S2/S3: Looking to buy - thoughts & opinions welcome
Discussion
Afternoon All,
Thought it worth hopping on here to say Hello, and get some thoughts and advice for current S -series owners. Have got a couple of cars in my stable already (911 Turbo / MG Midget 1500) - both of which do for me exactly what I want them too do. The Porsche is a track / euro trip car, the Midget 1500 is a restoration I carried out a number of years back, with a few period mods, that brings a smile to my face every time I drive it. And that's where the TVR S2/S3/V8s comes in.
I love my 911 (and Porsche), but to get any kind of real 'involvement' I have to be driving at licence losing speeds, or I'm eating through consumables on the track (which is fun but costly). The other point is, my Midget now requires very little work, and getting my hands dirty is always part of the appeal. Again, I do work on the Porsche, but there is only so much I want to do given the complexity / value of it.
Therefore I'm after something quick & raw that I can work on myself, that sounds amazing, that you have to drive to get the most from it. My Dad had a lovely 4.0 Chimera when I was younger.. it was the first car I drove with any substance, and I always vowed I'd get a TVR at some point... but I was never sure which it would be and when. Nearly bought a Sagaris... but decided with a lack of talent I'd be better off with the 911.
After spending the last couple of years watching classic TVR's race at Oulton Park / Silverstone I was always really impressed - if money was no object I'd be purchasing a Vixen - unfortunately, it is! Which leads me on to the S2 / S3. From what I can tell, you get all the benefits of a classic (no aids / no help / 'basic' mechanicals) with a useable amount of power and sharp handling. However, having never driven one, I'm purely going by what I've read!
Have also had a good chat with 'Longers' who I believe in on here, who has only convinced me further. Thanks mate
What I'd really appreciate is some views on what drew you in a S series car in the first place?
How are they to drive?
How are they to work on?
S2/3 or V8s? (personally think I'd rather the 2.9 V6)
What are the big things to look for - aside from the Outriggers of course.
Thought it worth hopping on here to say Hello, and get some thoughts and advice for current S -series owners. Have got a couple of cars in my stable already (911 Turbo / MG Midget 1500) - both of which do for me exactly what I want them too do. The Porsche is a track / euro trip car, the Midget 1500 is a restoration I carried out a number of years back, with a few period mods, that brings a smile to my face every time I drive it. And that's where the TVR S2/S3/V8s comes in.
I love my 911 (and Porsche), but to get any kind of real 'involvement' I have to be driving at licence losing speeds, or I'm eating through consumables on the track (which is fun but costly). The other point is, my Midget now requires very little work, and getting my hands dirty is always part of the appeal. Again, I do work on the Porsche, but there is only so much I want to do given the complexity / value of it.
Therefore I'm after something quick & raw that I can work on myself, that sounds amazing, that you have to drive to get the most from it. My Dad had a lovely 4.0 Chimera when I was younger.. it was the first car I drove with any substance, and I always vowed I'd get a TVR at some point... but I was never sure which it would be and when. Nearly bought a Sagaris... but decided with a lack of talent I'd be better off with the 911.
After spending the last couple of years watching classic TVR's race at Oulton Park / Silverstone I was always really impressed - if money was no object I'd be purchasing a Vixen - unfortunately, it is! Which leads me on to the S2 / S3. From what I can tell, you get all the benefits of a classic (no aids / no help / 'basic' mechanicals) with a useable amount of power and sharp handling. However, having never driven one, I'm purely going by what I've read!
Have also had a good chat with 'Longers' who I believe in on here, who has only convinced me further. Thanks mate
What I'd really appreciate is some views on what drew you in a S series car in the first place?
How are they to drive?
How are they to work on?
S2/3 or V8s? (personally think I'd rather the 2.9 V6)
What are the big things to look for - aside from the Outriggers of course.
All -really appreciate the responses here! From what I'm reading - a V6 is probably right for me after all, I don't really want a GT cruiser, but a fun, chuckable car that give me the same ear to ear grin my Midget gives me.
Pretty clear that an S2 / S3 is the right choice, and seems I have to take a good look at the following
Outriggers / Chassis
Brake Servo
Electrics
All the other usual stuff!
Pretty clear that I have to be quite careful on my choice of car - the following is for sale down the road from me, but as Longers has suggested to me, it looks like a mix of an S1/S2. Called the garage, who in all honesty had no idea on any of the finer details, which always worries me! Know what your selling.. right?
Graham stated it had been a barn car, they've had it a few months, but had little interest. Funny thing is, a found a pic of it at Weston Park car show from 2015 just by putting the reg into Google.. funny looking barn
He's willing to put the car on the ramps for me, and talks about it being immaculate (aside from the bits that aren't).
https://www.grahamwalkerltd.co.uk/tvr-290-s-2.9-ra...
If anyone knows this car I'd appreciate it. Despite the salesman rubbish, I wont judge a car until I've seen it / smelt it / driven it
Pretty clear that an S2 / S3 is the right choice, and seems I have to take a good look at the following
Outriggers / Chassis
Brake Servo
Electrics
All the other usual stuff!
Pretty clear that I have to be quite careful on my choice of car - the following is for sale down the road from me, but as Longers has suggested to me, it looks like a mix of an S1/S2. Called the garage, who in all honesty had no idea on any of the finer details, which always worries me! Know what your selling.. right?
Graham stated it had been a barn car, they've had it a few months, but had little interest. Funny thing is, a found a pic of it at Weston Park car show from 2015 just by putting the reg into Google.. funny looking barn
He's willing to put the car on the ramps for me, and talks about it being immaculate (aside from the bits that aren't).
https://www.grahamwalkerltd.co.uk/tvr-290-s-2.9-ra...
If anyone knows this car I'd appreciate it. Despite the salesman rubbish, I wont judge a car until I've seen it / smelt it / driven it
AutoAndy said:
Looks like a very mechanically sound car! Shame you're so far away from me! Although... Shropshire is miles away from anywhere! phillpot said:
There is unofficially an S1.5, basically a mish mash of whatever they had to use up as changing from the 1 to the 2!
For that sort of money I'd want receipts and photo's of a thorough chassis refurb while it was in the barn
Exactly! Will take a look at it - but I think its c. £2k over priced. Any views on how it should be priced?For that sort of money I'd want receipts and photo's of a thorough chassis refurb while it was in the barn
Thanks,
James
Kitchski said:
I'm planning to create an in-depth 'buyers guide' for the S, which I'll post to the Southways website. I see these cars all the time, drive everything from brilliant examples to absolute shonkers, and am also an owner. My leg's aching and I'm putting off some paperwork for the accounts so I'll knock this watered-down version together quickly while I neck my cup of tea!
Three big potential expenses on an S (or most TVRs, in fairness)
1. Chassis - the most expensive thing to sort (if you get it done properly). It's not just outriggers, it's everything (in fact on an S chassis, the rear beam is more important than the outriggers, and much trickier to sort out.) Beware cars that have 'had the outriggers changed', as while there is every possibility the job has been completed to a good standard, and the rest of the chassis genuinely is sound, it's more likely that it hasn't been. I've never had an S come in that has had the outriggers done in the past and thought "Oh, that's a decent job!" Expect to spend £5-10k (depending on how crazy you want to go), though if you can spanner yourself, you can drastically reduce this.
2. Bodywork - paintwork on a TVR is expensive, if you want a good job. The bodyshop will probably have to remove one or two previous attempts on most cars, too. Doors drop off too, as the retaining bobbins in the GRP break out - complete pain to put it right if you want the repair to look respectable. Expect to pay around £4-6k.
3. Interior - if you do all the labour yourself, you could fully retrim a TVR S for about £2-2.5k (incl. roof). If you want someone to do it for you, double it (though the odds are not every single component would need replacing).
As far as the models go:
S1 - Usually has the 2.8 engine fitted (though some very late cars might have moved over to the 2.9). Don't discount a good S1 for a s
t S2. A good car is a good car.
Pros: Relatively simple injection system. Probably the best value S in terms of purchase price alone. Makes a unique sound amongst the S range (raspy, old school, lots of pops and bangs). In my experience doing chassis', white S1 chassis have tended to fare better than the darker red later S3/V8S spec chassis', which suggests the original coating was better. Obviously all of them will pretty much need the chassis doing by now if they haven't had it already, but prolonging the condition of the steel underneath helps.
Cons: The slowest of the bunch (worth about 15-25bhp less than the 2.9 - ignore TVR's BS power claims - though in fairness no S model is about speed, unless it's modified). Build quality on the earliest cars was pretty bad, along with the quality of materials, and build improved as the S aged. Small doors (like the S2) which can make it trickier for people to get into and out. Wind-up windows (if you class that as a con).
S2 - As per S1, but with electric windows (usually) and the 2.9 engine. Very slightly revised rear suspension settings, though you'd be hard pressed to notice the difference.
Pros: Bit more grunt than a 2.8. Sounds great again - nothing like the 2.8, more like an off-beat V8. Most common S out there, so usually easier to find one.
Cons: Still has the small doors. EFI system can be a pig if it throws its toys out the pram.
S3 - As per S2, but with newer dashboard (which looks older in style, weirdly) and larger doors, plus some other tit bits like optional driving lamps etc.
Pros: Larger doors - make a big difference to the ease of access. Build quality noticeable better than S1/S2, along with quality of leather/carpet etc. Revised rear trailing arms with adjustable toe angle. A little bit less 'kit car' in feel than the S1/S2.
Cons: Tend to cost a bit more than the other V6 models. Chassis seems to be the most easily affected for rot (in my experience, which follows the same pattern in Chimaera/Griffith models, where the later ones tend to fare worse for corrosion, but are better built).
(I won't bother doing the S4 - you're unlikely to find one!)
V8S - Totally different animal to the V6 cars. A very different drive to the V6, both in terms of feel and character.
Pros: Much quicker than a V6 in a straight line (I've seen people say there's not much in it - only true if the V8 driver isn't trying), though around the bends the V8 feels more of a handful. Revised suspension with wider track. Disc brakes all round. Limited slip diff. Exhaust doesn't fit as badly as the V6 cars (where it's a complete afterthought). They sound great (best sounding RV8 TVR in my opinion). You get the better build of the S3-spec car.
Cons: More expensive to buy and marginally more expensive to run. Camshafts are made of chocolate. Gearchange can be a bit average (though it's possible to improve it).
Overall, they're great fun. None of them are what I'd class as 'fast', but to worry about that is missing the point. They're all about fun, and any well-sorted S will put a sizable grin on your face in the right conditions. They're ongoing projects, and they're never finished. NOBODY'S car has nothing left to do on it, including the ones for sale! The roof is a PITA to erect and take down, but with the roof down it's a great experience.
My advice would be to buy the most sorted car you can. If you can find one that's had the chassis, body and interior done, it'll cost more but possibly save you money in the future, or you can buy cheap and get one or more of the three attended to. You rarely break even with these cars though, so you do it for the love, not the bank balance!
I've not got time for more, but if you've got any Q's I'm happy to help
Fantastic response Kitchski, exactly what I was looking to understand. The real driver for me with these cars is just that - the grin factor. I do want to get the experience of speed, and I do want to know that the car requires driving to get the most from it. If I reference back to my 911 Turbo - which I would reference as my friendly pet Lion. Be nice to it, keep within it's limits and ease it into corners and it is tame, soft and to an extent, a pussy cat. But if you piss it off, attack the throttle, hit the corners quick, and come out quicker, then it lets you know. You only get this on the track however, you'd have to be a lunatic (fool) to get out of shape in it on the roads. Three big potential expenses on an S (or most TVRs, in fairness)
1. Chassis - the most expensive thing to sort (if you get it done properly). It's not just outriggers, it's everything (in fact on an S chassis, the rear beam is more important than the outriggers, and much trickier to sort out.) Beware cars that have 'had the outriggers changed', as while there is every possibility the job has been completed to a good standard, and the rest of the chassis genuinely is sound, it's more likely that it hasn't been. I've never had an S come in that has had the outriggers done in the past and thought "Oh, that's a decent job!" Expect to spend £5-10k (depending on how crazy you want to go), though if you can spanner yourself, you can drastically reduce this.
2. Bodywork - paintwork on a TVR is expensive, if you want a good job. The bodyshop will probably have to remove one or two previous attempts on most cars, too. Doors drop off too, as the retaining bobbins in the GRP break out - complete pain to put it right if you want the repair to look respectable. Expect to pay around £4-6k.
3. Interior - if you do all the labour yourself, you could fully retrim a TVR S for about £2-2.5k (incl. roof). If you want someone to do it for you, double it (though the odds are not every single component would need replacing).
As far as the models go:
S1 - Usually has the 2.8 engine fitted (though some very late cars might have moved over to the 2.9). Don't discount a good S1 for a s
t S2. A good car is a good car.Pros: Relatively simple injection system. Probably the best value S in terms of purchase price alone. Makes a unique sound amongst the S range (raspy, old school, lots of pops and bangs). In my experience doing chassis', white S1 chassis have tended to fare better than the darker red later S3/V8S spec chassis', which suggests the original coating was better. Obviously all of them will pretty much need the chassis doing by now if they haven't had it already, but prolonging the condition of the steel underneath helps.
Cons: The slowest of the bunch (worth about 15-25bhp less than the 2.9 - ignore TVR's BS power claims - though in fairness no S model is about speed, unless it's modified). Build quality on the earliest cars was pretty bad, along with the quality of materials, and build improved as the S aged. Small doors (like the S2) which can make it trickier for people to get into and out. Wind-up windows (if you class that as a con).
S2 - As per S1, but with electric windows (usually) and the 2.9 engine. Very slightly revised rear suspension settings, though you'd be hard pressed to notice the difference.
Pros: Bit more grunt than a 2.8. Sounds great again - nothing like the 2.8, more like an off-beat V8. Most common S out there, so usually easier to find one.
Cons: Still has the small doors. EFI system can be a pig if it throws its toys out the pram.
S3 - As per S2, but with newer dashboard (which looks older in style, weirdly) and larger doors, plus some other tit bits like optional driving lamps etc.
Pros: Larger doors - make a big difference to the ease of access. Build quality noticeable better than S1/S2, along with quality of leather/carpet etc. Revised rear trailing arms with adjustable toe angle. A little bit less 'kit car' in feel than the S1/S2.
Cons: Tend to cost a bit more than the other V6 models. Chassis seems to be the most easily affected for rot (in my experience, which follows the same pattern in Chimaera/Griffith models, where the later ones tend to fare worse for corrosion, but are better built).
(I won't bother doing the S4 - you're unlikely to find one!)
V8S - Totally different animal to the V6 cars. A very different drive to the V6, both in terms of feel and character.
Pros: Much quicker than a V6 in a straight line (I've seen people say there's not much in it - only true if the V8 driver isn't trying), though around the bends the V8 feels more of a handful. Revised suspension with wider track. Disc brakes all round. Limited slip diff. Exhaust doesn't fit as badly as the V6 cars (where it's a complete afterthought). They sound great (best sounding RV8 TVR in my opinion). You get the better build of the S3-spec car.
Cons: More expensive to buy and marginally more expensive to run. Camshafts are made of chocolate. Gearchange can be a bit average (though it's possible to improve it).
Overall, they're great fun. None of them are what I'd class as 'fast', but to worry about that is missing the point. They're all about fun, and any well-sorted S will put a sizable grin on your face in the right conditions. They're ongoing projects, and they're never finished. NOBODY'S car has nothing left to do on it, including the ones for sale! The roof is a PITA to erect and take down, but with the roof down it's a great experience.
My advice would be to buy the most sorted car you can. If you can find one that's had the chassis, body and interior done, it'll cost more but possibly save you money in the future, or you can buy cheap and get one or more of the three attended to. You rarely break even with these cars though, so you do it for the love, not the bank balance!
I've not got time for more, but if you've got any Q's I'm happy to help
Am hoping an S will be a little more difficult to drive at pace - combined with everything else about it, really hits the mark.
I am on the fence between the V6 & V8 though! I'll adjust my budget for a V8 if that car will give me the rewards - my only concern was that the V8 might not offer that 'racier' feel you mention... which I love!
Exciting time to be looking though! If a V8 pops up, I'll certainly take a look!
Thanks all for your thoughts, great community here!
Often my challenge when purchasing. . Bought my 911 as the 3rd one I looked at... have spent a LOT of money getting it mechanically sound, but then, I'm fastidious. She's one of the most sorted 996 turbos out there, but does get driven.
My 1500 Midget I've had for 12 years, purchased when I was 23, and restored.. I only planned on tidying up the enine bay! But what a hoot to drive - get them breathing right and they are quite responsive, chuck able little things!
Really excited about an S purchase... feel like a kid waiting for Christmas!
I'll dig out some photos!
Often my challenge when purchasing. . Bought my 911 as the 3rd one I looked at... have spent a LOT of money getting it mechanically sound, but then, I'm fastidious. She's one of the most sorted 996 turbos out there, but does get driven.
My 1500 Midget I've had for 12 years, purchased when I was 23, and restored.. I only planned on tidying up the enine bay! But what a hoot to drive - get them breathing right and they are quite responsive, chuck able little things!
Really excited about an S purchase... feel like a kid waiting for Christmas!
I'll dig out some photos!
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