350i Water Pump
Discussion
Sorry me again 
Well exhaust bits on order 2 olives and vibration mounts, thanks for the contributions to my previous post.
Now onto the next job...failing water pump. As time rolls on parts become scarce and solutions become more imaginative.
It would appear that the 350i has a water pump cast from precious metals (I am told by a 12-year-old Netherite). I have been looking at GWP2149 as a replacement. My current setup has 2 pulleys for alt/ps.
Just to add to my old muddled grey matter it appears that there are size differences and shaft configurations.
The only ones I can find, and not that many seem to go for 120 odd quid upwards when adding VAT and shipping.
Does anyone have any wise pearls of wisdom to reduce that cost?
Or even a shoutout, perhaps there is a spare of a spare sitting in the garage stock somewhere gathering dust.
I can stand to be corrected as usual.
Once again I look forward to more than helpful contributions on already done to death subject.
Cheers
Well exhaust bits on order 2 olives and vibration mounts, thanks for the contributions to my previous post.
Now onto the next job...failing water pump. As time rolls on parts become scarce and solutions become more imaginative.
It would appear that the 350i has a water pump cast from precious metals (I am told by a 12-year-old Netherite). I have been looking at GWP2149 as a replacement. My current setup has 2 pulleys for alt/ps.
Just to add to my old muddled grey matter it appears that there are size differences and shaft configurations.
The only ones I can find, and not that many seem to go for 120 odd quid upwards when adding VAT and shipping.
Does anyone have any wise pearls of wisdom to reduce that cost?
Or even a shoutout, perhaps there is a spare of a spare sitting in the garage stock somewhere gathering dust.
I can stand to be corrected as usual.
Once again I look forward to more than helpful contributions on already done to death subject.
Cheers
Hi,
Yes, thanks for the info I have been pretty much been to all of those sites.
Due to exhaust work ongoing, I haven't removed the water pump for comparison as yet.
However, I am aware of long and short nose versions.
What I do know is my dimension from the 3 hole inner flange to the end of the threaded shaft is around 40mm this accommodates the 2 pulleys and a nut.
It would appear from reading that Rover SD1 have many versions, to accommodate various fan/pulley setups, therein lies the problem with Fleabay second user ones of which there are a few (these are also a punt of condition). They all appear to have very long shafts outside of the casing, which do not match my short 40mm that I have, these will also potentially fail the upper cross member. I assume that the nut holds on the second pulley. The closest Fleabay one that I have found is 80mm long.
The protruding shaft size more matches this picture:
Yes, thanks for the info I have been pretty much been to all of those sites.
Due to exhaust work ongoing, I haven't removed the water pump for comparison as yet.
However, I am aware of long and short nose versions.
What I do know is my dimension from the 3 hole inner flange to the end of the threaded shaft is around 40mm this accommodates the 2 pulleys and a nut.
It would appear from reading that Rover SD1 have many versions, to accommodate various fan/pulley setups, therein lies the problem with Fleabay second user ones of which there are a few (these are also a punt of condition). They all appear to have very long shafts outside of the casing, which do not match my short 40mm that I have, these will also potentially fail the upper cross member. I assume that the nut holds on the second pulley. The closest Fleabay one that I have found is 80mm long.
The protruding shaft size more matches this picture:
Hi Adam, arh so that's where they have all gone. Yes had been reading about cutting down the shaft.
Also came across some guy rebuilding one. Parts are press fit but required a hydraulic press. Very detailed with pictures and alternative seal types.
I have yet to find a repair kit, although they must have sold them at some point I guess.
I have found one on Fleabay will give that a punt as an interim, at least I may end up with a couple to rebuild
Ray
Also came across some guy rebuilding one. Parts are press fit but required a hydraulic press. Very detailed with pictures and alternative seal types.
I have yet to find a repair kit, although they must have sold them at some point I guess.
I have found one on Fleabay will give that a punt as an interim, at least I may end up with a couple to rebuild
Ray
Edited by BlueWedgy on Tuesday 2nd February 15:23
Edited by BlueWedgy on Tuesday 2nd February 15:53
Hi Adam,
No problem. Please see the below link to rebuild a pump.
https://roverp5.proboards.com/thread/11789/rover-v...
Ray
No problem. Please see the below link to rebuild a pump.
https://roverp5.proboards.com/thread/11789/rover-v...
Ray
Thanks that would be interesting, as to cost.
Interestingly this seal looks very similar to that shown in the Rover / MG link above.
https://www.poolandspacentre.co.uk/products/waterw...
Interestingly this seal looks very similar to that shown in the Rover / MG link above.
https://www.poolandspacentre.co.uk/products/waterw...
Hi Adam,
Well again funnily having a bit of time on my hands at the moment I have been looking, and came across this:
https://www.hendersonbearings.co.uk/water-pump-spi...
And here same supplier.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Water-Pump-Spindle-Bear...
I have messaged them via fleabay to see if they sell the bearing on its own.
Although this not the bearing on its own, it matched the info posted on the MG site. I then began to think could the bearing be pushed off the shaft for reuse?
Ray
Well again funnily having a bit of time on my hands at the moment I have been looking, and came across this:
https://www.hendersonbearings.co.uk/water-pump-spi...
And here same supplier.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Water-Pump-Spindle-Bear...
I have messaged them via fleabay to see if they sell the bearing on its own.
Although this not the bearing on its own, it matched the info posted on the MG site. I then began to think could the bearing be pushed off the shaft for reuse?
Ray
Edited by BlueWedgy on Wednesday 3rd February 07:20
OK so after a couple of mind-numbing communications via Fleabay they say that it comes as an assembly only. So I guess they buy it from somewhere as a unit.
My best guess at this point would be as mentioned see if it can be separated from its shaft, is this worth the £20 odd pound punt?
If all bits fit and the original failed unit is still serviceable this will give a refurbed pump price of about £25 + time and effort. Obviously, a press will be required for all aspects of this.
However, as I am currently a casualty of the Covid-19 unemployment situation, I may well carry on trawling the Interweb for the bearing on its own. If I can find anything other than that posted previously, I will update as and when.
Ray
My best guess at this point would be as mentioned see if it can be separated from its shaft, is this worth the £20 odd pound punt?
If all bits fit and the original failed unit is still serviceable this will give a refurbed pump price of about £25 + time and effort. Obviously, a press will be required for all aspects of this.
However, as I am currently a casualty of the Covid-19 unemployment situation, I may well carry on trawling the Interweb for the bearing on its own. If I can find anything other than that posted previously, I will update as and when.
Ray
Been a while so here’s a bit of an update on this…
I tend to agree with Adam's observation regarding removal, which I will mention a bit later on.
After much searching I am unable to find a direct bearing replacement, I have concentrated only on UK suppliers. The supplier that I found does not charge delivery (which can bump up price) if anyone has any other bearing requirements.
However, the UK based supplier that I found (simplybearings.co.uk) stock a shaft and bearing. Linked here:
https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/advanced_search_...
They have confirmed Adams's comment that removal of the bearing would be difficult, they cannot supply the bearing that is not attached to the shaft.
Further to this, I found a bearing that is very near to the bearing dimensions shown in the US topic however the OD is below that of 30mm, being 28.58. I am also not sure how robust it is.
My thought is could this be sleaved to fit?
https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p690204/LMB10UU-...
Currently, I do not have an water old pump to try and disassemble to compare internals.
That’s about it I think.
I tend to agree with Adam's observation regarding removal, which I will mention a bit later on.
After much searching I am unable to find a direct bearing replacement, I have concentrated only on UK suppliers. The supplier that I found does not charge delivery (which can bump up price) if anyone has any other bearing requirements.
However, the UK based supplier that I found (simplybearings.co.uk) stock a shaft and bearing. Linked here:
https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/advanced_search_...
They have confirmed Adams's comment that removal of the bearing would be difficult, they cannot supply the bearing that is not attached to the shaft.
Further to this, I found a bearing that is very near to the bearing dimensions shown in the US topic however the OD is below that of 30mm, being 28.58. I am also not sure how robust it is.
My thought is could this be sleaved to fit?
https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p690204/LMB10UU-...
Currently, I do not have an water old pump to try and disassemble to compare internals.
That’s about it I think.
Hi Adam,
Always good for another pair of eyes to look at these things. I was so concentrated on the dimensions. I missed the description and fact that it was a linear version
Thanks for pointing out the error of my ways.
As the exact OD has as yet eluded me I was also trying to find a bearing that was at the very least undersize, as opposed to oversize as the casting would probably not take any if much machining oversize.
Yes it is also a tad under in length as well.
I notice that the make is KG which appears to be an Indian company linked here:
https://www.kginternational.com/water-pump-bearing...
Yes, presses are a little expensive for the probability of so little use. There is plenty of info on the Interweb on homemade bottle jack presses, something else I was looking at as well.
When things pick up for us all and me I may well revisit this.
On an up note my secondhand pump has turned up and seems in really good overall condition spins freely and no movement in any direction. So I can see about removing the failed one, and installing it hopefully this will keep things going for a while.
Always good for another pair of eyes to look at these things. I was so concentrated on the dimensions. I missed the description and fact that it was a linear version
Thanks for pointing out the error of my ways.As the exact OD has as yet eluded me I was also trying to find a bearing that was at the very least undersize, as opposed to oversize as the casting would probably not take any if much machining oversize.
Yes it is also a tad under in length as well.
I notice that the make is KG which appears to be an Indian company linked here:
https://www.kginternational.com/water-pump-bearing...
Yes, presses are a little expensive for the probability of so little use. There is plenty of info on the Interweb on homemade bottle jack presses, something else I was looking at as well.
When things pick up for us all and me I may well revisit this.
On an up note my secondhand pump has turned up and seems in really good overall condition spins freely and no movement in any direction. So I can see about removing the failed one, and installing it hopefully this will keep things going for a while.
Hi Adam,
Good spot for the Alibaba many links. I have looked at a fair few and lots could to fit the bill. However, with the postage it pushes the price to over £15, I have never had it but import duty may well be payable as well, if you are the unlucky one.
Unless I am wrong the original linked information from Enigmas shows 2 bearing lengths in the first picture (lower Image) the bearing is quoted 2-1/4". The second picture (further down in the thread) shows 1-1/4" both classed as SD1 shaft bearings.
Which one is in the water pump to be repaired? It would need to be disassembled to determine this I guess.
I have also just noticed that Simply Bearings do not now seem to list the water pump bearing anymore
.
This said it is in the clearance section so I assume soon to be obsolete.
Good spot for the Alibaba many links. I have looked at a fair few and lots could to fit the bill. However, with the postage it pushes the price to over £15, I have never had it but import duty may well be payable as well, if you are the unlucky one.
Unless I am wrong the original linked information from Enigmas shows 2 bearing lengths in the first picture (lower Image) the bearing is quoted 2-1/4". The second picture (further down in the thread) shows 1-1/4" both classed as SD1 shaft bearings.
Which one is in the water pump to be repaired? It would need to be disassembled to determine this I guess.
I have also just noticed that Simply Bearings do not now seem to list the water pump bearing anymore
. This said it is in the clearance section so I assume soon to be obsolete.
Adam, seems like you have most of the info to hand now.
What a pig it was to remove my pump (now off). It took an age.
4 of the bolts were Allen key heads (not the first ones used in the engine somewhere) and appear to be uncoated, so were rusted I had fears of breaking the bolt or rounding the hex. It seems that whoever built the engine just grabbed whatever was to hand. I have to keep making special tools to remove things. All of the hex head normal bolts removed without issue apart from the 2 nearest the alternator (seem far too long for the purpose), and not rusted at all.
The old pump appeared to be weeping out of the front and has some play. I guess it was a matter of time before it failed completely.
Now to cut the snout off the replacement pump and install. Getting there slowly no real rush as the car is not in use until it warms up.
Would you know offhand what bolts may need sealing against potential water seepage?
What a pig it was to remove my pump (now off). It took an age.
4 of the bolts were Allen key heads (not the first ones used in the engine somewhere) and appear to be uncoated, so were rusted I had fears of breaking the bolt or rounding the hex. It seems that whoever built the engine just grabbed whatever was to hand. I have to keep making special tools to remove things. All of the hex head normal bolts removed without issue apart from the 2 nearest the alternator (seem far too long for the purpose), and not rusted at all.
The old pump appeared to be weeping out of the front and has some play. I guess it was a matter of time before it failed completely.
Now to cut the snout off the replacement pump and install. Getting there slowly no real rush as the car is not in use until it warms up.
Would you know offhand what bolts may need sealing against potential water seepage?
I think I mentioned before that V8's are a new beast to me, so learning on the job as they say.
I do have copaslip. I also have Aluminium Anti-Seize Compound, that appears to have a similar temperature range (alternative to Optimoly TA / Never Seez compound). It is a toss up between the 2.
Deffo not M8. I was under the impression that the threads were old English sizes.
1/4" - 20 UNC - 5 off @ 1.1/8" long
5/16" - 18 UNC - 3 off @ 4.3/4" long + 1 off @ 5.1/2" long
Although one of the longer bolts has been swapped for a stud and nut (one that holds the PS bracket to the block). this also appears to have wept water as it was tight to undo and appears rusty.
I do have copaslip. I also have Aluminium Anti-Seize Compound, that appears to have a similar temperature range (alternative to Optimoly TA / Never Seez compound). It is a toss up between the 2.
Deffo not M8. I was under the impression that the threads were old English sizes.
1/4" - 20 UNC - 5 off @ 1.1/8" long
5/16" - 18 UNC - 3 off @ 4.3/4" long + 1 off @ 5.1/2" long
Although one of the longer bolts has been swapped for a stud and nut (one that holds the PS bracket to the block). this also appears to have wept water as it was tight to undo and appears rusty.
Edited by BlueWedgy on Friday 19th February 08:31
Thanks Adam.
Sounds like you have drummed up some business on the bearings and seals.
I did intend to use some sealant along with the gasket. I have 5 new proper hex head bolts (instead of the Allen key ones) on order so will reinstall the pump next week when they turn up.
Fingers crossed, that will be manifold and joints seen to and the water pump. Then onto the other batch of to-do's. Prior to an MOT in April. Hopefully, I can then have some Spring / Summer driving without my nose stuck either under the bonnet or the jacked-up car.
Sounds like you have drummed up some business on the bearings and seals.
I did intend to use some sealant along with the gasket. I have 5 new proper hex head bolts (instead of the Allen key ones) on order so will reinstall the pump next week when they turn up.
Fingers crossed, that will be manifold and joints seen to and the water pump. Then onto the other batch of to-do's. Prior to an MOT in April. Hopefully, I can then have some Spring / Summer driving without my nose stuck either under the bonnet or the jacked-up car.
Well, nothing is as it seems in the world of SD1 water pumps.
The water pump I procured is the same design as the second pump in the Enigmas post.
After cutting the threaded section off and some welding all was good, or was it?....
I bolted up the pump with little thought, went to put on the pulleys, huh the pump is stuck fast, reverse the process and remove the pump...more time wasted.
Bit of head-scratching and comparison of the 2 pumps. The net result was the impeller was 1mm more proud on the replacement pump than the original pump and failing on the inner surface of the front cover, a bit of fettling and the pump now spins when in situ, just hope I was not too heavy with the fettling.
This just leaves the PS to connect and fill the system with water and start to see if all this effort works or not.
Won't be overly surprised if not, or pleasantly surprised if all is good...kinda glass half full moment
I have made a real meal of this and spent probably double the amount of time I should have. Lucky I have a bit of time on my hands at the moment.
Update
Well started the car all was good for a bit then it dumped water on the garage floor, I guess a duff pump, oh hum save up some pennies and buy a new one.
The water pump I procured is the same design as the second pump in the Enigmas post.
After cutting the threaded section off and some welding all was good, or was it?....
I bolted up the pump with little thought, went to put on the pulleys, huh the pump is stuck fast, reverse the process and remove the pump...more time wasted.
Bit of head-scratching and comparison of the 2 pumps. The net result was the impeller was 1mm more proud on the replacement pump than the original pump and failing on the inner surface of the front cover, a bit of fettling and the pump now spins when in situ, just hope I was not too heavy with the fettling.
This just leaves the PS to connect and fill the system with water and start to see if all this effort works or not.
Won't be overly surprised if not, or pleasantly surprised if all is good...kinda glass half full moment
I have made a real meal of this and spent probably double the amount of time I should have. Lucky I have a bit of time on my hands at the moment.
Update
Well started the car all was good for a bit then it dumped water on the garage floor, I guess a duff pump, oh hum save up some pennies and buy a new one.
Edited by BlueWedgy on Thursday 25th February 07:26
Edited by BlueWedgy on Thursday 25th February 11:40
Yes, it was second user. It looked clean enough. No evidence of stains or having been cleaned. Always a gamble, of course, funds were limited so I took the gamble sometimes all is good other times not so as In my case.
If when I get a job I will buy a new one, at least the bolts will be easy to remove now that they are all hex hd, and have liberal amounts of anti seize, rather than those soppy Allen bolts.
The upside is it sounded (even with a leak) a whole bunch better than the old pump.
Any movement on the seals and bearings?
If when I get a job I will buy a new one, at least the bolts will be easy to remove now that they are all hex hd, and have liberal amounts of anti seize, rather than those soppy Allen bolts.
The upside is it sounded (even with a leak) a whole bunch better than the old pump.
Any movement on the seals and bearings?
I wonder if someone has been reading this thread 
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rover-v8-water-pump-fro...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rover-v8-water-pump-fro...
Not me just collecting them as I go along 
Just a thought I was wondering if this pump will work It's a TR8 version.
https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-GWP204
I notice that the gasket is slightly different from this.
By the way Adam I came across this whilst hunting out a pump, I have no idea of the dims though?
https://www.dingocroft.co.uk/acatalog/Repair-kit-f...
Ray
Just a thought I was wondering if this pump will work It's a TR8 version.
https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-GWP204
I notice that the gasket is slightly different from this.
By the way Adam I came across this whilst hunting out a pump, I have no idea of the dims though?
https://www.dingocroft.co.uk/acatalog/Repair-kit-f...
Ray
Edited by BlueWedgy on Saturday 27th February 15:56
Hi Adam,
Thanks yes had seen that, think it may be best to go new at some point. Don't want to be collecting more for possible refurb. However, I have been reading that new non OEM pumps have been failing via the weep hole very soon after fitting.
Oh thanks for nod on the email thingy, hopefully, I have corrected that just a tick box not ticked.
Looks like Robsport may be the place to go once restrictions are lifted.
Thanks yes had seen that, think it may be best to go new at some point. Don't want to be collecting more for possible refurb. However, I have been reading that new non OEM pumps have been failing via the weep hole very soon after fitting.
Oh thanks for nod on the email thingy, hopefully, I have corrected that just a tick box not ticked.
Looks like Robsport may be the place to go once restrictions are lifted.
Edited by BlueWedgy on Saturday 13th March 07:49
I thought I would follow this up......
I have now purchased and installed a GWP204 TR8 water pump and all is good for the time being. It is a Powertune version, this seems to be the only make of pumps around now. I have however read that these have been failing prematurely through the weep hole, I guess time will tell.
I went to Robsport in Royston for the pump, the price came in at £94.95 Inclusive complete with a new gasket. This is cheaper than Rimmer Bros TR8 version.
They are also a lot lot cheaper than GWP2149, which as far as I could tell should be a direct replacement (that is the same design as the original).
Hopefully, Adam may be able to get to a point of failed pump refurb kits.
I have now purchased and installed a GWP204 TR8 water pump and all is good for the time being. It is a Powertune version, this seems to be the only make of pumps around now. I have however read that these have been failing prematurely through the weep hole, I guess time will tell.
I went to Robsport in Royston for the pump, the price came in at £94.95 Inclusive complete with a new gasket. This is cheaper than Rimmer Bros TR8 version.
They are also a lot lot cheaper than GWP2149, which as far as I could tell should be a direct replacement (that is the same design as the original).
Hopefully, Adam may be able to get to a point of failed pump refurb kits.
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