Anyone else not impressed with the PS5 so far?
Discussion
Gotta say, I personally think Sony have dropped the ball on this.
Always seems to happen when one of the big boys gets ahead, they get complacent and mess up like MS did with the disastrous original 'Xbox One' launch announcement, from which they never really recovered IMO.
Sony did some great stuff with the PS3 after they fell behind MS but now that the PS4 has come to dominate this generation, they appear to be assuming that everyone with a PS4 will just migrate to the PS5.
Tech specs aren't anything astounding ... about what you would expect for a new generation of machine based on the x86 architecture coming out almost 8 years after it's predecessor. If anything they are slightly behind Xbox Series X ... just as Xbox One was slightly behind PS4.
But where they've really dropped the ball is backwards compatibility. It's not clear that the machine is inherently PS4 back compatible - despite being based on the same underlying CPU and GPU architecture. All this talk of 'most of the top 100 games will be compatible by launch' just makes me think that work is going to be put into games to make them run and many games may never run.
Given that most of my PS4 library is digital downloads, I have the choice of selling my old hardware and losing access to the games or having to keep another box around to play them. I already kept a PS3 around for older games when I finally got a PS4 Pro - not just to play PS3 titles but also PS2 and PS1, plus not to mention it is a better Blu Ray player than PS4 and also does a really good job of playing Audio CDs. The PS4 won't play any older games and doesn't even support audio CD.
MS on the other hand should pretty much support the entire XBox One library straight off the bat (many with enhancements) and also a good chunk of Xbox360 and Xbox titles even.
I have so much barely played stuff on my PS4 that it'll be a couple of years before I even consider moving generations but if Sony continue their current trajectory, I may well switch back to Xbox (I got back into console gaming with the Original XBox but eventually switched to PS3, though I did eventually pick up a cheap Xbox360 too).
Always seems to happen when one of the big boys gets ahead, they get complacent and mess up like MS did with the disastrous original 'Xbox One' launch announcement, from which they never really recovered IMO.
Sony did some great stuff with the PS3 after they fell behind MS but now that the PS4 has come to dominate this generation, they appear to be assuming that everyone with a PS4 will just migrate to the PS5.
Tech specs aren't anything astounding ... about what you would expect for a new generation of machine based on the x86 architecture coming out almost 8 years after it's predecessor. If anything they are slightly behind Xbox Series X ... just as Xbox One was slightly behind PS4.
But where they've really dropped the ball is backwards compatibility. It's not clear that the machine is inherently PS4 back compatible - despite being based on the same underlying CPU and GPU architecture. All this talk of 'most of the top 100 games will be compatible by launch' just makes me think that work is going to be put into games to make them run and many games may never run.
Given that most of my PS4 library is digital downloads, I have the choice of selling my old hardware and losing access to the games or having to keep another box around to play them. I already kept a PS3 around for older games when I finally got a PS4 Pro - not just to play PS3 titles but also PS2 and PS1, plus not to mention it is a better Blu Ray player than PS4 and also does a really good job of playing Audio CDs. The PS4 won't play any older games and doesn't even support audio CD.
MS on the other hand should pretty much support the entire XBox One library straight off the bat (many with enhancements) and also a good chunk of Xbox360 and Xbox titles even.
I have so much barely played stuff on my PS4 that it'll be a couple of years before I even consider moving generations but if Sony continue their current trajectory, I may well switch back to Xbox (I got back into console gaming with the Original XBox but eventually switched to PS3, though I did eventually pick up a cheap Xbox360 too).
DanL said:
Realistically, once you’ve moved to a new console, how often do you play last gen games? I’ve got a bunch of PS3 games and a console gathering dust since I moved to the PS4, and if/when I upgrade to a PS5 I doubt I’ll play anything I own on the PS4.
That said, I don’t generally go back and replay any game I own, so perhaps I’m not typical...
I have a ton of games still unplayed or nowhere near finished on my PS4. Even in a few years it's likely I'll still want to play some of what I already have in my PS4 collection.That said, I don’t generally go back and replay any game I own, so perhaps I’m not typical...
It's not like the next generation of consoles is completely architecturally different to that which has gone before. Since PS4/Xbox One they are more like custom PCs ... the next gen is just more powerful CPU and GPU hardware to what is in the current gen, but inherently based around the same underlying standards. Imagine that a new PC based on the next Intel or AMD chips/graphics cards wouldn't support existing software - hardly anyone would buy it.
Because of the popularity of digital downloads now, selling the older hardware means losing your library of games (and you can't even get value out of reselling them to the new hardware owner) unless you want to keep the old box behind. I kept my old PS3 around simply because I could play so much great PS3, PS2 and PS1 stuff on it - as well as it being much superior for Blu Ray playback to PS4.
Sony are now doing what MS did when we moved from Xbox360/PS3 generation to Xbox One/PS4 ... Taking it for granted that they could drop consumer-friendly features to make more money. Although I have a load of Sony Playstation stuff (OG PS3, PS3 Super Slim, PS Vita, PSTV and PS4 Pro) I'm not going to just go out and get a PS5 if they follow an anti-consumer course like they have been doing.
anarki said:
I won't be buying either console on launch to be honest. I have done in the past (Dreamcast, Original Xbox, Xbox 360 and PS4)
I tend to find it takes a while before consoles become saturated with games to play (the ones that appeal to me at least)
The PS4 is a good example of this, very few games I fancied playing in the first 18 months of its launch, so I ended up selling it. I've recently just picked up one due to their being a dozen or so games I really want to play on it. To some this may seem bonkers as there is a new gen round the corner, but for me it means I get a console thats had any bugs ironed out (hardware wise) and a lot of the games are cheap to buy.
My new strategy going forwards is to wait at least a year to see how things are panning out. I did this with the switch, picked one up about a year after launch, as i could see the direction it was heading and the games that were either out for it, or coming out, I really liked the look of.
I'm not a die hard fanboy of any company but the Xbox One really didn't appeal to me as the majority of its games are available on the PC (I have a decent PC). I buy a console for its games and the Playstation, at least in my opinion, has the better exclusive titles that aren't availble to play elsewhere. If that is the case with the next gen, then I'll grab a PS5.
I agree - the last console that I bought at release was the Dreamcast. It was a great machine and got me back into console gaming.I tend to find it takes a while before consoles become saturated with games to play (the ones that appeal to me at least)
The PS4 is a good example of this, very few games I fancied playing in the first 18 months of its launch, so I ended up selling it. I've recently just picked up one due to their being a dozen or so games I really want to play on it. To some this may seem bonkers as there is a new gen round the corner, but for me it means I get a console thats had any bugs ironed out (hardware wise) and a lot of the games are cheap to buy.
My new strategy going forwards is to wait at least a year to see how things are panning out. I did this with the switch, picked one up about a year after launch, as i could see the direction it was heading and the games that were either out for it, or coming out, I really liked the look of.
I'm not a die hard fanboy of any company but the Xbox One really didn't appeal to me as the majority of its games are available on the PC (I have a decent PC). I buy a console for its games and the Playstation, at least in my opinion, has the better exclusive titles that aren't availble to play elsewhere. If that is the case with the next gen, then I'll grab a PS5.
Then I moved to the OG Xbox after it had been out for a while ... I liked the built in HDD/ethernet and the fact that it was moddable by that stage.
After that, on to the PS3 after it had been out for about a year and was about to be replaced with the model without PS2 BC and SACD support. A great machine but never really fully utilised except by a couple of titles.
After that, I got a PS4 Pro when it started to get discounted deals. Another good machine but with shortcomings such that I have kept my PS3 around (and even bought a Super Slim Model for my second setup).
I'll give it at least 12 months (probably 18) before I think of getting into next gen. By that stage the PS5 may well have addressed some of the issues I have with it and it's architecture may have proved to be useful. But as far as I can see, the Xbox Series X is looking better at launch, at least based on what details we know.
anarki said:
The PS2 still holds the record for the most consoles ever sold (155 million) it dominated. The original Xbox sold 24 million for comparison.
The 360/PS3 generation was much closer. The 360 enjoyed a very successful start due to multiple factors, but the PS3 enjoyed a successful mid/late life and it nudged ahead in overall sales - 87million to the 360's 84million. The Wii sold over 100 million though.
That was the closest that MS has been to being on top for a console gen.
The Xbox lost out in total sales largely because the Japanese wouldn't buy it.The 360/PS3 generation was much closer. The 360 enjoyed a very successful start due to multiple factors, but the PS3 enjoyed a successful mid/late life and it nudged ahead in overall sales - 87million to the 360's 84million. The Wii sold over 100 million though.
That was the closest that MS has been to being on top for a console gen.
The PS3 at launch was a bit of a disaster .... overpriced and late and quite polarising design. However it was a technical tour de force, at least the initial model was. They cut out large chunks of functionality later on to compete price-wise with Xbox360.
On the other hand, the Xbox 360 was pretty crude technical wise but it was first to market and cheaper. And because of the complicated design of the PS3 very little took advantage of its power and in fact, most PS3 games ended up being inferior ports from XB360 originals.
I liked the look of the Demon's Souls remake, more Horizon Zero Dawn is always welcome and the Ratchet and Clank demo looked impressive (especially as it looked to be actual gameplay) but not overly impressed with the next-gen-ness of most of the other stuff. A lot of it looked like you could do it on the existing generation, well PS4 Pro anyway.
Actual console design itself I thought looked naff but I can appreciate that's a matter of taste (the next XBox isn't exactly a looker either but at least it's not outlandish and should tuck away nicely). PS5 looks even worse when horizontal. As others have pointed out, it will be physically huge too. I'll definitely wait for their hardware refresh after 18-24 months when they'll hopefully come up with a more sensible case.
What they seem to be doing is trying to push PS4 owners to move to it by dropping support for PS4 on a lot of the big name new releases, especially fan-favourite sequels and remakes. Dodgy strategy IMO. It's like Sony want to try to pretend the PS5 some sort of radically different architecture (eg PS2>PS3) when it's basically the same underlying CPU and GPU architecture but with much more powerful, modern revisions of it.
The super-duper-fast SSD is still more marketing hype than some sort of game-changer as far as I'm concerned. Maybe we'll see a couple of titles developed to specifically use it but I doubt it's some sort of new paradigm. Also, that 825gigs is going to get full, fast, despite what Sony are saying about new games supposedly not needing to be as large as PS4 installs. So people are gonna have to get an external drive and shuffle games between it and the SSD.
Actual console design itself I thought looked naff but I can appreciate that's a matter of taste (the next XBox isn't exactly a looker either but at least it's not outlandish and should tuck away nicely). PS5 looks even worse when horizontal. As others have pointed out, it will be physically huge too. I'll definitely wait for their hardware refresh after 18-24 months when they'll hopefully come up with a more sensible case.
What they seem to be doing is trying to push PS4 owners to move to it by dropping support for PS4 on a lot of the big name new releases, especially fan-favourite sequels and remakes. Dodgy strategy IMO. It's like Sony want to try to pretend the PS5 some sort of radically different architecture (eg PS2>PS3) when it's basically the same underlying CPU and GPU architecture but with much more powerful, modern revisions of it.
The super-duper-fast SSD is still more marketing hype than some sort of game-changer as far as I'm concerned. Maybe we'll see a couple of titles developed to specifically use it but I doubt it's some sort of new paradigm. Also, that 825gigs is going to get full, fast, despite what Sony are saying about new games supposedly not needing to be as large as PS4 installs. So people are gonna have to get an external drive and shuffle games between it and the SSD.
Jasandjules said:
There is a readily available comparison of game load times between the ps4 and ps5. Have a look, see if you still don't think it is going to make a massive difference.
For me I can't wait to see a new Fallout of Skyrim where you can fast travel somewhere and it will draw the area in seconds.
Wouldn't be too hard to beat the current generation - the PS4 load speed seemed to be pretty bad even with a SATA SSD fitted in place of the HDD. Pretty sure I read that the SATA2 interface on that was actually connected through an internal USB controller. The Pro improved data transfer speeds from SATA3 disk a bit according to reviews at the time of release but even with a hybrid SSD/HDD in mine it's still not really that great, even when the SSD part is in play.For me I can't wait to see a new Fallout of Skyrim where you can fast travel somewhere and it will draw the area in seconds.
Even the cheap 1500MBps NVMe drive I have in my PC loads significantly faster than my PS4 Pro.
I suspect the perceived difference between the ~2.4GBps of the Xbox's SSD vs the ~5GBps of the PS5s is not actually going to be 2x for actual game loading in the real world.
Mafffew said:
Apparently the article was wrong - https://twitter.com/insomniacgames/status/12714682...
From the various info I've read and seen, I get the impression that the game is based on the same engine as PS4 Spiderman and could have been DLC or at least a short standalone like Infamous: Festival of Blood was on PS3 but Sony appear to be making it a separate title for PS5 (presumably with some enhancements) as a way to induce gamers to move.I just get the feeling that Sony are becoming arrogant and assuming that they have a captive PS4 audience that they can push to PS5 by making stuff that could also have been realised pretty well on PS4, PS5 exclusive.
It's not like the PS5 is a massively different new architecture like we saw going from PS2>PS3 or even PS3>PS4. It's just an evolution of the same AMD sourced CPU/GPU underpinnings we see in the PS4. More powerful, sure, so you can expect higher resolutions and framerates but an awful lot of stuff could work very well on PS4 too, especially PS4 Pro.
hyphen said:
Consoles are for people who dont want to use a pc for gaming.
A lot of people now have both. I quite like tinkering with the hardware and Linux on it and the gaming potential is unsurpassed, plus you can run the various software applications that you likely use at work. Downside is that you have to put a little more work into it to get everything set up the way you want.And if you get something like an Nvidia ShieldTV box (or any STB/ Smart TV that can run Moonlight and/or the SteamLink client) you can pretty much play your games on your telly, from your sofa, exactly as if they were console game - which eliminates a large reason why I might NOT want to game on it ... Too much like sitting at a work desk in front of a PC screen.
Leicester Loyal said:
If true, that's pretty impressive for the Specs ... I'll likely be spending almost that much just for a video card upgrade once the RTX3060 comes out.I will still wait for the PS5 hardware refresh a couple of years down the line before making a next-gen purchase though.
Narcisus said:
The more I look at it the less I like it... It's a bit of a monstrosity ... If it was half the size at least you could hide it somewhere ...
The NG Xbox looks pretty brutal too but overall is more compact, regular shaped, and looks like it could be easily tucked away out of sight.Both systems are likely to need good airflow though so simply bunging them in a closed space could be a bit dodgy.
ajprice said:
I have the first versions of Xbox One and PS4, I had the original 360 and fat PS3 too. I'll probably do the same with the new ones. Does anybody leave it until the updated versions (Slim/Pro/One X) to update their stuff
to next gen rather than the Day 1 versions?
The only console I ever bought 'day one' (or in the first week) was the Dreamcast. Didn't really regret it as it was quite a special bit of hardware, really felt like something unique.to next gen rather than the Day 1 versions?
Eventually moved to an Xbox (original) when it had been out for a while and had changed to the smaller controllers instead of the 'Dukes' which had always put me off.
Got a PS3 about a year after it was released, just before they dropped the OG model which could play PS2 games and SACDs for the cost-reduced successor which dropped that and a load of other neat hardware feaures. I basically bought it at that point because I liked the OGs features and wanted to get the model before it was discontinued.
Picked up an X360 cheap on a Black Friday sale, the last revision of the first design just before the heavily redesigned Slim version, hence the cheap price. Never used it much though.
Waited for PS4 Pro before making jump to that gen and also waited until there were deals on the Pro before spashing the cash.
I have waaaaay to much unplayed or hardly played stuff now on PS4 format (not to mention an expanding Stream Library on PC) so I certainly won't be buying either PS5 or Xbox Series X until they have been out for a while, probably when there is a hardware refresh and there is a cheaper, smaller case redesign.
I may even just go all in on PC and stream those games to my Nvidia Shield for 'console' gaming on the TV.
ajprice said:
Unless there's an SSD slot on the back like the Xbox (we haven't seen the back of the PS5 yet) it would depend on whether an extermal USB 3 connection is as fast as the internal SSD, I don't think it would be.
From what I can tell, the PS5 seems to be using an M.2 slot for the SSD using NVMe on PCI Express 4.0.https://www.tweaktown.com/news/71340/understanding...
That would imply that you could fit third party M.2 PCIe4.0 NVMe drives; The article above says 'Select PC SSDs' which means either Sony have to explicitly enable those models in the OS and will block non-authorised SSDs or else manufacturers have to fit some sort of hardware chip supplied by Sony. Probably the former. Almost certainly some sort of licensing fee will be levied by Sony to the manufacturer so those drives are going to be a little bit more expensive than most, I would say (PCIe 4.0 NVMe drives are not exactly cheap as it is).
A Winner Is You said:
Surely they'll have to match or better the price of the Series X.
Not necessarily ... Perhaps it's just me but (as a PS3 and PS4 owner) I feel that Sony have regressed back to the mentality that they had when bringing out the PS3 intially. ie. They have a huge lead from the previous generation and that their player base will follow them no matter how much it costs and how much support they drop for older games and peripherals.Personally, I'm leaning heavily towards getting a Series S on the 24 month deal. Compact unit I can tuck out of the way (keeping my PS4 Pro in place), hardly anything to pay up front, a big library of games from day one and also can access a big library on the PC side too. Pretty fantastic value.
A Winner Is You said:
One of the big reasons the Playstation brand even took off in the first place was they waited for Sega to announce the pricing of their Saturn, then immediately undercut it. I'm old enough to remember people mocking the fact that a company who made hi-fis thought they were going to cut it in the console industry, especially using cds which had long load times. Hopefully they haven't forgotten that.
As it stands right now the Xbox looks like the better deal, but there's no new games I want to play on it.
I think the PS1 succeeded because it was just so far ahead of anything seen before. I remember being unable to believe that something so powerful could exist back when I first saw it - it was a bit like having a high end Silicon Graphics workstation in a box, in your living room. The Saturn was already pretty much a flop - extremely expensive and delayed with a small library of software on account of the 'difficult to program for' architecture (something that would hurt the PS3 too).As it stands right now the Xbox looks like the better deal, but there's no new games I want to play on it.
And speaking as someone with a huge backlog of games on PS4, PC (and even PS3) I'm beyond wanting to buy a console to get a specific game ... I just have too many purchased games yet to play. I'll be putting money into beefing up my PC with a new-gen graphics card and buying future games primarily on that platform, after they've been out for a while and get discounted. But a small, discreet, powerful console that doesn't require faffing about as much and comes with a ready made library (along with a corresponding library for PC also) at an almost negligible monthly price - probably less than many people pay for a mobile contract - is something I could well buy into.
I think that the explosion in the popularity of videogames has lead to a situation whereby games have been commoditised. I don't think I'm the only one with a large library of unplayed games who doesn't have the compulsion to always rush out to get the latest, greatest. Maybe Sony can reignite that, we'll see how they do.
gregs656 said:
Keen to see pricing tomorrow. I reckon they are going to push hard to under cut the series x.
They will have to take quite a substantial loss if they want to do that. If you look at the cost of everything that is going in there, it is at least $499 if not quite a bit more. It was originally rumoured that the PS5 was originally set to launch at maybe as much as $599 for the disc version.I don't know if it's still the case, but Sony were once leaning heavily on Playstation 4 profits to support the business as a whole so they won't be keen to take losses for long on the new generation of hardware ... it may pay back longer term in revenue on games but they will want to be profitable ASAP.
Also, rumours they are having production problems:
https://www.androidcentral.com/ps5-production-repo...
That will hurt them on volume - though I guess if they are set to lose a lot of money on each unit then maybe not a bad thing to sell less
I would guess that the XBox Series X is actually cheaper to make ... That much vaunted 5.5GB/s SSD in the PS5 is going to be pricey all by itself.
usn90 said:
The digital price has certainly took some steam of the series S, £100 more for a ps5 rather than a half baked console is a good move by Sony.
Do have Microsoft to thank for bringing the ps5 prices down if rumours are to be believed
110 quid more, to be picky, and they don't seem to have a 'subscription' (ie finance) plan though that sort of thing could change.Do have Microsoft to thank for bringing the ps5 prices down if rumours are to be believed
The PS Plus thing was a bit of a transparent attempt to match the Game Pass - for me, the most interesting thing about it confirmed what games that I have should definitely be compatible with PS5 at launch. Seems to be that only PS5 owners get it - screw you PS4 userbase
Though, I already have most of those on my PS4 it has to be said that they are a great selection of games even if they don't match what you get with Game Pass.Still leaning towards the Series S deal (as I can get additional value out of the PC library and Xcloud on the Game Pass) and waiting for the facelifted PS5 that we will get a year or two down the line to replace my PS4 Pro.
lazybike said:
I'm confused...so you can't play PS4 discs on a PS5 but you can download the games for free on PS collection plus?
I don't see any reason why phyiscal discs wouldn't be compatible (assuming the game itself was compatible, which is not assured for all games). The PS Plus collection is just some sort of deal to compete with the Xbox Game Pass that MS offer ... though quite inferior I would say. But for a brand new owner who didn't have a PS4 it is a great collection of games - I say this as someone who owns nearly all those games already.usn90 said:
Yes the finance package was a very good move, I’m a little surprised Sony haven’t implemented that themselves.
Not the best line up of launch titles for my taste, although will obviously have call of duty, this is where I feel Sony’s loyalty does them no favours, had they “saved” the last of us 2 for a ps5 exclusive launch title if would have transformed the line up, they did the same thing with the PS4 By releasing GT6 and the last of us 1 months before PS4 launch.
I say loyalty, it could be just as much to do with player base but can’t help but feel it would do wonders for new hardware sales
Ironically, I feel that both next-gen consoles kind of appeal more to the 'other side' from the current gen. As a PS4 Pro owner (and PS3, and Vita) I like the idea of the S with the super cheap entry price and the fantastic Game Pass deal which also benefits me for PC and streaming. The Sony revamped 'PS Plus for PS5' is mostly irrelevent since I already own those games. My tellies are all 1080p so 4K doesn't matter to me.Not the best line up of launch titles for my taste, although will obviously have call of duty, this is where I feel Sony’s loyalty does them no favours, had they “saved” the last of us 2 for a ps5 exclusive launch title if would have transformed the line up, they did the same thing with the PS4 By releasing GT6 and the last of us 1 months before PS4 launch.
I say loyalty, it could be just as much to do with player base but can’t help but feel it would do wonders for new hardware sales
Edited by usn90 on Wednesday 16th September 23:11
On the other hand, if you currently have an Xbox One of some kind then the PS5 offers access to a bunch of exclusives plus some very nice PS4 titles, also mostly exclusive.
In both cases, you can keep your existing console, plus PS5 still doesn't seem to offer universal compatibility in the way that Xbox does so many current owners may want to keep their PS4/Pro around anyway. In either case, the more affordable digital only versions mean you can't play your physical discs from the last gen if you are already in that 'ecosystem'. They are almost encouraging people to switch.
Good news on the backwards compatibility front, Sony definitively state that 99% of PS4 games will run on the PS5:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/video-games/2020/09...
Also, a number of games thought to be PS5 exclusive will also come out on PS4 and maybe even PC. (eg. Horizon: Forbidden West and the Miles Morales Spiderman game).
https://www.washingtonpost.com/video-games/2020/09...
Also, a number of games thought to be PS5 exclusive will also come out on PS4 and maybe even PC. (eg. Horizon: Forbidden West and the Miles Morales Spiderman game).
Leicester Loyal said:
Decided I'm going to wait for the bundles before getting one, I'm in no rush. I'd say around Xmas or New Year I'll probably snap one up.
Likely to be very hard to get one at Christmas and Sony won't need to offer a bundle to sell all their stock at that time ... but by Q2 2021 should be easy to source one as well as maybe the first signs of bundling once they become available in volume.Gassing Station | Video Games | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff