HTC Vive...let's try this VR stuff..

[Digby]

Have just picked one of these up and was wondering if anyone else has dipped their toe into the VR pool?

If so, what's best to try?

Am about to see how easy it is to set up and I will report back..

[Digby]

Well, a quick review...

It's the future, this. It needs a better res and probably wireless tech, but it's the future.

I have been there for all the pivotal moments of PC / game development; from pong to the very first accelerated GPU's, all of the boundary pushing consoles, flat monitors, 3D.....you name it. It all started for me back in the 70's and I have spent a fortune. My jaw has been wide open a few times and it just happened again..

Setting it all up wasn't too sad. I screwed one sensor to a curtain rail and the other to a tall CD cabinet. Then you run through the web page instructions and off you go..

First of all, the tracking is nothing short of amazing. In the demo room, you can inflate balloons and with the two controllers, you can bat them around and grab them etc. This moment alone, as I managed to stop one flying away, made me let out an expletive

Later and during the start of the story driven and part interactive Apollo 11, you find yourself in a room with a TV and projector playing. Just to my right was a table with a model of one of the landers on it. I spun my head to look at it, walked forward a little, knelt down and moved my head closer. I then moved all around it on my knees and it tracked me to perfection.

You can forget any thoughts of it not keeping up with you etc, it does. It is, as I say, amazing

Later, on the way up to the rocket cockpit, you are standing in an elevator with the two other pilots. You had such a feeling of being there that as I walked between them in this small space, I turned my body to make sure I would fit! I then got 'in the face' of one of them and it actually made me uncomfortable because graphics aside, you felt like you had just put yourself two inches from another human face and had locked eyes. I would imagine the first VR porn titles will sell well..

There were many more moments worth mentioning, but I have more demos to look at now so I shall report once again on my findings. Basically, resolution and a few gripes aside, it's an amazing experience. Nothing will ever be the same again.

[Digby]

FourWheelDrift said:

Have you tried the Brookhaven Experiment?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEl4nj15Jpc

Yep. As with most games, you can forget 2k, 4k graphics at this stage, so things are less sharp and detailed than playing on a PC screen, but - and it's a big but - my heart started to pound as things progressed in that demo. I was spinning around all over the place and letting them get close to save bullets for headshots was.....unnerving.

Again, re: the tracking, as you hold the Vive controller up in front of your face, you are looking at your gun. You can put it right up to your nose, out at arms length and even spin it around and fire it at yourself if you wish. Same with the torch. And if you move your torch and shine it at your right hand, the gun casts a massive shadow. I could kneel down and shoot, stand and shoot and spin around as quickly as possible and it was all replicated 100%.

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paulrockliffe said:

Very interesting. I've not really looked into VR much, but keep seeing adverts for it, that don't really explain it. What is the extent of the tracking you talk about, is it tracking your body by camera, or just your hands by tracking the controllers? Are you able to walk around in a space?

What sort of processing power do you need? I can think of reasons why it wouldn't need much, but also reasons why it would need loads.

I'm never been big into gaming, I think because I'm not very good without the realism. I could get the hang of driving games with a steering wheel, but only really with force feedback, though I could never get the feeling of braking at all, so that was just guess work. If the realism is properly there, I could probably really enjoy gaming again.

What are they like for cinema? Should be great, but less sociable I'd guess. Might hold off on the projector for the workshop for a while. Would be great for when the missus tells me to put some Channel 4 crap on when I'm watching proper TV.

Anyway, keep the thread updated, I'm sure there's lots of people interested in how you get on and if you find any little niggles etc.

The HTC Vive allows you to walk around a little by using body tracking sensors and two wireless control pads. You can look up, down, anywhere you like. Want to hide behind a concrete pillar in a game and just peek around it? No problem. Want to lay yourself on the floor and look up at the underside of a table? No problem.

The larger and more clear your room is, the better. Obviously what you can't do is walk for two miles, so the games so far have adopted a 'point and teleport' kind of approach, or by using platforms that move around etc. You can walk a little, but only as far as your room allows.

I think this situation will always be the immersion killer until the platforms which allow you to walk on the spot etc become readily available, but for now, just taking a few steps in the real world and having your character move is still pretty impressive. The Vive also allows you to scan your room space and during a game, should you trundle too close towards your furniture whilst swinging a sword, a grid system appears in your lenses to let you know. It works quite well actually and will stop people falling out of windows..


The Oculus rift currently only allows you to sit or stand and move your head whilst using an Xbox pad for everything else, but developments are coming to make it more like the Vive apparently.

I'm not actually sure how much BHP you need, but I have 2 GTX 970's in SLI so shouldn't have too many issues. Obviously a lot will depend on the games. Many are quite basic despite being fun, but we will no doubt see better and better titles. I would imagine this will go the way of TV's, projectors, consoles etc and will end up with 4k VR headsets which will demand the latest Nvidia cards and all that jazz. i think, however, it's safe to say that you need a bit of 'oomph' to get the most out of it.

Not sure about movies, but I think some of the youtube videos now allow VR and you can, for example, look at a cinema screen with something playing but also turn around and look at the fire exits and entrance doors

I think some may find the 'wow' factor wearing off quite quickly, though. I played a dungeon hack and slash type affair a while ago and it's surprising how quickly you get used to it all. Again, it was let down by the forward moving teleporting. It works perfectly well, but as I walked say, five feet across my own bedroom to open a door in the game, once that door opens, I can no longer walk forward due to my real life wall. I either have to walk five feet backwards and teleport back to the door so I can walk another five feet before I hit my wall, or, use the teleport to angle myself so I can walk back the way I just came but on screen, it will be through that door.

The thing is, just as you are thinking "Oh that's a shame, I hope they hurry up with cheap treadmills", you find a sword and a shield and are blocking and slashing and having a great time. You get used to things again and are thinking of having a bit of a break and then you find a bow and arrows and you have to hold it and draw your arms back in the exact same way you would in real life...and off you go again for a play.

This IS the future, but it is going to get so much better..

SturdyHSV said:

I think the important thing is that your brain just believes that what you can see is 'there'. You instinctively reach out for the gear stick expecting it to be where it is virtually. You can't help but recoil / flinch back slightly as you head off the track towards something solid.

Don't laugh, but during part of my dungeon slashing, I walked up to an alter and at that point decided to remove the headset and have a cup of tea. I looked down at the alter and tried to place my two hand controllers on it... It's not like it was amazing on the graphics front, either; rather in-game I had just dropped two other items on to it and as you say, my brain just wanted to do the same again.

I bet there will be a few busted pads as time goes on..

Edited by Digby on Wednesday 4th May 13:33

[Digby]

Am now just waiting for injury reports to hit the headlines given that my mate tried mine last night and whilst reaching over to grab something in the game, he tried to lean on a virtual stone block, stumbled forward and almost face-planted into my bedroom wall!

He also jumped at one point whilst being attacked and hit his head on my ceiling lamp

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FourWheelDrift said:

Gr44 said:

I'm thinking FEAR on VR (and how I will not be playing it)

Imagine Outlast on VR or the upcoming Outlast 2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a58xhkF1O5w

Paranormal Activity..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qsna1ChGt0E

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FourWheelDrift said:

You'll be needing this - http://www.trashgames.co.uk/toiletSimulator.html after playing them.

[Digby]

Well, I just tried Project Cars on my Vive (using an Xbox pad) and it's.....novel.

Looking behind is cool and you can become quite immersed, however, the resolution just kills it for me. It's not bad, but coming from 4K, it loses a lot.

I played around and enjoyed it, but I'm not sure I could play it properly with such a lack of detail in the distance etc.

[Digby]

born2bslow said:

The overall resolution is not the be all and end all for me.

It's not for me, either. Several games / demos I have simply don't need a high res although I will admit they would be better with one. The thing is, it's not because I played Project Cars in 4k that put me off, I would happily play it in 1080 on a pc screen, rather it's the way the Vive displays such games.

The actual Vive res is quite decent, but you can see those blocks you used to see if you squashed your face against a CRT tv as a kid. In a game like Project Cars, it stands out a lot; in other games, you hardly notice or simply don't care. They cause objects in the distance to look blocky and that simply snaps you out of the immersion.

Some of the scenic 'standing on a mountain' type of demos suffer, too. Yes, you can look over the edge and suffer from butterflies, but the distance looks a little 'off' and the res isn't high enough to make what would look ultra-realistic on your pc screen, ultra-realistic.

The wow and fun factors are there and this is undoubtedly the future of gaming, but it will lend itself at this stage to certain games far better than others in terms of realism.

Forgot to add that my friend tried mine with glasses and found it to be fine. There is an adjustment that can be made from the Vive headset which adjusts the distance of the lenses from your eyes and this should cater for all types of glasses in relation to focus.

Edited by Digby on Thursday 19th May 15:38

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Guvernator said:

What you are talking about with the blocky graphics is called the screen door effect...

That's the one!

Was trying to think what it was called as I remember reading about it when I had my first projector.

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What happens if I put on my virtual reality headset and someone makes a game where you play as a character who is playing with a virtual reality headset and on that virtual headset, the game loaded is based upon someone playing with a virtual reality headset..?

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Since I started this thread, I am on light bulb number four.

Fragile things those energy saving ones.

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Tried the updated boxing game..

Got to the third bloke, had to stop. Absolutely knackered and now my arms are burning.

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red_slr said:

Possible wireless module coming Q1 17! Will allow full wireless use of the Vive. Wonder what Oculus have to say about that...

Talk of c.$250 USD although I am doubtful it will happen so quickly at that price point but will be great if it does. Looks like they are trying to use 60Ghz band too which I think may have some limitations - but its got my interest that's for sure!

Sold out in 18 minutes..

http://uploadvr.com/18-minute-sell-out-htc-vive-wi...

[Digby]

One of the better treadmill things I have seen. Especially as it allows you to duck etc.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/katvr/kat-wal...

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red_slr said:

Vive Pro on sale £200 discount at the moment.

Considering upgrading from my std Vive… worth it or hang on for next gen?

I started this thread but sold my Vive some time ago. I then fancied another crack at VR so got myself an Oculus Rift S. It's much nicer than the original vive, easier to use and was much cheaper than a Vive Pro (I would have needed the full package)

Tracking is built in and the image is a lot clearer.

Could be an option for you?