quattro engine and driveline rebuild
Discussion
As some of you folk know, the Black Audi Ur quattro’s having a little bit of work done on it at the moment, it started off as a bottom end re-shell and has grown into a rebuild. There is basically a block being mated with our head, everything is being replaced or refurbished, radiators, pipes, hoses, bolts, gaskets… The lot.
This is a post up of various updates on other forums, but you'll get the idea...
Old motor being stripped down for removal
New motor bottom end built up with new auxiliaries.
Electro-plated (refurbished) bolts all round.
Quick thanks to John Mitchell who’s doing the build and to Pete Reeve (quattrocorner).
Next post
John’s been cracking on at a right old pace, the engine is long since out,
so is the gearbox
And how is this, the only thing that’s broken is the plastic clip for the differential actuation bar… So, no sheared head bolts, broken studs, rounded nuts or other miscellaneous nightmares… Stunning when you consider the engine has been there since 1985. Anyway, whilst we’re there, and the gearbox is off, we’re renewing the Clutch Slave cylinder and flexible pipe, together with a new propshaft bearing.
Under the car…
Is in (dare I say it for sounding a bit smug) brilliant condition. So no worries there.
The new engine is pretty much together on the stand now…
The engine looks lovely. We’ve not gone ‘concours’, but just tidy, protected (painted etc) and original.
John also wheeled out one of his other engines…
A 350bhp Corrado G60 lump…
Finally, we brought home the old WR lump,
which only really ran out No3 big end, so, will only need a regrind, reshell, maybe a new rod for No3 and a balance. I’ll oil it up and store it away, unless someone else needs it for £100.00.
Big thanks to John and to Pete Reeve at quattrocorner again...
Rad now looks like this
Engine like this
Prop bearing done, engine and gearbox dressed, engine bay cleaned and tidied. Next job is engine mated back with the box and hopefully in tomorrow, then it's plumbing, wiring and drivetrain.
Dash is also back from Pete Knight...:tup:
All going very well at the moment.
Unboxed the repaired WR Dash...
Whoo-Hoo... Starting to get excited now... Soon be motoring again...
Few more pictures today,
Gearbox is now reconnected to the engine...
Together they are just enormous... Unbelievably heavy and awkward.
Engine bay is getting a bit of a tidy-up too...
John's also worked his way back, and is replacing fuel lines, filters and canister whilst it's all apart.
It'll be a new car (mechanically) when it's done...
And...
The latest picture, hot off the press, taken less than 10 minutes ago... (13.40)
:nod:
Awesome.
Right, looks like we’re going for a Monday afternoon start-up….
Lovely, can’t wait…
This is a post up of various updates on other forums, but you'll get the idea...
Old motor being stripped down for removal
New motor bottom end built up with new auxiliaries.
Electro-plated (refurbished) bolts all round.
Quick thanks to John Mitchell who’s doing the build and to Pete Reeve (quattrocorner).
Next post
John’s been cracking on at a right old pace, the engine is long since out,
so is the gearbox
And how is this, the only thing that’s broken is the plastic clip for the differential actuation bar… So, no sheared head bolts, broken studs, rounded nuts or other miscellaneous nightmares… Stunning when you consider the engine has been there since 1985. Anyway, whilst we’re there, and the gearbox is off, we’re renewing the Clutch Slave cylinder and flexible pipe, together with a new propshaft bearing.
Under the car…
Is in (dare I say it for sounding a bit smug) brilliant condition. So no worries there.
The new engine is pretty much together on the stand now…
The engine looks lovely. We’ve not gone ‘concours’, but just tidy, protected (painted etc) and original.
John also wheeled out one of his other engines…
A 350bhp Corrado G60 lump…
Finally, we brought home the old WR lump,
which only really ran out No3 big end, so, will only need a regrind, reshell, maybe a new rod for No3 and a balance. I’ll oil it up and store it away, unless someone else needs it for £100.00.
Big thanks to John and to Pete Reeve at quattrocorner again...
Rad now looks like this
Engine like this
Prop bearing done, engine and gearbox dressed, engine bay cleaned and tidied. Next job is engine mated back with the box and hopefully in tomorrow, then it's plumbing, wiring and drivetrain.
Dash is also back from Pete Knight...:tup:
All going very well at the moment.
Unboxed the repaired WR Dash...
Whoo-Hoo... Starting to get excited now... Soon be motoring again...
Few more pictures today,
Gearbox is now reconnected to the engine...
Together they are just enormous... Unbelievably heavy and awkward.
Engine bay is getting a bit of a tidy-up too...
John's also worked his way back, and is replacing fuel lines, filters and canister whilst it's all apart.
It'll be a new car (mechanically) when it's done...
And...
The latest picture, hot off the press, taken less than 10 minutes ago... (13.40)
:nod:
Awesome.
Right, looks like we’re going for a Monday afternoon start-up….
Lovely, can’t wait…
Edited by Isimmo on Friday 15th October 21:02
jonboy21t said:
Looking good - always good to see a classic being "spruced up"....by the way, was the Quattro fitted with a T3 turbo or smaller/larger......
Good luck with the first start-up/test drive - she'll be fine...just do forget to check the turbo oil feed pipes....i talk from recent experience......
The old girls' were fitted with KKK26K's, later quattros came with the smaller KKK24K's So it's all old school, no boost, big bang stuff.Good luck with the first start-up/test drive - she'll be fine...just do forget to check the turbo oil feed pipes....i talk from recent experience......
We've bought brand new oil cooler pipes (all £170+vat's worth - you might just be able to see them in one of the pictures) even though the old one's were 'okay'... As you say though, it's a potential nightmare scenario, I've seen two quattros killed by failed oil cooler pipes, it takes about 5 seconds at motorway speeds to irreparably knacker the big end bearings. If you're lucky, if your unlucky it gets the oil alight on the turbo, which is just behind the oil cooler.
Been a classic 'Welcome to the world of Audi' day today, the box of bits needed to screw the car together have seen several parts not quite matching the part number ordered, so, bless, they are trying again...
...
Should have the 'epic fail' sorted tomorrow morning, so we're looking at, fingers crossed, tomorrow...
...Should have the 'epic fail' sorted tomorrow morning, so we're looking at, fingers crossed, tomorrow...
mgbond said:
Would it not of been worth reconditioning the turbo while it was out? Also (don't know what they are like) would it not have been a good idea to recon the gearbox?
Bondy
P.S. Going through a complete engine, gearbox, clutch rebuild/upgrade at the mo. Can't wait to be at your point
. unfortunately I have to wait 6wks for the new pistons 
The 'box on the WR's is probably the strongest box Audi ever made fortunately, and should be good for a long while yet, the turbo is a good question though... And a bit of a gamble, it's probably the original, and unknown really on age... We've owned the car 15yrs and it's been in there throughout... But, prior to rebuild it was making the full boost and there is no end play or blade damage or imbalance... So yep, you're right, in a perfect world I'd be in for a new turbo, but.... The original isn't showing undue signs of degradation... So... And this is always the problem with this kind of re-engineering... hopefully it'll be okay... Like the 'box, and the 50k clutch, and the re-con'd rads, and the rebuilt block, and the new oil pump, and, worst of all, me...the big nut behind the wheel...Bondy
P.S. Going through a complete engine, gearbox, clutch rebuild/upgrade at the mo. Can't wait to be at your point
. unfortunately I have to wait 6wks for the new pistons Oh deep joy...
Brand new Audi supplied oil pump, leaks like a sieve and makes poor oil pressure... Brand new, Audi supplied water pump, pumps water... Sounds like an air-raid siren... A few well placed 'F()cks' are being worked into the right places at the moment... Getting them out and back in again is at best a major job...
Being Audi Dealer supplied parts they are subject to a warranty, which includes labour, but this requires (normally) the car to have the warranty work completed at a main dealer... Clearly, they can take a fookin massive running jump with that, it's not going to get a new pumpset fitted by Arthur J Scrote, ChimpTec 2010... So the (normally) bit above is going to become one of the exceptions...
The start up...
...you can hear the pumps above the noise of the engine... And you can see John frantically pumping the coolant as he realises there's cavitation.
John was so worried the oil pump had not worked hard enough, he dropped the subframe and sump and checked 'Mains' and 'Shells'... All were thankfully fine....
We now await replacement parts from said supplier...
Brand new Audi supplied oil pump, leaks like a sieve and makes poor oil pressure... Brand new, Audi supplied water pump, pumps water... Sounds like an air-raid siren... A few well placed 'F()cks' are being worked into the right places at the moment... Getting them out and back in again is at best a major job...
Being Audi Dealer supplied parts they are subject to a warranty, which includes labour, but this requires (normally) the car to have the warranty work completed at a main dealer... Clearly, they can take a fookin massive running jump with that, it's not going to get a new pumpset fitted by Arthur J Scrote, ChimpTec 2010... So the (normally) bit above is going to become one of the exceptions...
The start up...
...you can hear the pumps above the noise of the engine... And you can see John frantically pumping the coolant as he realises there's cavitation.
John was so worried the oil pump had not worked hard enough, he dropped the subframe and sump and checked 'Mains' and 'Shells'... All were thankfully fine....
We now await replacement parts from said supplier...
Edited by Isimmo on Tuesday 19th October 20:54
Bit more today. (this is a bit confusing with so many engines, but... basically, we're pulling out the engine above^)
The cars original WR engine is ready to go off for a rebore now, together with the KG crank.
We'll match 5 conrods from the box of bits...
The block is to be bored out to 80.5, which requires oversized pistons...
These are brand new Mahle 80.475 oversized WR pistons.
The whole lot will be sent away and balanced, together with the flywheel and clutch.
Then we'll try again...
RallyRep stud conversion due back this week too.
The cars original WR engine is ready to go off for a rebore now, together with the KG crank.
We'll match 5 conrods from the box of bits...
The block is to be bored out to 80.5, which requires oversized pistons...
These are brand new Mahle 80.475 oversized WR pistons.
The whole lot will be sent away and balanced, together with the flywheel and clutch.
Then we'll try again...
RallyRep stud conversion due back this week too.
mgbond said:
Isimmo said:
...The whole lot will be sent away and balanced, together with the flywheel and clutch..
I will be getting all mine balanced also but I was told they need pistons/Rods/1 bearing set, crank, front pulley and fly wheel (going to get this lightened also). No mention of giving them the clutch though other than the release plate or is that what you mean?mgbond said:
Who is doing your balancing, I found a place in walton on thames, peanut somthing?
Bondy
Ours is off to Hertfordshire...Bondy
http://www.JNLRacing.com
Turning into a bit of an epic this... The engine rebuild is going into the realms of 'seriously specialist' (read fookin expensive), with the block being bored, honed and repistoned with Mahle oversized, new crank, rods etc,etc... Well, the old girls motor is due back hopefully tomorrow or early next week. So the ur's replacement block will come out in the next day or so and the original lump will go back in... this'll leave me with the Original lump in the car, after a full rebuild, and two dismantled 10vT 5 pot engines in basic parts. Along with enough parts (turbos, downpipes, inter and oil coolers etc). To, in time, pop together a new motor for the 'rallywreck'...
we're getting there...!
we're getting there...!
Bottom end came back yesterday afternoon...:arf:
black block
Honing marks on bores
Lightened and Balanced Crank and Rods... Flywheel and pulleywheel have also been lightened and balanced.
John has started building the block back up today, so things are moving again.
Also, hopefully today, we'll be fitting the Avus onto the S2 for the winter with new front boots.
It's all happening.
black block
Honing marks on bores
Lightened and Balanced Crank and Rods... Flywheel and pulleywheel have also been lightened and balanced.
John has started building the block back up today, so things are moving again.
Also, hopefully today, we'll be fitting the Avus onto the S2 for the winter with new front boots.
It's all happening.
Well, went for it today...
Here's the engine bay.
Had a bit of an issue with the PAS Reservoir, basically the filter below the Gauze has collapsed and was partially starving the supply to the PAS pump, causing cavitation of the fluid. This is why you can hear the PAS pump having a whine, we've sorted this now. But other than that, it's looking good. Balanced engine runs smoothly, got that 'poppy, bangy exhaust too'...:tup:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profil...
Still a fair bit to go though, build up of the front end, radiator cowls and dash to put in + MOT, to mention just a few... She'll be home for Christmas though.
Here's the engine bay.
Had a bit of an issue with the PAS Reservoir, basically the filter below the Gauze has collapsed and was partially starving the supply to the PAS pump, causing cavitation of the fluid. This is why you can hear the PAS pump having a whine, we've sorted this now. But other than that, it's looking good. Balanced engine runs smoothly, got that 'poppy, bangy exhaust too'...:tup:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profil...
Still a fair bit to go though, build up of the front end, radiator cowls and dash to put in + MOT, to mention just a few... She'll be home for Christmas though.
well, finally, after a pretty difficult berth, the new engine (and pretty much whole mechanical side of the car) has appeared back on the public highway. The MOT was passed (without advisories) on Monday, and the old girl has covered about 50 miles now. We'll hopefully be picking her up on Saturday after John (at JMR) has shakedown tested her for another couple of days.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Isimmorallyrep?feature...
http://www.youtube.com/user/Isimmorallyrep?feature...
Once it's done, the workshop will be free for the 20vT conversion into the Rally Car, that'll hopefully be out by Sunseeker...
Gawd, I must be mad!
http://www.youtube.com/user/Isimmorallyrep?feature...
http://www.youtube.com/user/Isimmorallyrep?feature...
Once it's done, the workshop will be free for the 20vT conversion into the Rally Car, that'll hopefully be out by Sunseeker...
Gawd, I must be mad!
Al Wyn said:
Well done Ian knew all would turn out good with this in the end...well worth all your great efforts and financial commitment imho...pop round and pick me up for the next brekkie meet in her will you.
Thanks Al, The old girl's got to be run in now, so 1000 miles of mixed driving and reduced thrashing. The car normally does about 1800 miles a year, so we've got to force ourselves to use it more, and soon, so it's run in quickly. But...
The RallyRep gets the (Sport quattro derived) AAN 20 valve 5 cylinder Turbo engine fitted in the next couple of weeks too. So that'll hopefully be packing 300bhp by Sunseeker Rally (26th Feb)...
Bloomin mad here at the moment... But can't wait for the RallyWreck to be running with the low gearing of the 016 gearbox and high torque 20vT 5 pot.
Either way, both cars are finally coming straight.
VBR
Ian
This is the transplant.
This was earlier in the week.
John has had a busy couple of days working on the AAN, it's all come back together beautifully, and he has had a couple of eureka moments with the wiring loom. So that's (temporarily) attached to the engine now, with labels identifying where it will interface with the RallyReps loom. He's a clever old stick.
This is the AAN as at 6pm tonight... Harnessed up and ready for the RallyRep
Workshop time's a bit tight for the next week or so, progress will resume beginning of Feb. This'll give time for the ECU to go on Holiday with it's map.
This was earlier in the week.
John has had a busy couple of days working on the AAN, it's all come back together beautifully, and he has had a couple of eureka moments with the wiring loom. So that's (temporarily) attached to the engine now, with labels identifying where it will interface with the RallyReps loom. He's a clever old stick.
This is the AAN as at 6pm tonight... Harnessed up and ready for the RallyRep
Workshop time's a bit tight for the next week or so, progress will resume beginning of Feb. This'll give time for the ECU to go on Holiday with it's map.
The old girl has run out to just over 300 miles now... And it gets better by the mile, it really does. The engine started off tight, and slightly disagreeable, felt almost slightly off balance, but somehow different from the worn/old engine... Initially I felt the engine was slightly off, but with every mile it's smoothed out. Power has never been an issue, it felt strong from day one, however the slight off balance feel has completely gone now... It just wants to pull, which is "verboten" for such a new engine. Boost also appears to be strong, low down, which is quirky for a WR engined quattro, by 2.5k it's spooling up and working, by 3k it's away, which, again is "verboten"...
We can't wait to start stretching her out a bit... It just feels like it wants to run and run.
It also looks all bright and shiny, mainly because there is so little of the original mechanicals left it's scary.
We can't wait to start stretching her out a bit... It just feels like it wants to run and run.
It also looks all bright and shiny, mainly because there is so little of the original mechanicals left it's scary.
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