Building Up a Top Notch Car Sim Cockpit
Discussion
So Ive been thinking recently, with the roads as busy as they are, and the weather typically being rubbish, I wondered if id get more use of a top end car sim set up than I do from my actual real weekend car.
I drove at IZone in their simulator a year or so ago and really enjoyed it, and have kind of had it in the back of my mind ever since.
What would it take to put together a top-ish line car simulator/cockpit. Id want hydraulic pedals but not that fussed about the movement/motion element.
Software wise can anything now days running on a console compare to a PC based set up.
I drove at IZone in their simulator a year or so ago and really enjoyed it, and have kind of had it in the back of my mind ever since.
What would it take to put together a top-ish line car simulator/cockpit. Id want hydraulic pedals but not that fussed about the movement/motion element.
Software wise can anything now days running on a console compare to a PC based set up.
Rick101 said:
Thrustmaster
I have TM, love it, great wheel, but a long long way from high end!
I got into Sim racing aroud 5 years ago. Had a bit of a lull these last two years but have decided to get into it again with some vigour.
Whilst the kit makes it exciting, it's the racing that makes it fun.
If you are wanting 'high end' stuff, there is lots available but be aware it will cost you more than a cheap track car.
Yeah a brief scan of the net, it does look that a top end set up is big bucks. I have TM, love it, great wheel, but a long long way from high end!
I got into Sim racing aroud 5 years ago. Had a bit of a lull these last two years but have decided to get into it again with some vigour.
Whilst the kit makes it exciting, it's the racing that makes it fun.
If you are wanting 'high end' stuff, there is lots available but be aware it will cost you more than a cheap track car.
Going to have to make a price up to convince the home boss
deckster said:
How much do you want to spend? You can get something that more-or-less works for a few hundred quid, or you can spank 50 grand (or more I'd imagine) on a full-motion simulator. Where are you on that scale?
I'm happy not to have full motion, but would like proper pedal feel hence would like hydraulic brake pedal. Are most top end sims based on iRacing.
I think something I can build up/extend as I go would be good.
Edited by m4tti on Friday 1st December 14:47
mp3manager said:
PhwwwooooooaaaaarrrrNow that is awesome. I'm not sure I'd sneak that past the home boss.
Rick101 said:
Have a think about what you want to achive.
Getting set up and racing is great fun. Building a top end rig is also great fun but very expensive.
All depends what your aim is.
Top end wheel servo for comparison. Obviously rim and other fittings are extra!
http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=...
GT1 Rim
http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=...
That again is impressively expensive. Getting set up and racing is great fun. Building a top end rig is also great fun but very expensive.
All depends what your aim is.
Top end wheel servo for comparison. Obviously rim and other fittings are extra!
http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=...
GT1 Rim
http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=...
I guess I'm looking to replicate as close as possible a real car feel... without spending huge amounts. I don't mind spending a few K.
Rick101 said:
Honestly, I'd recommend buying 2nd hand, or 'Timeless' however you want to call it!
Quite regularly full rigs come up, often with motion for very reasonable money.
You could certainly get a base set up for 3 figures and add to it later.
Have you got a decent PC? Many are going to VR now but again it comes down to whether you want it to look shiny or want it to be fun.
I'm in the VR camp. Chasing GTE's through Eau Rouge at a night race is absolutely superb!
Yep I'm good with second hand. Where's best ... fleabay. Quite regularly full rigs come up, often with motion for very reasonable money.
You could certainly get a base set up for 3 figures and add to it later.
Have you got a decent PC? Many are going to VR now but again it comes down to whether you want it to look shiny or want it to be fun.
I'm in the VR camp. Chasing GTE's through Eau Rouge at a night race is absolutely superb!
My pc now is too old, i had a Mac attack and went all apple, but think I'll need to be getting a decent pc again.
SturdyHSV said:
Using a VR headset instead of a monitor (or monitors) is just a matter of displays. The rest of the equipment is identical. You'll want a decent graphics card and a decent CPU (for physics / AI calculations with big grids)
Consumer level equipment you're talking Logitech, Thrustmaster and Fanatec (in that price order)
I cannot emphasise enough how much VR adds to sim racing. Honestly, cannot stress that enough. It is everything. I have had one of these for about 7 years now (same wheel as pictured in fact, just an old Logitech G25)
That sits basically nose on to a 50" TV, so it's actually a pretty good size match and obviously reasonably immersive, but nothing even comes vaguely close to VR for things like driving games (or flight sims) when you also have the hardware in your hands. It also means you can get away with not having your ridiculous racing seat contraption right in the middle in front of the screen all the time and avoid having to move it about.
I think realistically you could spend
About £1,200 on a PC (1070 or 1080 gfx card)
£400 on an Oculus Rift
~£150 on a wheelstand pro or equivalent to start with (like this http://wheelstandpro.com/products/wheel-stand-pro-...
And then whatever steering wheel / pedals you fancy (probably fanatec as they have better pedal options and you're not too fussed on budget)
I imagine you'll be extremely satisfied with a combo like that (the VR alone will blow your mind) and then if you still want to go ballistic on SERIOUS hardware, your fanatec stuff will either serve as a useful backup, or fetch reasonable money on ebay once you've upgraded.
Once you do decide to go nuts, you'll want some bits like this:
https://heusinkveld.com/products/sim-pedals/sim-pe...
http://www.pro-sim.co.uk/shop/shifters/h-pattern-s...
https://sim-pli.city/collections/all/products/sw28... (as at £3k the leo bodnar is probably well in to the diminishing returns category!)
Game wise, iRacing is a lot of money (monthly subscription, stop paying and it all goes away) for what it is. Yes, it means you're racing with grown ups but you can get that with leagues and things online without having to pay for it. It depends if you're in it for the driving or for the racing.
Sim wise, realistically you're looking at:
Assetto Corsa
Dirt Rally
iRacing
rFactor2
There are others, Automobilista, Live For Speed, RaceRoom Race Experience etc. but the communities end up so small that you'll be struggling for online competition if that's your thing.
Personally, I play Assetto Corsa mostly. I don't even bother with online, the driving is so enjoyable and the AI reasonably decent to give me a racing fix if needed. Dirt Rally is magical because of the sound and stage design, and Live For Speed somehow just 'feels' like you're working with real tyres, but it's a very old game now.
Enjoy
Top stuff that is very interesting. With a Vr setup do you totally dispense with a monitor through the headset. You literally don’t need it again. Consumer level equipment you're talking Logitech, Thrustmaster and Fanatec (in that price order)
I cannot emphasise enough how much VR adds to sim racing. Honestly, cannot stress that enough. It is everything. I have had one of these for about 7 years now (same wheel as pictured in fact, just an old Logitech G25)
That sits basically nose on to a 50" TV, so it's actually a pretty good size match and obviously reasonably immersive, but nothing even comes vaguely close to VR for things like driving games (or flight sims) when you also have the hardware in your hands. It also means you can get away with not having your ridiculous racing seat contraption right in the middle in front of the screen all the time and avoid having to move it about.
I think realistically you could spend
About £1,200 on a PC (1070 or 1080 gfx card)
£400 on an Oculus Rift
~£150 on a wheelstand pro or equivalent to start with (like this http://wheelstandpro.com/products/wheel-stand-pro-...
And then whatever steering wheel / pedals you fancy (probably fanatec as they have better pedal options and you're not too fussed on budget)
I imagine you'll be extremely satisfied with a combo like that (the VR alone will blow your mind) and then if you still want to go ballistic on SERIOUS hardware, your fanatec stuff will either serve as a useful backup, or fetch reasonable money on ebay once you've upgraded.
Once you do decide to go nuts, you'll want some bits like this:
https://heusinkveld.com/products/sim-pedals/sim-pe...
http://www.pro-sim.co.uk/shop/shifters/h-pattern-s...
https://sim-pli.city/collections/all/products/sw28... (as at £3k the leo bodnar is probably well in to the diminishing returns category!)
Game wise, iRacing is a lot of money (monthly subscription, stop paying and it all goes away) for what it is. Yes, it means you're racing with grown ups but you can get that with leagues and things online without having to pay for it. It depends if you're in it for the driving or for the racing.
Sim wise, realistically you're looking at:
Assetto Corsa
Dirt Rally
iRacing
rFactor2
There are others, Automobilista, Live For Speed, RaceRoom Race Experience etc. but the communities end up so small that you'll be struggling for online competition if that's your thing.
Personally, I play Assetto Corsa mostly. I don't even bother with online, the driving is so enjoyable and the AI reasonably decent to give me a racing fix if needed. Dirt Rally is magical because of the sound and stage design, and Live For Speed somehow just 'feels' like you're working with real tyres, but it's a very old game now.
Enjoy
That set up looks spot on. I would like hydraulic pedals to get that real braking feel.
SturdyHSV said:
Real braking feel is a hard thing to quantify. Ultimately you can get gradiated resistance and initial bite and very high pedal loads without requiring a hydraulic system on the end of the pedal. It may be worth trying some alternatives out (and a hydraulic one too if at all possible) to see if it is actually worth the difference.
You need the monitor for the game menus and such, but to actually drive you don't need to be anywhere near the PC. The headphones on the Oculus are surprisingly good too (despite looking like an after thought), I don't bother using my surround sound any more as they're more than up to the task 99% of the time.
Although on occasion it's nice to be able to FEEL the engine noise
The thing with VR is that the actual physical setup becomes largely irrelevant. People have invested thousands in huge triple monitor arrays, LED displays, tablets with additional data on etc. and realistically, they're all rendered irrelevant by putting on a headset, as then you're actually sat in the car... There really is no comparison, the extra amount of movement of the car you can 'feel', the ability to place the car so close to walls / apexes, the fact that the opponents are actually car sized and right next to you, the fact you can glance to your left / right to see where they are or look in your mirrors, the fact that you can see elevation, you could spend as much as you wanted on monitors and you'd still not come even vaguely close to £400 worth of headset.
I've been driving the Nurburgring in games since 2004, and yet until driving it in VR I had absolutely no clue how much the elevation changed and how steep some sections are. Bathurst, Spa, all tracks that are defined by their topography, and yet on a flat screen, trust me, you've no idea
Once the resolution / screen door effect is totally overcome (personally I find it absolutely fine with the release version of the rift, whereas the dev kit I couldn't put up with) I can't imagine why anyone would use a monitor.
Thanks for this, now makes a lot more sense. What actual game are you using the VR set up with. You need the monitor for the game menus and such, but to actually drive you don't need to be anywhere near the PC. The headphones on the Oculus are surprisingly good too (despite looking like an after thought), I don't bother using my surround sound any more as they're more than up to the task 99% of the time.
Although on occasion it's nice to be able to FEEL the engine noise
The thing with VR is that the actual physical setup becomes largely irrelevant. People have invested thousands in huge triple monitor arrays, LED displays, tablets with additional data on etc. and realistically, they're all rendered irrelevant by putting on a headset, as then you're actually sat in the car... There really is no comparison, the extra amount of movement of the car you can 'feel', the ability to place the car so close to walls / apexes, the fact that the opponents are actually car sized and right next to you, the fact you can glance to your left / right to see where they are or look in your mirrors, the fact that you can see elevation, you could spend as much as you wanted on monitors and you'd still not come even vaguely close to £400 worth of headset.
I've been driving the Nurburgring in games since 2004, and yet until driving it in VR I had absolutely no clue how much the elevation changed and how steep some sections are. Bathurst, Spa, all tracks that are defined by their topography, and yet on a flat screen, trust me, you've no idea
Once the resolution / screen door effect is totally overcome (personally I find it absolutely fine with the release version of the rift, whereas the dev kit I couldn't put up with) I can't imagine why anyone would use a monitor.
julian64 said:
I was playing project cars last night with a G25 and three 26" screens set to 5760x1080.
I love the fact that you actually have to use the clutch to change gear and can blip the throttle. I don't like simulators with flappy paddles only or just a brake and accelerator. I was showing my 16 year old son how to heel and toe. If you don't use the clutch you hear the sound of crashing gears and the thing doesn't change.
Limitations are that you don't get penalised for not proper rev matching and the AI isn't that good.
I therefore don't think you have to spend big bucks mine is a i7 6800K running at 4.6Ghz watercooled with a 980ti
One of the reason I got it in the first place was that I live next to brands hatch, and it is very good for learning the lines prior to a trackday.
Wish I could find a set of TVR's including a Cerbera for it though.
Interesting you should mention that, I drove at IZone driver training and they had the Tvr T440r lemans thingy, but none of the road cars. I love the fact that you actually have to use the clutch to change gear and can blip the throttle. I don't like simulators with flappy paddles only or just a brake and accelerator. I was showing my 16 year old son how to heel and toe. If you don't use the clutch you hear the sound of crashing gears and the thing doesn't change.
Limitations are that you don't get penalised for not proper rev matching and the AI isn't that good.
I therefore don't think you have to spend big bucks mine is a i7 6800K running at 4.6Ghz watercooled with a 980ti
One of the reason I got it in the first place was that I live next to brands hatch, and it is very good for learning the lines prior to a trackday.
Wish I could find a set of TVR's including a Cerbera for it though.
SturdyHSV said:
Using a VR headset instead of a monitor (or monitors) is just a matter of displays. The rest of the equipment is identical. You'll want a decent graphics card and a decent CPU (for physics / AI calculations with big grids)
Consumer level equipment you're talking Logitech, Thrustmaster and Fanatec (in that price order)
I cannot emphasise enough how much VR adds to sim racing. Honestly, cannot stress that enough. It is everything. I have had one of these for about 7 years now (same wheel as pictured in fact, just an old Logitech G25)
That sits basically nose on to a 50" TV, so it's actually a pretty good size match and obviously reasonably immersive, but nothing even comes vaguely close to VR for things like driving games (or flight sims) when you also have the hardware in your hands. It also means you can get away with not having your ridiculous racing seat contraption right in the middle in front of the screen all the time and avoid having to move it about.
I think realistically you could spend
About £1,200 on a PC (1070 or 1080 gfx card)
£400 on an Oculus Rift
~£150 on a wheelstand pro or equivalent to start with (like this http://wheelstandpro.com/products/wheel-stand-pro-...
And then whatever steering wheel / pedals you fancy (probably fanatec as they have better pedal options and you're not too fussed on budget)
I imagine you'll be extremely satisfied with a combo like that (the VR alone will blow your mind) and then if you still want to go ballistic on SERIOUS hardware, your fanatec stuff will either serve as a useful backup, or fetch reasonable money on ebay once you've upgraded.
Once you do decide to go nuts, you'll want some bits like this:
https://heusinkveld.com/products/sim-pedals/sim-pe...
http://www.pro-sim.co.uk/shop/shifters/h-pattern-s...
https://sim-pli.city/collections/all/products/sw28... (as at £3k the leo bodnar is probably well in to the diminishing returns category!)
Game wise, iRacing is a lot of money (monthly subscription, stop paying and it all goes away) for what it is. Yes, it means you're racing with grown ups but you can get that with leagues and things online without having to pay for it. It depends if you're in it for the driving or for the racing.
Sim wise, realistically you're looking at:
Assetto Corsa
Dirt Rally
iRacing
rFactor2
There are others, Automobilista, Live For Speed, RaceRoom Race Experience etc. but the communities end up so small that you'll be struggling for online competition if that's your thing.
Personally, I play Assetto Corsa mostly. I don't even bother with online, the driving is so enjoyable and the AI reasonably decent to give me a racing fix if needed. Dirt Rally is magical because of the sound and stage design, and Live For Speed somehow just 'feels' like you're working with real tyres, but it's a very old game now.
Enjoy
Apologies for going back a few posts, what make is the chassis/cock pit in the picture you’ve posted please Sturdy? Consumer level equipment you're talking Logitech, Thrustmaster and Fanatec (in that price order)
I cannot emphasise enough how much VR adds to sim racing. Honestly, cannot stress that enough. It is everything. I have had one of these for about 7 years now (same wheel as pictured in fact, just an old Logitech G25)
That sits basically nose on to a 50" TV, so it's actually a pretty good size match and obviously reasonably immersive, but nothing even comes vaguely close to VR for things like driving games (or flight sims) when you also have the hardware in your hands. It also means you can get away with not having your ridiculous racing seat contraption right in the middle in front of the screen all the time and avoid having to move it about.
I think realistically you could spend
About £1,200 on a PC (1070 or 1080 gfx card)
£400 on an Oculus Rift
~£150 on a wheelstand pro or equivalent to start with (like this http://wheelstandpro.com/products/wheel-stand-pro-...
And then whatever steering wheel / pedals you fancy (probably fanatec as they have better pedal options and you're not too fussed on budget)
I imagine you'll be extremely satisfied with a combo like that (the VR alone will blow your mind) and then if you still want to go ballistic on SERIOUS hardware, your fanatec stuff will either serve as a useful backup, or fetch reasonable money on ebay once you've upgraded.
Once you do decide to go nuts, you'll want some bits like this:
https://heusinkveld.com/products/sim-pedals/sim-pe...
http://www.pro-sim.co.uk/shop/shifters/h-pattern-s...
https://sim-pli.city/collections/all/products/sw28... (as at £3k the leo bodnar is probably well in to the diminishing returns category!)
Game wise, iRacing is a lot of money (monthly subscription, stop paying and it all goes away) for what it is. Yes, it means you're racing with grown ups but you can get that with leagues and things online without having to pay for it. It depends if you're in it for the driving or for the racing.
Sim wise, realistically you're looking at:
Assetto Corsa
Dirt Rally
iRacing
rFactor2
There are others, Automobilista, Live For Speed, RaceRoom Race Experience etc. but the communities end up so small that you'll be struggling for online competition if that's your thing.
Personally, I play Assetto Corsa mostly. I don't even bother with online, the driving is so enjoyable and the AI reasonably decent to give me a racing fix if needed. Dirt Rally is magical because of the sound and stage design, and Live For Speed somehow just 'feels' like you're working with real tyres, but it's a very old game now.
Enjoy
SturdyHSV said:
It's strong with regards to the rig itself doesn't move about, and the pedals are extremely secure. The wheel mount has some give in it (the G25 only produces about 2.5Nm of torque apparently, a fancy direct drive servo wheel can be up to 28Nm, so I imagine that would expose more of this weakness...) and equally the shifter mount has a little flex to it (less of an issue when driving).
On the plus side it does look the part
Something like this is 'cheaper' (although no seat / mounts) and will be significantly more adjustable and stronger, but it is ultimately a bunch of aluminium box section...
https://sim-lab.eu/product/sim-racing-rig-gt1/
If you weren't all the way down in Kent (I'm by Northampton) I'd suggest you pop over and give it a go, it'd be a good sample of the bottom end of the range wheel wise but with the benefit of VR and a proper seat etc.
Thanks Sturdy very generous of you to offer. If I was closer I’d take you up on that. Happy though just to have your info.On the plus side it does look the part
Something like this is 'cheaper' (although no seat / mounts) and will be significantly more adjustable and stronger, but it is ultimately a bunch of aluminium box section...
https://sim-lab.eu/product/sim-racing-rig-gt1/
If you weren't all the way down in Kent (I'm by Northampton) I'd suggest you pop over and give it a go, it'd be a good sample of the bottom end of the range wheel wise but with the benefit of VR and a proper seat etc.
The vision racer rigs do look strong even if they’re not the latest designs. I’d prefer strong to be honest. I’m fairly heavy lol
Thinking about it need to work out what to do pc wise first.
Edited by m4tti on Tuesday 5th December 07:37
itsallyellow said:
I’ve been using a vesaro rig for a few years now and I have to say it’s brilliant!
I didn’t want to spend the money for the top end direct drive wheels so went with the Fanatec option. It’s great! Brilliant feel and excellent functionality.
For the pedals I also went for the Fanatec V3 with extra brake damper. The clutch and throttle are perfect and the brake is very good, it does take a bit of getting used to where it will lock the wheels though.
I only use the iracing software as I feel all these others just feel like a game in comparison.
During winter when I’m not racing I find it really does help me keep my eye in. Even better if I’m going to a track I have driven on for a while, it’s not quite the real thing but close. Normally I find I need about 30 minutes of actual track time to feel 100% comfortable in real life, however if I have done a few hours on the sim before hand I’m pretty much there after a couple of laps.
Ps Hi Julian! Long time no see.
Hi Michael, which vesaro rig are you using?I didn’t want to spend the money for the top end direct drive wheels so went with the Fanatec option. It’s great! Brilliant feel and excellent functionality.
For the pedals I also went for the Fanatec V3 with extra brake damper. The clutch and throttle are perfect and the brake is very good, it does take a bit of getting used to where it will lock the wheels though.
I only use the iracing software as I feel all these others just feel like a game in comparison.
During winter when I’m not racing I find it really does help me keep my eye in. Even better if I’m going to a track I have driven on for a while, it’s not quite the real thing but close. Normally I find I need about 30 minutes of actual track time to feel 100% comfortable in real life, however if I have done a few hours on the sim before hand I’m pretty much there after a couple of laps.
Ps Hi Julian! Long time no see.
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