TVR S1 won't run on after firing up
Discussion
Hi
Ive just (well over the last 18 months) stripped and rebuilt my S1 (chassis failure). I'm nearly finished BUT now she will fire up on the starter circuit but fails to run on when the key goes back to ignition.
Ive replaced the Kalt start module (rusted), fuses (two 15amp & the 25 fuel), tried to clean up terminals, re-made suspicious looking electrical connections etc. My Steve Heath is covered with coloured pen.
I do have fuel, The 'new' pink relay clicks in and off and the new pump buzzes to a stop ok.
Has anyone got any ideas?. Is there something obvious I am missing? What should I test ? (I do own, but am not a wiz at, a multimeter)
I've owned S1's since 1990 and have pushed and towed them for miles, the AA used to know me by my christian name,https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/imgs/4.gif but this one has beaten me.
Any help would be appreciated Cheers Guys
Ive just (well over the last 18 months) stripped and rebuilt my S1 (chassis failure). I'm nearly finished BUT now she will fire up on the starter circuit but fails to run on when the key goes back to ignition.
Ive replaced the Kalt start module (rusted), fuses (two 15amp & the 25 fuel), tried to clean up terminals, re-made suspicious looking electrical connections etc. My Steve Heath is covered with coloured pen.
I do have fuel, The 'new' pink relay clicks in and off and the new pump buzzes to a stop ok.
Has anyone got any ideas?. Is there something obvious I am missing? What should I test ? (I do own, but am not a wiz at, a multimeter)
I've owned S1's since 1990 and have pushed and towed them for miles, the AA used to know me by my christian name,https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/imgs/4.gif but this one has beaten me.
Any help would be appreciated Cheers Guys
Thanks PEDQUAD Ive tried that but I am getting voltage to the coil. Where were you suggesting i do the hot wiring . A live from the battery to what point? (back to the morris minor days eh?!)
Glenrobbo the air intake etc is all new. Though I haven't checked the vac hose and will do.
If I keep the starter motor switched 'on' a second or two after it fires (at risk of damage to flywheel etc) it will continue to fire and stops immediately I go back to ignition, so its not that it "stalls" as such, it's that there seems to be no 'firing' . Dead (i will double check)
I don't understand what 'happens' in the ignition module.
I know it received a message from the dizzy to trigger the circuit to the coil but is there something in there that can fail. Is the ignition/run side any different from the start circuit
I have seen one can get replacement module units for 2.8 Capris and it may be worth the money if there is doubt
Glenrobbo the air intake etc is all new. Though I haven't checked the vac hose and will do.
If I keep the starter motor switched 'on' a second or two after it fires (at risk of damage to flywheel etc) it will continue to fire and stops immediately I go back to ignition, so its not that it "stalls" as such, it's that there seems to be no 'firing' . Dead (i will double check)
I don't understand what 'happens' in the ignition module.
I know it received a message from the dizzy to trigger the circuit to the coil but is there something in there that can fail. Is the ignition/run side any different from the start circuit
I have seen one can get replacement module units for 2.8 Capris and it may be worth the money if there is doubt
Done the two test suggested by both postings
1 Yes The test lamp stayed on through the whole process
2 The coil isolation test gave 5.8 volts. Not enough eh? I have the standard loops of blue wire as the resistor.
Should I replace the resistor?
Is there an alternative option to the blue wire
If not, any ideas where I can get some and what to ask for
Positive stuff!!!
1 Yes The test lamp stayed on through the whole process
2 The coil isolation test gave 5.8 volts. Not enough eh? I have the standard loops of blue wire as the resistor.
Should I replace the resistor?
Is there an alternative option to the blue wire
If not, any ideas where I can get some and what to ask for
Positive stuff!!!
12 v coil is an idea...
I have taken out the resistor wire and put in a temporary short loop on bullet connectors as a tester to try it at 12 v BUT still 'no go' on ignition.
I've given up for today but I will do the voltage to the coil (without resistor wire) on ignition test later in the week when I have got my sense of humour back
Thanks for the input so far everyone... Ill be back!!!!
I have taken out the resistor wire and put in a temporary short loop on bullet connectors as a tester to try it at 12 v BUT still 'no go' on ignition.
I've given up for today but I will do the voltage to the coil (without resistor wire) on ignition test later in the week when I have got my sense of humour back
Thanks for the input so far everyone... Ill be back!!!!
Well, having sat back for a few days to gain my composure....
IGNITION SWITCH: I've checked the ignition switch wiring, standard Ford/TVR, as the wiring diagram
FUEL PUMP: To test the fuel pump operation, as suggested, I temporarily replaced the fuel relay with a headlamp relay (as advised in the Granada Haynes Manual). That kept the fuel pump running continuously when the ignition was on....... There is good pressure at the distribution pot both in and return.
Still no continuation after the start up firing.
FUEL: Am I correct in my understanding that starting procedure fuel works off (or is assisted by) an electrically operated pulsing pump adding fuel into the air inlet manifold, so could it be that there may not be any/enough fuel getting in via the injectors, which should be positively loaded at a volume that is controlled by the air flap and released at timings that are valve controlled. How can I test this function?. Any advice??
SPARK: I took out a spark plug and on earthing it, it did sparks during start procedure but when the key 'start' position is released back to 'ignition', and the engine was not driven by the starter motor and it just turns a couple of "chuffs" as it ceases to turn, I witnessed no spark at the spark plug.
MODULE: I find that finned box a bit of a mystery. Does it provide the same function during 'starting' as during 'running'. If there are separate functions, perhaps I should try and source another (I see there are 'new' replacement units advertised on the internet)..Thoughts?
Cheers guys
IGNITION SWITCH: I've checked the ignition switch wiring, standard Ford/TVR, as the wiring diagram
FUEL PUMP: To test the fuel pump operation, as suggested, I temporarily replaced the fuel relay with a headlamp relay (as advised in the Granada Haynes Manual). That kept the fuel pump running continuously when the ignition was on....... There is good pressure at the distribution pot both in and return.
Still no continuation after the start up firing.
FUEL: Am I correct in my understanding that starting procedure fuel works off (or is assisted by) an electrically operated pulsing pump adding fuel into the air inlet manifold, so could it be that there may not be any/enough fuel getting in via the injectors, which should be positively loaded at a volume that is controlled by the air flap and released at timings that are valve controlled. How can I test this function?. Any advice??
SPARK: I took out a spark plug and on earthing it, it did sparks during start procedure but when the key 'start' position is released back to 'ignition', and the engine was not driven by the starter motor and it just turns a couple of "chuffs" as it ceases to turn, I witnessed no spark at the spark plug.
MODULE: I find that finned box a bit of a mystery. Does it provide the same function during 'starting' as during 'running'. If there are separate functions, perhaps I should try and source another (I see there are 'new' replacement units advertised on the internet)..Thoughts?
Cheers guys
TACHO: Thanks for the suggestion. The body has been off and in the shed for well over a year, so there could be movement disruption. The Rev counter does activate during the starting procedure. I see from the wiring diagram that it is part of the circuit, What should I check for ? How can I check it?
TACHO: Thanks for the suggestion. The body has been off and in the shed for well over a year, so there could be movement disruption. The Rev counter does activate during the starting procedure. I see from the wiring diagram that it is part of the circuit, What should I check for ? How can I check it?
Thanks for that.
That's like the old fashion hot wiring. (I'm that old!!)
I have tried this, but there is no problem in trying it again. Will do...
I was under the impression the ignition system was more complicated than that but from your experience, you have proved me wrong....cheers
That's like the old fashion hot wiring. (I'm that old!!)
I have tried this, but there is no problem in trying it again. Will do...
I was under the impression the ignition system was more complicated than that but from your experience, you have proved me wrong....cheers
Back on it again today
FUEL: Took air box off the top of the engine to get to the injector connections and, replacing the relay as before to keep fuel pumping, I do get fuel to the injectors but, of course, only when I lift the air flap manually, to activate the fuel distributor..... so it proves fuel can get there but it doesn't prove that it does (i.e. does the flap work?)
I now have to wait till possibly Monday for a new air box gasket (I had to buy a whole head gasket set!!) to put it all together and borrow another pair of hands to check air flap activation etc.
FUSE BLOCK: Checked all 16 fuses in the block and replaced most of them (Halfords Bargain Fuse Selection Box). and I've tried to check the fuse block, (using the meter and a long earth to the battery), to see if I have 12v where there should be 12v, both going in or coming out. Seems OK
LIGHTER SOCKET: Yes, I do have power at the lighter socket on ignition. Same Volts as battery.
CONTINUATION: Over the weekend/next week, I'm going to put the air box & fuel back together then go through the ignition electric checks one more time, this time with the help of the spare pair of hands (beer bribe coming up) and I'll keep you posted
FUEL: Took air box off the top of the engine to get to the injector connections and, replacing the relay as before to keep fuel pumping, I do get fuel to the injectors but, of course, only when I lift the air flap manually, to activate the fuel distributor..... so it proves fuel can get there but it doesn't prove that it does (i.e. does the flap work?)
I now have to wait till possibly Monday for a new air box gasket (I had to buy a whole head gasket set!!) to put it all together and borrow another pair of hands to check air flap activation etc.
FUSE BLOCK: Checked all 16 fuses in the block and replaced most of them (Halfords Bargain Fuse Selection Box). and I've tried to check the fuse block, (using the meter and a long earth to the battery), to see if I have 12v where there should be 12v, both going in or coming out. Seems OK
LIGHTER SOCKET: Yes, I do have power at the lighter socket on ignition. Same Volts as battery.
CONTINUATION: Over the weekend/next week, I'm going to put the air box & fuel back together then go through the ignition electric checks one more time, this time with the help of the spare pair of hands (beer bribe coming up) and I'll keep you posted
Help came today. But both are at a loss.
Fuel we have. Took an injector out.
It is definitely electrical that fails on 'run' circuit. No spark on run circuit. Changed the coil.
I've ordered a new replacement Module
Simple question. :- Looking at the 'Bible' circuit diagram, on the start procedure, I see electrical power to the amp module coming off the the starter motor supply, BUT what fuse/route provides the power to the module when in 'run' mode.
The 25 amp supplies the fuel pump, via the 'PINK' module, but is that all it does.
I love my S But.............
Fuel we have. Took an injector out.
It is definitely electrical that fails on 'run' circuit. No spark on run circuit. Changed the coil.
I've ordered a new replacement Module
Simple question. :- Looking at the 'Bible' circuit diagram, on the start procedure, I see electrical power to the amp module coming off the the starter motor supply, BUT what fuse/route provides the power to the module when in 'run' mode.
The 25 amp supplies the fuel pump, via the 'PINK' module, but is that all it does.
I love my S But.............
Hi. Well at least having another head with me relieved me from thinking I was loosing the plot 
)
Direct live to the coil...... No it didnt work And we stripped the coil off my v8 landrover and wired that up too. running on resistor & non resistor supply ....... same thing, she fires up with gusto on the start circuit then no spark at all when we go to run circuit
Rev counter OK, The ignition light cigarette lighter, heater fan etc all work on run position.
Have taken our the resistor wire from the circuit, no difference
So...... we have come to an interim conclusion that it may me the "white" cable to the module but inside the module ........ lets see when the replacement comes
Cheers for your continued interest
)Direct live to the coil...... No it didnt work And we stripped the coil off my v8 landrover and wired that up too. running on resistor & non resistor supply ....... same thing, she fires up with gusto on the start circuit then no spark at all when we go to run circuit
Rev counter OK, The ignition light cigarette lighter, heater fan etc all work on run position.
Have taken our the resistor wire from the circuit, no difference
So...... we have come to an interim conclusion that it may me the "white" cable to the module but inside the module ........ lets see when the replacement comes
Cheers for your continued interest
Green V8s. Thanks, Regarding the voltage from resistor wire to the coil, I am going to check that voltage out again tonight.......
We have tried with that resistor wire removed and replaced by a short length of wire with two bullet connectors.
We have tried the above experiment with both the TVR coil and the one borrowed from my V8 Land Rover.
With regards to connections to the DuraSpark module, I have all the connections that are on the circuit diagram, as loaded by Penelope Pitstop (thanks PP, that's as my copy of the 'bible') plus a separate temporary 'crocodile' connection from the module body direct to the battery negative terminal, employing a 'jump lead', just in case
We have tried by-passing the Tacho supply by connecting a lead direct to the battery keeping the connections to the coil as well
I've 'won' a used 'working'module on e bay so hope to get that next week. Fingers crossed!!!!
I cannot believe the help I am getting from the community for which, I really must, Thank You All......
We have tried with that resistor wire removed and replaced by a short length of wire with two bullet connectors.
We have tried the above experiment with both the TVR coil and the one borrowed from my V8 Land Rover.
With regards to connections to the DuraSpark module, I have all the connections that are on the circuit diagram, as loaded by Penelope Pitstop (thanks PP, that's as my copy of the 'bible') plus a separate temporary 'crocodile' connection from the module body direct to the battery negative terminal, employing a 'jump lead', just in case
We have tried by-passing the Tacho supply by connecting a lead direct to the battery keeping the connections to the coil as well
I've 'won' a used 'working'module on e bay so hope to get that next week. Fingers crossed!!!!
I cannot believe the help I am getting from the community for which, I really must, Thank You All......
Here I sit with dirty hands and a beer.....It was the DuraSpark unit . I don't know how they vary but I just got a random one off E bay.
However note........ In the TVR Bible, run is shown as wired to the white and start is wired to the red. On most modules, it seems, and the one in bought, start is the white wire and run is the red wire out of the module
Still some things to sort as the power off the high torque starter motor I have installed is, for some reason low so, as the draw from the WOSP starter is much lower than standard I am going to wire the start supply from the solenoid activation side of the circuit. (By the way the WOSP starter, for £200 is awesome)
I'm going to splash out on a new tailor made module for the cologne 2.8 engine.
Thank you so very much everyone for bothering to take up your time, giving me so much help and advice
The old girl can now progress to her new lease of life
However note........ In the TVR Bible, run is shown as wired to the white and start is wired to the red. On most modules, it seems, and the one in bought, start is the white wire and run is the red wire out of the module
Still some things to sort as the power off the high torque starter motor I have installed is, for some reason low so, as the draw from the WOSP starter is much lower than standard I am going to wire the start supply from the solenoid activation side of the circuit. (By the way the WOSP starter, for £200 is awesome)
I'm going to splash out on a new tailor made module for the cologne 2.8 engine.
Thank you so very much everyone for bothering to take up your time, giving me so much help and advice
The old girl can now progress to her new lease of life
I don't think I explained myself properly. Yes I do understand what you are saying
When you buy the WOSP starter motor for a cologne engine they add a switched take off on the top for the start ignition circuit which is activated by the starter solenoid actuator circuit.
For some reason, on test, it only gives out 8.64 volts and it should be battery voltage.
This supply does not go through the resistor blue wire but direct to the coil. It is isolated when the starter actuator circuit is turned off.
My proposal is to take the coil supply, (during starting procedure only), from the supply cable from the key switch start position to the starter motor solenoid actuator, or I could take it from the switched side of the starter motor supply (ie the heayy cable after the solenoid contacts and before the starter motor)
Both sources would not be live except when the start position is selected on the key
When you buy the WOSP starter motor for a cologne engine they add a switched take off on the top for the start ignition circuit which is activated by the starter solenoid actuator circuit.
For some reason, on test, it only gives out 8.64 volts and it should be battery voltage.
This supply does not go through the resistor blue wire but direct to the coil. It is isolated when the starter actuator circuit is turned off.
My proposal is to take the coil supply, (during starting procedure only), from the supply cable from the key switch start position to the starter motor solenoid actuator, or I could take it from the switched side of the starter motor supply (ie the heayy cable after the solenoid contacts and before the starter motor)
Both sources would not be live except when the start position is selected on the key
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