. Hence the difference between new and second hand is £8 - 10k. And don't forget they have totally different engines (and a different chassis). Having said all that, a decent k engined R400 has to be a tempting buy if you can find the right one.
Re second hand R400s, I can't find anything under £22 - 23k unless it's an ex race car. Hence the difference between new and second hand is £8 - 10k. And don't forget they have totally different engines (and a different chassis). Having said all that, a decent k engined R400 has to be a tempting buy if you can find the right one.
Pugsey - interesting that you are going for all the carbon bits. I looked into this and decided that weight saving (less than 10kgs if you go for everything - seats, nose, rear wings, wind deflector) wasn't worth nearly £2k! However, I may change my mind 'cos it looks too flash! Also, if I add the heater, I can save almost all that weight by adding the carbon seats... tempted again now!
Re dry sump - I spoke to caterham about this last week. They said they might develop one 'to keep customers happy', but they didn't recommend it and didn't say it was needed. The reason being - the Duratec with baffled sump was doing just fine. I did some research on blatchat and uncovered a really good thread on this (sorry - don't have the link but have a look in tech chat). Again, the concensus view was that the k series engine needed the dry sump, but the duratec did not. Assuming my info is correct, then it would seem logical to suggest that the dry sump may make sense for race purposes, but for road/trackday cars its benefit is marginal at best. If caterham offer it on the road going R400 its probably got more to do with marketing than real need. Either way, it's not on the current price/spec sheet and loads of people have orders in. I can't believe caterham would sell a car with that spec knowing it would have problems? Any more insight on this would be good!
I'm sure you're right re caterham looking to squeeze the margins out of each car - they are a business after all!
Re the dry sump - I will do more research on this, as I clearly don't want a lunched engine..! But, as I said, the view on blatchat is that the Duratec doesn't need one even for track use. Will try and find the thread and post a link.
Re what you get - you do get two carbon wings and a carbon dash, but you don't get carbon rear wings or nose... You also get the same standard wheels as the R300.
It isn't a cheap piece of kit - but compared to a CSR it's a total bargain!
Re the dry sump - I will do more research on this, as I clearly don't want a lunched engine..! But, as I said, the view on blatchat is that the Duratec doesn't need one even for track use. Will try and find the thread and post a link.
Re what you get - you do get two carbon wings and a carbon dash, but you don't get carbon rear wings or nose... You also get the same standard wheels as the R300.
It isn't a cheap piece of kit - but compared to a CSR it's a total bargain!
Right - here's the dry sump thread from blatchat... Enjoy!
www.blatchat.com/T.asp?id=111791
Don't know how to make the link 'link', so you might have to do a cut/paste job. Worth it though...
www.blatchat.com/T.asp?id=111791
Don't know how to make the link 'link', so you might have to do a cut/paste job. Worth it though...
sound advice. A d/s is probably going to be on the cards. I would imagine that if upgradeitis sets in, and I chose to up the horses to 230 - 250, then a d/s (and prob oil cooler) will become even more useful/necessary.
Anyone know how the Caterham d/s works? Is it a belt drive system?
Anyone know how the Caterham d/s works? Is it a belt drive system?
Re spec and pricing - I will speak to the sales team again - may be tomorrow (was going to call them today, but got timed out).
Re colours - now that's a huge problem, and no, I don't have an answer yet. Current thinking is something like blue with silver stripe/noseband, bare carbon cycle wings. Alternative is white with a blue stripe/noseband and again, prob keep the cycle wings bare carbon.
What are you thinking of re colours?
Re colours - now that's a huge problem, and no, I don't have an answer yet. Current thinking is something like blue with silver stripe/noseband, bare carbon cycle wings. Alternative is white with a blue stripe/noseband and again, prob keep the cycle wings bare carbon.
What are you thinking of re colours?
That is a great photo! Even makes yellow look good! Hahahaaaa. 
Where was it taken?
Re R400 engine - I can't believe that Caterham would release a new updated R400 without the engine/spec being a step up on the outgoing model. However, there are lots of rumours re who is going to be making the engine - some suggest that Cosworth won't be doing it, but who knows? All will become clear when the new car is released... hopefully sooner rather than later! The suspense is too much!
Where was it taken? Re R400 engine - I can't believe that Caterham would release a new updated R400 without the engine/spec being a step up on the outgoing model. However, there are lots of rumours re who is going to be making the engine - some suggest that Cosworth won't be doing it, but who knows? All will become clear when the new car is released... hopefully sooner rather than later! The suspense is too much!
Latest news from Caterham re R400:-
Spoke to them today, news as follows:-
Re dry sump - not needed unless it's a pure track car or running slicks (academy and roadsport race series cars don't even have them). Caterham aren't evening going to have it available for the first customer cars as the system has yet to be finalised/developed. Will be offered though at some point.
Re engine - will be an inhouse Duratec, not cosworth developed. Interestingly enough, the reason given for this was that the inhouse design is giving the same power, but has better reliability.
Re availability of cars - first ones due in 4 -6 weeks
Re 50th Anniversary - there are a couple of paint jobs being offered, but no news on special cars/performance bits.
Spoke to them today, news as follows:-
Re dry sump - not needed unless it's a pure track car or running slicks (academy and roadsport race series cars don't even have them). Caterham aren't evening going to have it available for the first customer cars as the system has yet to be finalised/developed. Will be offered though at some point.
Re engine - will be an inhouse Duratec, not cosworth developed. Interestingly enough, the reason given for this was that the inhouse design is giving the same power, but has better reliability.
Re availability of cars - first ones due in 4 -6 weeks
Re 50th Anniversary - there are a couple of paint jobs being offered, but no news on special cars/performance bits.
very true! Probably something I will put on the future upgrades list when I decide that slicks are the only way ahead..! But initially I'll stick with good old CR500s (or maybe mildly upgrade to ACB10s). Either way, my car will prob do more road miles than track miles. I anticipate doing 2/3 track days a year in it (I have a westy XTR2 for hardcore track action), plus a trip to the nurburgring, plus the odd weekend country lane blast...
LSD is standard, Duratec is the engine, but not by Cosworth because (so the official line goes), the factory are getting the same power for less cost and more reliably than Cosworth were able to. The Dry Sump wasn't included because it wasn't considered necessary (as discussed earlier), however, as everyone is suggesting it's a good insurance policy I'm sure most of us will spec it! Either way - the Duratec car is still cheaper than the outgoing K Series car on a like for like spec basis!
Well, we can continue to speculate - the final spec/costs haven't been finalised... but I reckon the new R400 price will end up around £34 - 35k with the right optional goodies. Compared to a used k series r400 at £24k or an R500 at £23 - £25k that is a big difference. However, its a bargain compared to a CSR, and doesn't come with an engine made of cheese! If the market will pay the price, then that's fine by me - as long as residuals reflect this too... (and no one knows how that will work out...!).
Bafty - you have clearly spent a lot of time thinking about this, and from what you say, it sounds like you thought about ordering a new R400 and then backed out. If this is the case, then can you explain what drove your decision? Was it purely a cost issue, or was there more to it?
Bafty - you have clearly spent a lot of time thinking about this, and from what you say, it sounds like you thought about ordering a new R400 and then backed out. If this is the case, then can you explain what drove your decision? Was it purely a cost issue, or was there more to it?
Pugsey - well said.
I used to have a 355 - great car, but after 5years I wanted a change... and it cost an utter fortune to run e.g. last service came in at over £4k... I would however, recommend a 355 to anyone - a truelly fabulous car. I also considered a 996 RS, but I thought nearly £70k was a bit more than I wanted to spend right now, and it would just get spanked by an R400 on a track, which would be annoying. Also considered a 550 M - prob the best value V12 Ferrari out there at the moment - but again, just not that quick on a track and even more costly to run than a 355.
In the end, I chose the caterham on emotional reasons - it gives me the best 'fun' on a road and is decently quick on a track. I don't mind paying a bit more for a new car for a whole host of reasons included in an earlier post on this thread (or might be the other one called new vs old R400).
Finally - as mentioned earlier - the R400 base price is 27445. If you add in the base minimum options to get you a decent car (e.g. paint, 13" wheels and full weather gear), it will be closer to 30k. Above that, you are into 'toys' options or 'bling' options or other bits that you would prob upgrade to at some point (e.g. adjustable dampers), but don't necessarily need on day one. Hence, when compared to a second hand R400 at £25k that has done over 12k miles and been thrashed to death by evo hacks and assorted others I think that is actually not a bad deal..! Perhaps I'm strange and see things in a funny way! Always possible! Hahaaaaaaaaa.
I used to have a 355 - great car, but after 5years I wanted a change... and it cost an utter fortune to run e.g. last service came in at over £4k... I would however, recommend a 355 to anyone - a truelly fabulous car. I also considered a 996 RS, but I thought nearly £70k was a bit more than I wanted to spend right now, and it would just get spanked by an R400 on a track, which would be annoying. Also considered a 550 M - prob the best value V12 Ferrari out there at the moment - but again, just not that quick on a track and even more costly to run than a 355.
In the end, I chose the caterham on emotional reasons - it gives me the best 'fun' on a road and is decently quick on a track. I don't mind paying a bit more for a new car for a whole host of reasons included in an earlier post on this thread (or might be the other one called new vs old R400).
Finally - as mentioned earlier - the R400 base price is 27445. If you add in the base minimum options to get you a decent car (e.g. paint, 13" wheels and full weather gear), it will be closer to 30k. Above that, you are into 'toys' options or 'bling' options or other bits that you would prob upgrade to at some point (e.g. adjustable dampers), but don't necessarily need on day one. Hence, when compared to a second hand R400 at £25k that has done over 12k miles and been thrashed to death by evo hacks and assorted others I think that is actually not a bad deal..! Perhaps I'm strange and see things in a funny way! Always possible! Hahaaaaaaaaa.
Bafty - thanks for your answer. Very clear. In so far as my purchasing decision is concerned - I'm looking for exactly the car you didn't want - i.e. a one hour sunny saturday lane blaster and odd track day jolly. I have other cars to do the other stuff - like commute, go to the shops, cruise to far away places etc - and I don't need another. So for me, something like the R400 is right up my street (assuming the spec/prices don't move too far from where they are now!).
Just getting back on topic - at the beginning of this thread, I asked the following questions:-
1. Stack dash - Yes or No?
2. Track day dampers - Who are they made by and would you recommend them?
3. Heater - Can this be fitted at a later date? I fancy trying no heater for the summer months and then maybe getting one fitted in the winter if I get the car out enough and my rear gets cold enough!
We have answered 1 and 3, but not much input has come through on question 2 and this is where I really need your views. It is clear from what everyone has said that adjustable dampers (not platforms - but damping force adjustment) are preferable to Caterhams standard non adjustable dampers. My question is - is it better to buy Caterham's adjustable dampers (a £1k option) or is it better to start with the standard Caterhams set up and buy aftermarket dampers, like Nitrons. From what I have been able to discover - Caterham tell me that their adjustables come from a company called Dynamics Suspension who are the same people that do those on the CSR.
Thanks
ps: if we want to continue the 'R400 good buy or bad buy?' topic - I suggest we set up a seperate thread... Ta.
Just getting back on topic - at the beginning of this thread, I asked the following questions:-
1. Stack dash - Yes or No?
2. Track day dampers - Who are they made by and would you recommend them?
3. Heater - Can this be fitted at a later date? I fancy trying no heater for the summer months and then maybe getting one fitted in the winter if I get the car out enough and my rear gets cold enough!
We have answered 1 and 3, but not much input has come through on question 2 and this is where I really need your views. It is clear from what everyone has said that adjustable dampers (not platforms - but damping force adjustment) are preferable to Caterhams standard non adjustable dampers. My question is - is it better to buy Caterham's adjustable dampers (a £1k option) or is it better to start with the standard Caterhams set up and buy aftermarket dampers, like Nitrons. From what I have been able to discover - Caterham tell me that their adjustables come from a company called Dynamics Suspension who are the same people that do those on the CSR.
Thanks
ps: if we want to continue the 'R400 good buy or bad buy?' topic - I suggest we set up a seperate thread... Ta.
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