TVR S3c project

[Real driver]

Hi everybody.

Years ago, Around 2001, I created a web magazine with my best friend.

In one of the articles, we reviewed his TVR S3c

My friend stopped driving his car in 2010 as it had started overheating and he had a small frontend shunt.

This year, with a bit of car swapping magic, I have become the owner of the car and am trying to slowly bring it back to life.
It isn't in a horrible state and doesn't seem to have too much rust. I've prodded underneath and have only seen some surface rust on the chassis.

The engine is more of a worry. As mentionned, it was overheating when it was last used and isn't running on all cylinders.

I have found some rather bodged repairs to the ignition system, so I'm going to see to that first. I'll upload some pics of that later.

Here are some pics of the car in 2001. It's a Swiss car, registered in 1994 (most likely a 1992 build). It's done about 88'000 miles (141'000 km).












Mod edit. Links to,own social media pages removed.

Edited by Scrump on Sunday 22 March 20:38

[Real driver]

I hadn't noticed the washers until I was uploading the pics. Now I know why I have 2 washer bottles. One for the headlamps and one for the windscreen. Is that correct?

[Real driver]

Thanks!

I'll try to get some pics of the interior.

I would like some help with the overheating, I think I know how I'm going to test (Make sure that there isn't any air trapped in the system would be a good thing to do, LOL).

But first of all I'm going to try and make the car run on all 6 cylinders. I'm going to dig up a post from way back concerning S3C coils and post there, It will be better for others who may have the same problem)

Edited by Real driver on Friday 6th December 16:23

[Real driver]

Fefeu52 said:

The first thing to do is to start the engine when it is completely cold (no pressure in the cooling system) and squeezing a cooling hose with hand to feel if the pressure is growing instantly in the system. If it does, you probably have a head gasket failure.

After that, remove the 6 spark plugs and look at the colour. You should easily find which cylinder runs and which doesn't. With plugs removed, you can test the compressions with a tester. You will detect a compression trouble.

If there is no pressure in the circuit and high / balanced compressions, you are a lucky man ! It's not a huge trouble. Start by replacing the sparks, dizzy cap and harm, HT leads. Not sure this will resolve your problem, but if it doesn't, consider it's a service.

Drain the cooling system, if there is a lot of rust in it (the coolant has a rusty colour), you will have to clean the system.

Thanks for the info, I'll try the pressure in the cooling system first. There's no mayonnaise in the oil or traces of oil in the water. But you never know...

[Real driver]

Podie said:

Yep. Can't recall if it was an option or just in certain markets.

Any interior pics?

Have the door handles got "TVR" stamped on them (by the lock)?

The door handles have TVR stamped on them (why this question?)
Here is a quick pic of the interior.


So I changed HT leads, plugs and the coil (which had a super bodge job done to it) and the car is firing on all 6 cylinders. So that's good news.

It's still overheating, but the cooling system doesn't seem to be pressurizing as soon as I start the car.
So here is what I've noticed:
1) The fan did not turn on (although I didn't let the temp needle into the red)
2) there is a kind of mechanical rumble that can be heard when I let off the gas pedal (probably because the engine is making less noise). Could that be the water pump? I haven't touched it to see if there's play yet.
3) The cooling system gurgles quite a lot when I turn the engine off (when it's starting to overheat). the gurgling is coming from the expansion tank. The swirl pot is hissing a bit.

Is there a difference to the way the cooling system operates if the bonnet is open (my hood was open...)?

Edited by Real driver on Sunday 22 December 19:01

[Real driver]

Thanks guys!

The remark concerning the pressurizing was that if the head gasket had failed, it would pressurize the cooling system immediately.

I didn't know that the fan only came on when the temp gauge was in the red. That's curious.
Anyway, the system shouldn't be hissing if the fan hasn't even come on, should it?

The swirl pot's cap is new and the expansion tank's one seems OK.

Il check all that the next time I fire her up. I've got a thermostat, so will change that anyway. My hunch is that it's the water pump...

Merry Christmas!

[Real driver]

Well, the project is advancing very slowly. I've had to clear stuff from my garage before being able to move around the car.

I moved the car while cleaning up and this is what I've found.

- I jumped the otter switch and the fan worked fine.
- When the cap on the swirl pot starts to hiss (with vapor coming out of it like a kettle, this is at just over 90C), the pipe on which the otter switch is fixed was warm but touchable (I'd say, not at 90C)
- The radiator stays stone cold
- There is play (less than 1mm) when I try to move the water pump pulley
- The kind of mechanical grinding sound definitely comes from the front of the engine

Sounds very much like a thermostat or water pump problem (most likely both) to me or even air in the system...

Edited by Real driver on Monday 13th January 17:55

[Real driver]

Thanks guys.

I've got the thermostat, so will change that and I'll probably order a water pump as it probably isn't normal that there's some play

[Real driver]

I finally found time to do some work on the car. I changed the thermostat and the water pump and then bled the whole system.

Good news, there is no more overheating. The pump was pretty rusty, so was probably the culprit of the overheating all those years ago. I wonder if the recurring overheating wasn't because of the system not being correctly bled. Maybe the theromstat was stuck closed? I haven't tested the old one.

It's still making a rattling sound at around 2500 rpm. I think it's coming from underneath the car (exhaust maybe?).

The throttle seems to have quite a bit of lag/stutter between stepping on the throttle and the revs rising. Next thing to tackle then...

[Real driver]

Some news from Switzerland.

I've washed it, done an oil change and started bleeding the brakes.

Unfortunately, the rear left would bleed (nothing was coming out of bleed nipple) I noticed quite a lot of oil stains around the rear of the drum so I opened it (see pic).



So I need a new brake cylinder and shoes I suppose... Would I be correct in thinking that it is the state of the cylinder which is blocking the nipple?

I also have a query. It seems that Swiss market S3cs have a special exhaust. Has anybody seen this kind of exhaust before?



Finally, a pic of the car after it first (quick) was in over 10 years

Edited by Real driver on Saturday 21st March 22:07

Edited by Real driver on Saturday 21st March 22:07

[Real driver]

TwinKam said:

This muck is pretty typical of when fluid weeping from a brake cylinder mixes with brake dust and rust and is left undetected for ages. This is why I advocate an annual 'wheels & drums off' inspection of brakes, regardless of mileage.
The nipple is probably blocked with rust at its inner end. You could take it out and poke it clear, but in this instance you need a new cylinder and shoes anyway. Changing the brake fluid every two or three years prevents not only this blockage, but also the total seizure of the nipple.

Yes, I'll be changing cylinders and shoes on both sides anyway. The car has been sitting for 10 years, but looking at the muck, I'd think that the cylinder was already leaking before storage...

[Real driver]

AutoAndy said:

...the exhaust looks like a normal V6 exhaust (not special)...

Yes, that is what I was thinking. But it's an S3 (non cat) exhaust, and not an S3c (like my car). Probably because of Swiss noise restrictions, there is 1 extra "box".
Could this be what they did?

[Real driver]

phillpot said:

Is it feasible that a car nearly 30 years old may have had a new (whatever they could get) exhaust some time in its life?

I don't think so. Swiss "MOT" is quite strict, so you can't just dump anything on the car. The car was sold in '94 and then dry stored in '09 or '10. It was also never left outside (As proof, there is very little chassis corrosion). The current exhaust looks like a 15-year-old exhaust to me...

Also, my friend told me that the exhaust was specific to the Swiss market. It's relatively quiet too... If I was TVR and the non-cat exhaust fitted a cat car, that's what I would have done. but I'm just guessing...

[Real driver]

BIG DUNC said:

The thing is, most testers and mechanics in your country will have only ever seen your S3C.

So while you cannot "throw anything on", if you did change the exhaust for one which was different, next time the car was in a garage would they actually know that it was different? Yes, it will look new, but for all they will know, you ordered it from TVR and it was identical to the one you took off.

Sure, if you put a straight through system with massive tail pipes on the back of a 1.6 Focus, then they will know it shouldn't be like that. But, I doubt they will know what an S3C should look like underneath.

Very true. The tester will also probably be more lenient with a TVR than with a mass produced car too. My worry is if it "seems" too loud, it may be sound tested.

[Real driver]

TVRees said:

My S2 - non cat - had the cat version original exhaust according to the below diagram. Typical of what you can expect from TVR.
Fit whatever was available.

I have the feeling that the non-cat exhaust is probably a bit quieter and that they are interchangeable.

I have a question concerning the catalytic converters. The left side one on my car is actually touching the water pipe coming out of the water pump. I understand that the cats were an afterthought, but that they actually touch a part of the car which is part of the cooling system is madness... Is this normal?

Of course, the thermal protection has desintegrated. Has anybody replaced it on their car? with what, exhaust header wrap?

[Real driver]

BIG DUNC said:

Don't know whether it is normal, but it isn't good.

Noise why, you could always fit a track day silencer that bolts onto the end of the tail pipes. Easily removable as well, for days you want to be noisy.

Something like this https://www.actproducts.co.uk/product-category/aut...

In Switzerland, I will need the closest possible to the original exhaust. I think that I'll just fix the old one and change it later. Are ACT any good, they are the only manufacturers of exhausts that I've seen on the web...

[Real driver]

chiefyo said:

Cat equipped car should have a different hose arrangement my S3C certainly did when first bought. It has now been altered by me but the original route was away from the cat and included a metal pipe
https://tvr-s-series.net/images/downloads/Ersatzte... In the section on cooling refer to the bottom hose and the part labelled 13a / 13b is a section of metal tube. The normal solution in UK is to remove the cats

Thanks for the link. If you look at my photo, the part that is touching the CAT seems to be 12/12a in fact. The CAT is so close to the water pump that I can't see how it could be redirected...