Back Tracking.....
Discussion
So I know I've infuriated many with my initial scatter gun approach and then sole desire to hand the car to someone to sort rather than do the "decent" thing and DIY - I was in a very bad place tbh....BUT my head is in a bit better place now - certain things have moved or are clearing and it really is time to grasp the TVR nettle (thanks to those who've been chivying away at me in the background!).
I've decided the first thing to do is back track the changes I've made.
So here's the thing - when I bought the car it had major stumbling/fluffing when you tried to step on the loud pedal BUT it did have periods of clarity (usually when hot) where everything was fine and it rev'd and went like stink with no issues.
Currently I have this strange almost rev limiter like thing happening at the top end. Now bearing in mind I have only done less than 100 miles in the car since buying it and have been randomly doing things to sort the initial problem out, I'm thinking something I've done must have brought about this change. So I'm back tracking over whast I've done:
The ONLY things that I think are irreversible/pointless changing are the brand new Magnecor leads and plugs. Oh and resoldering the ECU - not really possible to desolder it but I guess there must be a question mark against it having been resoldered.
The things that I am back tracking on are:
TPS adjustment - I adjusted this when I was having idling problems which I now know were down to gasket failure on offside rocker allowing big air bypass of AFM. The initial TPS setting was 0 volts at idle - yes, 0 volts at idle - it was set hard back againts it's stops clockwise (the 3 lug BIG TPS). At the time I reset to .3 volts as per HonestJohn
Dizzy - I stuck a new ignition amp on the original dizzy but never tried it on a run becasue of the idling problems I was sorting out and in the end bought and fitted a complete new dizzy/amp without actually checking the old/replacement amp combo.
So today I've
1)stuck the old dizzy back in (with the new amp - I still have the old amp if necesary)
2)reset the TPS to 0 volts as it was when purchased - this is technically wrong but I've no idea if the AFM has been recalibrated so who knows. It sounds wrong but I know that it did perform well (for periods) when first bought.
3)Drilled the 1mm hole in the mushroom breather that mysteriously wasn't there - shouldn't make a any difference in the grand scheme of things but it's there for a reason.
4)WD40'd all electrical connections
The battery is charging now so won't find out where we are til tonight/tomorrow but should be interesting!
May need to borrow an ecu to eliminate my resoldering of the original causing top end problems.
Onwards and upwards...
I've decided the first thing to do is back track the changes I've made.
So here's the thing - when I bought the car it had major stumbling/fluffing when you tried to step on the loud pedal BUT it did have periods of clarity (usually when hot) where everything was fine and it rev'd and went like stink with no issues.
Currently I have this strange almost rev limiter like thing happening at the top end. Now bearing in mind I have only done less than 100 miles in the car since buying it and have been randomly doing things to sort the initial problem out, I'm thinking something I've done must have brought about this change. So I'm back tracking over whast I've done:
The ONLY things that I think are irreversible/pointless changing are the brand new Magnecor leads and plugs. Oh and resoldering the ECU - not really possible to desolder it but I guess there must be a question mark against it having been resoldered.
The things that I am back tracking on are:
TPS adjustment - I adjusted this when I was having idling problems which I now know were down to gasket failure on offside rocker allowing big air bypass of AFM. The initial TPS setting was 0 volts at idle - yes, 0 volts at idle - it was set hard back againts it's stops clockwise (the 3 lug BIG TPS). At the time I reset to .3 volts as per HonestJohn
Dizzy - I stuck a new ignition amp on the original dizzy but never tried it on a run becasue of the idling problems I was sorting out and in the end bought and fitted a complete new dizzy/amp without actually checking the old/replacement amp combo.
So today I've
1)stuck the old dizzy back in (with the new amp - I still have the old amp if necesary)
2)reset the TPS to 0 volts as it was when purchased - this is technically wrong but I've no idea if the AFM has been recalibrated so who knows. It sounds wrong but I know that it did perform well (for periods) when first bought.
3)Drilled the 1mm hole in the mushroom breather that mysteriously wasn't there - shouldn't make a any difference in the grand scheme of things but it's there for a reason.
4)WD40'd all electrical connections
The battery is charging now so won't find out where we are til tonight/tomorrow but should be interesting!
May need to borrow an ecu to eliminate my resoldering of the original causing top end problems.
Onwards and upwards...
Edited by smash on Friday 1st August 11:30
@ V8fettler In the end no - but importantly I now have the bit between my teeth (well, someone's placed it there but I'm thankful!)
So have backtracked, I'll set timing tonight and go forward one stage at a time...
Actually there is another thing - the timing when I got it was only 5 odd degrees at idle so I guess I need to also add to the "to do" list - check Top Dead Centre corelates to 0 degree timing mark.
I have read before Rovers are notorious for TDC mark being out.
@Wedg1e - I'm getting this effect with a brand new Powerspark style distributor - this is why I'm going back to the original dizzy - could be cheap parts syndrome
So have backtracked, I'll set timing tonight and go forward one stage at a time...
Actually there is another thing - the timing when I got it was only 5 odd degrees at idle so I guess I need to also add to the "to do" list - check Top Dead Centre corelates to 0 degree timing mark.
I have read before Rovers are notorious for TDC mark being out.
@Wedg1e - I'm getting this effect with a brand new Powerspark style distributor - this is why I'm going back to the original dizzy - could be cheap parts syndrome
Edited by smash on Friday 1st August 14:11
DISASTER!!
Now here's the weird thing again with the ignition switch when the battery was first put back in - on turning on very loud click from somewhere under the bonnet (OHS) then 0 volts on gauge.
Turn off ignition
turn on again - 11 volts for a second then dropped to 0 volts
Turn to crank no clicks no volts
turn off ignition
try again - exactly the same behaviour
try again - 10 volts
Turn to crank some relay "churing" noise from relay block
Turn off
try again - 10 Volts
Turn to crank - engine flicks over for brief moment
turn off
try again - 12 volts
turn to crank - engine turns over and starts after 3/4 seconds turning
Run to warm up - set up timing to 8 degrees and idle at 900rpm for a good 10 mins then made fatal mistake of "just nipping round the block"
It was hinting at the rev limit thing from early revs but then seemed OK and was pulling nicely until it just cut out without warning (much like the MOT trip before) I managed to bump it down the hill but it wanted to die and I had to keep the revs up to 3k and slipping clutch to keep it moving as it was trying to cut out then just died completely and wouldn't start. Not even a hint of firing.
Unceremonious push home helped by someone who said "Shame - it sounded awesome when you went past!". Second time the cars come home like this.
Think we have electrical gremlins (no s
t!) - need an auto-electrician I think. I suspect it's connected to the whole rev limitery thing. Maybe fuel pump is having feed cut through the electrical shenanigans.
Now here's the weird thing again with the ignition switch when the battery was first put back in - on turning on very loud click from somewhere under the bonnet (OHS) then 0 volts on gauge.
Turn off ignition
turn on again - 11 volts for a second then dropped to 0 volts
Turn to crank no clicks no volts
turn off ignition
try again - exactly the same behaviour
try again - 10 volts
Turn to crank some relay "churing" noise from relay block
Turn off
try again - 10 Volts
Turn to crank - engine flicks over for brief moment
turn off
try again - 12 volts
turn to crank - engine turns over and starts after 3/4 seconds turning
Run to warm up - set up timing to 8 degrees and idle at 900rpm for a good 10 mins then made fatal mistake of "just nipping round the block"
It was hinting at the rev limit thing from early revs but then seemed OK and was pulling nicely until it just cut out without warning (much like the MOT trip before) I managed to bump it down the hill but it wanted to die and I had to keep the revs up to 3k and slipping clutch to keep it moving as it was trying to cut out then just died completely and wouldn't start. Not even a hint of firing.
Unceremonious push home helped by someone who said "Shame - it sounded awesome when you went past!". Second time the cars come home like this.
Think we have electrical gremlins (no s
t!) - need an auto-electrician I think. I suspect it's connected to the whole rev limitery thing. Maybe fuel pump is having feed cut through the electrical shenanigans.
Worth a try!
Am calm and fully intend to be methodical.
Not gonna have much time today but willing to wager it'll start today for some reason. The problem is recreating the fault without getting stranded. Multi meter at the ready...
Anyway back to basics. Fuel pressure gauge and spark indicators at the ready.
@superwedge - yhm
Closing FTSA low loader index 4.5k!
Am calm and fully intend to be methodical.
Not gonna have much time today but willing to wager it'll start today for some reason. The problem is recreating the fault without getting stranded. Multi meter at the ready...
Anyway back to basics. Fuel pressure gauge and spark indicators at the ready.
@superwedge - yhm
Closing FTSA low loader index 4.5k!
Edited by smash on Saturday 2nd August 17:37
Right so full charged battery reconnected.
Cranking with good fuel pressure but not firing.
Attach direct lead from +ve to coil +ve - I hear fuel injectors click.
Cranking but not firing.
I attach a couple of spark indicators to number 2 and number 8.
Cranking no spark
I hold king lead to plenum.
Cranking and spark from king lead (not amazing)
I swap dizzy cap back to original car came with.
Cranking no spark
I swap rotor arm back to original car came with.
Cranking and then spark starts weak at first - no firing.
Cranking strong indicator light on firing but also dimly lighting for all other cylinders firing - is this tracking?
Cranking for a minute with foot flat on floor - car starts to fire. Runs very rough misfiring for 10 seconds cuts out
Crank again with WOT and car fires running rough will not idle until 20/30 seconds rough reving - idles briefly then cuts out.
Switch rotor arm back cranking and no spark.
Switch again and sparking but doesn't really want to fire.
All a bit weird and still don't understand how the car could be running and driving Saturday and then just cut out if it's rotor arm/cap issue. Also wondering whether the new magnecors are actually sitting right down into the cap and making good connection. Bit confusing. A mate of mine said that a knackered battery can play havoc with EFi system - is that possible?
Cranking with good fuel pressure but not firing.
Attach direct lead from +ve to coil +ve - I hear fuel injectors click.
Cranking but not firing.
I attach a couple of spark indicators to number 2 and number 8.
Cranking no spark
I hold king lead to plenum.
Cranking and spark from king lead (not amazing)
I swap dizzy cap back to original car came with.
Cranking no spark
I swap rotor arm back to original car came with.
Cranking and then spark starts weak at first - no firing.
Cranking strong indicator light on firing but also dimly lighting for all other cylinders firing - is this tracking?
Cranking for a minute with foot flat on floor - car starts to fire. Runs very rough misfiring for 10 seconds cuts out
Crank again with WOT and car fires running rough will not idle until 20/30 seconds rough reving - idles briefly then cuts out.
Switch rotor arm back cranking and no spark.
Switch again and sparking but doesn't really want to fire.
All a bit weird and still don't understand how the car could be running and driving Saturday and then just cut out if it's rotor arm/cap issue. Also wondering whether the new magnecors are actually sitting right down into the cap and making good connection. Bit confusing. A mate of mine said that a knackered battery can play havoc with EFi system - is that possible?
Edited by smash on Monday 4th August 17:34
Edited by smash on Monday 4th August 17:43
For clarity I stuck a new ignition amp on the original dizzy, I also have a brand new complete dizzy i.e.new rotor arm, cap amp etc.
Will get a new Bosch coil and refit the new dizzy and see where we're at. Not sure how to fit tester in line with king lead?
I did clean earth from battery to rear of engine and rear of engine to bonnet release catch but Dave Superwedge just pointed out another earth bolt at front nearside I hadn't seen and it looks a bit cruddy so will clean that up - cheers Dave! (nice wedge btw)
Will get a new Bosch coil and refit the new dizzy and see where we're at. Not sure how to fit tester in line with king lead?
I did clean earth from battery to rear of engine and rear of engine to bonnet release catch but Dave Superwedge just pointed out another earth bolt at front nearside I hadn't seen and it looks a bit cruddy so will clean that up - cheers Dave! (nice wedge btw)
Edited by smash on Monday 4th August 19:21
The Curse of the Black "Pearl" continues....
I ring my local Europarts early morning for a coil - nonee on shelf but will have Bosch here for you by 1pm. borrow car and drive to Rayleigh at 1.30. Ah, sorry - it didn't turn up - we did definitely put the order in. Grrrr!!!
Anyways, back to business. Cleaned up the earth that goes to chassis nearside front nose and all associated straps. Also added an extra strap from bellhousing to AFM body which links down to chassis.
Took old dizzy out, put new dizzy in - still not sure about king lead spark - I mean how far's it supposed to jump etc? Anyway, definite spark and at plugs.
Wouldn't start - cranked with WOT for good 30/40 seconds before it started to catch and then eventually started rough as anything. It suddenly cleared and started idling and speeding up then cut out.
Again nearly impossible to start - currently guessed timing as couldn't get it running to adjust.
So not really any progress. I did notice when reving it after it cleared initially that it was doing the "banging" thing it had been doing at top end of revs when last out on road. Thought this may be down to weak mix as TPS set to zero.... cue the final curse - one of the TPS screws sheered off whilst adjusting - will need drilling out.
Given up on it for today. I need to check TDC manually and get timing roughly right I think but there is still something very wrong with the injection/ignition. Plus side the earths seem to have helped speed the windows going back up!
I ring my local Europarts early morning for a coil - nonee on shelf but will have Bosch here for you by 1pm. borrow car and drive to Rayleigh at 1.30. Ah, sorry - it didn't turn up - we did definitely put the order in. Grrrr!!!
Anyways, back to business. Cleaned up the earth that goes to chassis nearside front nose and all associated straps. Also added an extra strap from bellhousing to AFM body which links down to chassis.
Took old dizzy out, put new dizzy in - still not sure about king lead spark - I mean how far's it supposed to jump etc? Anyway, definite spark and at plugs.
Wouldn't start - cranked with WOT for good 30/40 seconds before it started to catch and then eventually started rough as anything. It suddenly cleared and started idling and speeding up then cut out.
Again nearly impossible to start - currently guessed timing as couldn't get it running to adjust.
So not really any progress. I did notice when reving it after it cleared initially that it was doing the "banging" thing it had been doing at top end of revs when last out on road. Thought this may be down to weak mix as TPS set to zero.... cue the final curse - one of the TPS screws sheered off whilst adjusting - will need drilling out.
Given up on it for today. I need to check TDC manually and get timing roughly right I think but there is still something very wrong with the injection/ignition. Plus side the earths seem to have helped speed the windows going back up!
OK so new Bosch coil in and checked the TDC mark with dial gauge.
When is TDC not TDC? When it's 4 degrees after the TDC mark!
This probably explains why the timing was set to 4 degrees when I first checked it and then thought "that's wrong" and went about setting it to what I thought was correct at 8 degrees!
Anyhow after pfaffing around today it still really did not want to start - missing massively to start with then settled down after a minute or so.
Set the timing to 4 degrees per marking which is actually 8 degrees and although it was idling it always felt like it would cut out. After sopping and then attempting to restart we were back to the really don't want to start without holding WOT.
Compression test in order methinks just to rule out anything mechanical and then the suspect has to be fueling....
When is TDC not TDC? When it's 4 degrees after the TDC mark!
This probably explains why the timing was set to 4 degrees when I first checked it and then thought "that's wrong" and went about setting it to what I thought was correct at 8 degrees!
Anyhow after pfaffing around today it still really did not want to start - missing massively to start with then settled down after a minute or so.
Set the timing to 4 degrees per marking which is actually 8 degrees and although it was idling it always felt like it would cut out. After sopping and then attempting to restart we were back to the really don't want to start without holding WOT.
Compression test in order methinks just to rule out anything mechanical and then the suspect has to be fueling....
Hi Chris - I used a dial gauge in adapted spark plug casing to check TDC which actually equates to 4 degrees after TDC on the markings so it's out but not massivly so and certainly nothing to cause the severe starting issues etc. I triple checked firing order btw, lol! using offset I set timing to indicated 4 degrees before TDC on damper markers which equates to 8 degrees in the real world.
Hi Ron - don't worry! I'm gonna be chasing you up to run through the wedge pages wiring check at ECU plug end assuming compression check is OK!
@V8fettler - yep, I'm going methodically I think (for me!) - not going to do anything more until I've tested compression and can (hopefully) rule out mechanical foul play.
Current characteristics = bd to start (needs cranking with WOT), runs rough misfiring massively to start with then smooths out to fire (audibly) on all cylinders and reasonably steady idle. If switched off still bdly difficult to start even when warm.
Hi Ron - don't worry! I'm gonna be chasing you up to run through the wedge pages wiring check at ECU plug end assuming compression check is OK!
@V8fettler - yep, I'm going methodically I think (for me!) - not going to do anything more until I've tested compression and can (hopefully) rule out mechanical foul play.
Current characteristics = b
d to start (needs cranking with WOT), runs rough misfiring massively to start with then smooths out to fire (audibly) on all cylinders and reasonably steady idle. If switched off still bdly difficult to start even when warm.Edited by smash on Sunday 10th August 14:14
Not even attempting to drive it lol! Will idle indefinitely with the odd save from dying with throttle.
Right - todays activity = compression check
bh to start again - warmed up to 75 on gauge then pulled fuel pump relay and king lead, removed plugs and the results went like this:
First test set
2 - 175 1 - 200
4 - 180 3 - 190
6 - 190 5 - 190
8 - 180 7 - 200
Decided to run a second set to double check inconsistencies and got these results
Second test set
2 - 230 (!) 1 - 210
4 - 220 3 - 210
6 - 220 5 - 200
8 - 220 7 - 200
Anyone got any thoughts?
Right - todays activity = compression check
b
h to start again - warmed up to 75 on gauge then pulled fuel pump relay and king lead, removed plugs and the results went like this:First test set
2 - 175 1 - 200
4 - 180 3 - 190
6 - 190 5 - 190
8 - 180 7 - 200
Decided to run a second set to double check inconsistencies and got these results
Second test set
2 - 230 (!) 1 - 210
4 - 220 3 - 210
6 - 220 5 - 200
8 - 220 7 - 200
Anyone got any thoughts?
Gassing Station | Wedges | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff