280i temparature
Discussion
Morning gents,
I've probably put 1000 miles on the car since the rebuild. One thing I've noticed is the temp needle routinely sits between just above half way (90C) and approaching the 3/4 mark (no temp marking) on the gauge. I can't remember where the needle used to sit before the rebuild so wondered if other owners could advise where their temp needle sits please?
During the rebuild I had the rad professionally flushed and pressure tested, I replaced the water pump with a new one, replaced all hoses of course, and also bypassed the heater matrix completely. Alternator/water pump belt is tensioned correctly.
The fan is just the original viscous job with no shroud etc, which makes idling at the lights an interesting experience as the temp climbs due to no airflow and fan slowing down with engine speed.
Given it gets hot here (37C today) I would like to ensure the engine is looked after and the cooling system is as good as it can be.
Any thoughts?
I've probably put 1000 miles on the car since the rebuild. One thing I've noticed is the temp needle routinely sits between just above half way (90C) and approaching the 3/4 mark (no temp marking) on the gauge. I can't remember where the needle used to sit before the rebuild so wondered if other owners could advise where their temp needle sits please?
During the rebuild I had the rad professionally flushed and pressure tested, I replaced the water pump with a new one, replaced all hoses of course, and also bypassed the heater matrix completely. Alternator/water pump belt is tensioned correctly.
The fan is just the original viscous job with no shroud etc, which makes idling at the lights an interesting experience as the temp climbs due to no airflow and fan slowing down with engine speed.
Given it gets hot here (37C today) I would like to ensure the engine is looked after and the cooling system is as good as it can be.
Any thoughts?
A very quick scan of the web uncovers loads of aftermarket fan/shroud combos. Given my air filter intake is right behind the rad a shroud might make a lot of sense.
I can see this is going to escalate into a new custom aluminium rad/thermatic fan with a dash switch override and shroud....then I could nose mount it to reduce engine bay temp.....
I can see this is going to escalate into a new custom aluminium rad/thermatic fan with a dash switch override and shroud....then I could nose mount it to reduce engine bay temp.....
So I took the car to my mechanic/auto electrician for a couple of minor things and discussed an electric fan to replace the viscous. Left the keys and asked the receptionist to call me with a quote for the thermatic fan instal.
Didn't hear for a few days which was a tad unusual, so I dropped in after work on Wednesday. "should be finished tomorrow" he said. "we still need to fit the temp sensor in the radiator.
The message about getting a quote seemingly didn't make it to the workshop and I now have a electrically cooled wedge. Very nice job it is too. Cuts in at 87 although the temp gauge reads maybe 91-92.
Job done.
Didn't hear for a few days which was a tad unusual, so I dropped in after work on Wednesday. "should be finished tomorrow" he said. "we still need to fit the temp sensor in the radiator.
The message about getting a quote seemingly didn't make it to the workshop and I now have a electrically cooled wedge. Very nice job it is too. Cuts in at 87 although the temp gauge reads maybe 91-92.
Job done.
..although 87 sounds a bit cool TBH....The thermostat should be rated for 86 so ideally the fan should kick on at around 90-92..
Ziga
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Zig, so is the Bible wrong? It says thermostat should be 82 deg so that's what I installed. Otherwise I agree, the fan would be on all the time.
Ziga
[/quote]
Zig, so is the Bible wrong? It says thermostat should be 82 deg so that's what I installed. Otherwise I agree, the fan would be on all the time.
With the warmer weather coming (32C today) the wedge is not keeping her cool. Temp never sits below half way (90 deg on the gauge) and pushes up to just under 3/4 in heavy traffic. rad cap is blank and header tank is 110kpa.
I'm going to check tomorrow what temp the fan cuts in at, but its seems too late, Temp is already heading towards 3/4 and the fan struggles to stabilise it.
I will also check the specs on the fan that was supplied to see how much air it moves and compare that to other aftermarket fans.
One thing that bugs me and I don't have an answer to is where all that hot air goes. Nothing comes out of the two mesh bonnet vents so it must all be going down the transmission tunnel after superheating everything under the bonnet. If you pop the bonnet loads of hot air rushes out.
Rad was reconditioned before refitting, and there a new water pump on it.
My goal is to have the car cool in 40+ deg C so there is some work to do,..
I'm going to check tomorrow what temp the fan cuts in at, but its seems too late, Temp is already heading towards 3/4 and the fan struggles to stabilise it.
I will also check the specs on the fan that was supplied to see how much air it moves and compare that to other aftermarket fans.
One thing that bugs me and I don't have an answer to is where all that hot air goes. Nothing comes out of the two mesh bonnet vents so it must all be going down the transmission tunnel after superheating everything under the bonnet. If you pop the bonnet loads of hot air rushes out.
Rad was reconditioned before refitting, and there a new water pump on it.
My goal is to have the car cool in 40+ deg C so there is some work to do,..
Thanks Zig, but I'm not following your logic on lower temp thermostat. Once engine is up to temp it won't make any difference will it? And if I put a lower pressure cap on the rad the boiling temp will reduce and she'll blow easier, no?
Joe, I agree, lower temp otter switch will give the fan more time to work, finding out if that's possible today, plus whether there's a bigger more powerful fan.
There are no silly questions, but yes, the fan is working the right way, don't ask me how I know this.
Joe, I agree, lower temp otter switch will give the fan more time to work, finding out if that's possible today, plus whether there's a bigger more powerful fan.
There are no silly questions, but yes, the fan is working the right way, don't ask me how I know this.
Great comments thanks guys.
Car doesn't boil just gets hot. Andy I was careful with the thermostat orientation but I guess I can't be 100%. Only way to know for sure is to drain the coolant and remove the bottom hose I guess. I got it from Burton Power for the Cologne motor but I don't know about the bypass issue you mention.
looks like it's rad out and some aluminium fabrication are in order. Concern I have is there's very little space between the back of the electric motor and the front of the old viscous fan mount/pulley. If I put a shroud on it I need some clearance for airflow across the back of the rad.
Still need to confirm the opening temp of the otter switch too as that is an easier fix. Its not adjustable so it will need swapping out.
Car doesn't boil just gets hot. Andy I was careful with the thermostat orientation but I guess I can't be 100%. Only way to know for sure is to drain the coolant and remove the bottom hose I guess. I got it from Burton Power for the Cologne motor but I don't know about the bypass issue you mention.
looks like it's rad out and some aluminium fabrication are in order. Concern I have is there's very little space between the back of the electric motor and the front of the old viscous fan mount/pulley. If I put a shroud on it I need some clearance for airflow across the back of the rad.
Still need to confirm the opening temp of the otter switch too as that is an easier fix. Its not adjustable so it will need swapping out.
Update: I've had partial success by making up a radiator shroud our of galv sheet spaced as far back from the rad as possible which wasn't very far, maybe 2 inches. Result is that the car get to temp quicker due to less airflow with fan off, but when the fan comes on, it is far more effective than it was pre-shroud at pulling the temp down.
However...
I got an infrared thermometer gun to see what was going on. This tells me that:
1. The fan thermoswitch is set to come on at 85C and does, exactly. However the sensor is at the bottom of the rad,
2. The temp gauge sensor is at the top of the engine and reads fairly accurately.
3. Water that is going back to the rad is typically 90-92C which seems too hot.
So it seems the engine heats up the water by around 7 degrees from when it enters to when it exits. I don't know what temp the fan is set to switch off but I think it's going off too soon.
The thermostat is 82C so if is keep the fan on longer by swapping out the sender or getting an adjustable one, the stat will close!
Taking out the thermostat is unwise because the water will flow faster and the rad won;t be able to cool it before it goes back into the engine.
So my thinking is that (short of buying a custom radiator) I need a lower temp thermostat (anyone know if they exist?) and a thermoswith (otter) that keeps the fan on longer.
Does that make sense?
However...
I got an infrared thermometer gun to see what was going on. This tells me that:
1. The fan thermoswitch is set to come on at 85C and does, exactly. However the sensor is at the bottom of the rad,
2. The temp gauge sensor is at the top of the engine and reads fairly accurately.
3. Water that is going back to the rad is typically 90-92C which seems too hot.
So it seems the engine heats up the water by around 7 degrees from when it enters to when it exits. I don't know what temp the fan is set to switch off but I think it's going off too soon.
The thermostat is 82C so if is keep the fan on longer by swapping out the sender or getting an adjustable one, the stat will close!
Taking out the thermostat is unwise because the water will flow faster and the rad won;t be able to cool it before it goes back into the engine.
So my thinking is that (short of buying a custom radiator) I need a lower temp thermostat (anyone know if they exist?) and a thermoswith (otter) that keeps the fan on longer.
Does that make sense?
Good question, I don't know, but I'm going to buy one of those thermometers and find out on my other cars.
I'd also like to know what the ideal temp for the Cologne motor is. Presumably somewhere around mid 80s C.
It also seems the motor is heating the water up 7 degrees - in at 85 and out at 92, and that shouldn't change much. So If i want it coming out the top at mid-high 80s then it needs to go in the bottom a little cooler than it currently is. BUT with the switch turning off the fan at 85 that will never happen.
You know what, a fan override switch will be a cheap way to test the theory... fan on longer should get temp down to 82 before the stat closes...
I'd also like to know what the ideal temp for the Cologne motor is. Presumably somewhere around mid 80s C.
It also seems the motor is heating the water up 7 degrees - in at 85 and out at 92, and that shouldn't change much. So If i want it coming out the top at mid-high 80s then it needs to go in the bottom a little cooler than it currently is. BUT with the switch turning off the fan at 85 that will never happen.
You know what, a fan override switch will be a cheap way to test the theory... fan on longer should get temp down to 82 before the stat closes...
Hmmm, it is a bit isn't it... can't afford it at the moment as the cars getting a full stainless exhaust system over the holidays, and I'm buying a set of factory alloys for another car for $2k tomorrow.
One question though, doesn't an alloy radiator plus a cast iron block equal electrolysis?
One question though, doesn't an alloy radiator plus a cast iron block equal electrolysis?
v8s4me said:
Blimey! Are they gold plated? 
Presumably they go with the frankincense air freshener and myrrh leather cream?
Haha, that's actually quite good for Quattroporte Sport GT 20' rims. The original owner helpfully opted for the standard 19"s so I'm putting things right, but I digress.Presumably they go with the frankincense air freshener and myrrh leather cream?
Adam, re electrolysis, I wasn't aware that corrosion inhibitor prevents it? My very imperfect understanding is that stray current can occur in coolant where unlike metals exist (aluminium rad and iron block) if earthing isn't up to scratch.
33C here today and the car was struggling to stay under 3/4 on the dial at speed or idle so I might need to bite the bullet and look into a custom rad.
.
Thanks Zig, yes the guys I'm thinking of using made me a rad for my Jensen and that needed some serious cooling.. They recommended a SPAL brand fan when I spoke to them about the Tiv the other week.
I was looking at the car today and there's heaps of room for a thicker (upright) rad so I'm hoping a solution won't be too difficult.
I WILL have a cool wedge.
I was looking at the car today and there's heaps of room for a thicker (upright) rad so I'm hoping a solution won't be too difficult.
I WILL have a cool wedge.
Paid a visit to the radiator company today. They're pricing up a package of an aluminium rad with two wide cores (saw an example which looked 70-80mm thick) plus two 11 inch SPAL fans which move 3200cfm together...
Edit: Hmm. Looked up those fans and they draw 2 x 36 amps which might be a bridge too far for my 55A alternator..
Rad will use the existing uprights but will be moved further forward to accommodate the deeper fans. All to be made to fit existing hoses and fittings.
Edit: Hmm. Looked up those fans and they draw 2 x 36 amps which might be a bridge too far for my 55A alternator..
Rad will use the existing uprights but will be moved further forward to accommodate the deeper fans. All to be made to fit existing hoses and fittings.
Edited by 440Interceptor on Friday 5th January 11:13
Yeah, I agree with you, and those points have crossed my mind too. Specs on that fan say it draws up to 40A and needs a 120A alternator, so I think two of them is going to be overkill.
It's early days and I don't know what all of the options are yet, in terms of staggered switching etc, but at least there's plenty of room to accommodate a thicker rad.
It's early days and I don't know what all of the options are yet, in terms of staggered switching etc, but at least there's plenty of room to accommodate a thicker rad.
Edited by 440Interceptor on Saturday 6th January 01:07
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