Discussion
As the title really.
I lay the car up in the winter months, but do try to start it on a regular basis.
Recently 350i has started to run rough from the odd bank of cylinders and smoke fairly bad, smelling of very strong exhaust fumes.
I have checked the compression engine cold, all cylinders are within 10% of each other.
Spark all round and strong.
New spark plugs.
The injector plugs seem to fire an LED ok.
I am wondering if the E fuel has made an ejector go bad, or just a bad injector or 2 in general.
Or is it possible the head gasket could have gone, I understand that this side had some head work previously some years ago, due to a hose coming adrift and overheating.
Just my luck It always seems to be the hard-to-access side of the engine that has issues.
Does anyone have any spare injectors?
Regards
I lay the car up in the winter months, but do try to start it on a regular basis.
Recently 350i has started to run rough from the odd bank of cylinders and smoke fairly bad, smelling of very strong exhaust fumes.
I have checked the compression engine cold, all cylinders are within 10% of each other.
Spark all round and strong.
New spark plugs.
The injector plugs seem to fire an LED ok.
I am wondering if the E fuel has made an ejector go bad, or just a bad injector or 2 in general.
Or is it possible the head gasket could have gone, I understand that this side had some head work previously some years ago, due to a hose coming adrift and overheating.
Just my luck It always seems to be the hard-to-access side of the engine that has issues.
Does anyone have any spare injectors?
Regards
Hi Adam / Rob,
I bridged the connector with a 200ish ohm resistor, which did make a small amount of difference, to the smoke, but the misfire still seems to be there. I did not run the car for long, as it was late evening as you know these things are not of the silent type
.
I measured the current CTS in situ when cold and it read around 3200 ohms, there was a change in resistance for the time I ran the car, down to 1300 ohms, but I did not run it to full warmth at this point, so not sure if it will run all the way down to warm idle resistance reading. I see no reason why not though.
Adam, I assume from this very old thread that the sensor mentioned (and shown in the Wedge Part Numbers) is the correct type? I can buy one of these for not a lot, so will just go and get one in any case I think.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Still heading towards a sticky or broken Injector
I have based my initial reading off of this.
Cheers Ray
I bridged the connector with a 200ish ohm resistor, which did make a small amount of difference, to the smoke, but the misfire still seems to be there. I did not run the car for long, as it was late evening as you know these things are not of the silent type
. I measured the current CTS in situ when cold and it read around 3200 ohms, there was a change in resistance for the time I ran the car, down to 1300 ohms, but I did not run it to full warmth at this point, so not sure if it will run all the way down to warm idle resistance reading. I see no reason why not though.
Adam, I assume from this very old thread that the sensor mentioned (and shown in the Wedge Part Numbers) is the correct type? I can buy one of these for not a lot, so will just go and get one in any case I think.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Still heading towards a sticky or broken Injector
I have based my initial reading off of this.
Cheers Ray
I came across this.
https://robisonservice.blogspot.com/2014/02/blown-...
Is this a common fault of the Rover engine?
I am almost at a point of stripping the head off. I know from the previous owner that this head had an issue after a hose blew.
Being the head under the Plenum I know that it is going to be a mission, my enthusiasm for this car is not at it's highest, I am spending more time with it apart than driving it, which is kinda defeating the point of having it.
I do want to look at the cam, but that's another mission should it be toast.
I also have a tappety sound so was looking at replacing the bank of lifters, if the cam proves OK.
Sounds like I have convinced myself to dive in.....
https://robisonservice.blogspot.com/2014/02/blown-...
Is this a common fault of the Rover engine?
I am almost at a point of stripping the head off. I know from the previous owner that this head had an issue after a hose blew.
Being the head under the Plenum I know that it is going to be a mission, my enthusiasm for this car is not at it's highest, I am spending more time with it apart than driving it, which is kinda defeating the point of having it.
I do want to look at the cam, but that's another mission should it be toast.
I also have a tappety sound so was looking at replacing the bank of lifters, if the cam proves OK.
Sounds like I have convinced myself to dive in.....
The ECU is working fine, The injectors are firing, I can hear them and used an LED to check. it is a single cylinder misfire not a whole bank, as the ECU fires all even and all odd. The spark plugs are new and I have a lead tester, so electrically all is good.
It seems to be the second cylinder in from the bulkhead on the passenger side. The manifold feels cool on that cylinder.
I re-flowed the ECU a few years back when the same bank stopped working this cured the problem, at that point.
With a full bank out the car will hardly drive, currently, it will drive, but there is definitely a missing cylinder?
It seems to be the second cylinder in from the bulkhead on the passenger side. The manifold feels cool on that cylinder.
I re-flowed the ECU a few years back when the same bank stopped working this cured the problem, at that point.
With a full bank out the car will hardly drive, currently, it will drive, but there is definitely a missing cylinder?
Thanks for the reply. I just removed the plenum and rocker cover, (both very clean inside) to see if rocker arm moves the valves. I figured if the cam was shot then there would be little or no movement, I will stick a dti on to see if the movement is consistent across inlet and exhaust, maybe tomorrow night.
I was going to look at the injectors thanks for mentioning it. I will try to test them, I may also swap for the other side as they appear to be working, that gives me easier access if any are down or need replacing.
I was wondering what the injectors are, I did start to look at it, but being a bit accident-prone of late injuries (self-inflicted) keep getting in the way of doing things.
I was going to look at the injectors thanks for mentioning it. I will try to test them, I may also swap for the other side as they appear to be working, that gives me easier access if any are down or need replacing.
I was wondering what the injectors are, I did start to look at it, but being a bit accident-prone of late injuries (self-inflicted) keep getting in the way of doing things.
Been out this evening, pulling more bits off the engine.
I pulled the passenger rocker cover off a couple of nights back. Now both the rocker covers are off, along with lots of other bits, here's the strange thing. The side that I thought the problem was (the Passenger side bank) shows only clean oil around the rocker shaft and rockers. The drivers side however shows signs of water droplets on around the rocker shafts and rockers.
If there is a problem with water I would expect it to show on both banks.
Am I missing something obvious here?
Cheers
I pulled the passenger rocker cover off a couple of nights back. Now both the rocker covers are off, along with lots of other bits, here's the strange thing. The side that I thought the problem was (the Passenger side bank) shows only clean oil around the rocker shaft and rockers. The drivers side however shows signs of water droplets on around the rocker shafts and rockers.
If there is a problem with water I would expect it to show on both banks.
Am I missing something obvious here?
Cheers
Thanks for the input.
My initial thought was condensation, as I run it at idle during the winter regularly, and tax for the summer (I do say summer loosely) months for use. So yes would expect condensation to be showing in both sides, unless the breather is allowing in moist air? The breather was cleaned about a year and half ago, at the time the cannister showed no signs of water.
I did notice that the bottom of the Plenun at the butterfly end, underneath was damp and shows signs of being poorly filled with some kind of resin. The Plenun is also linked to the rocker breather by way of a pipe, so could have been drawing in cold damp air?
However I haven't looked into the cylinder, I do have a borescope, but I am so far in now that I will probably just remove the heads in any case, as I want to check the hydraulic lifters. If the piston was washed clean, I would expect the spark plug to be the same. I must say that the oil off the dipstick, to me does smell a little fuel-like, as though a cylinder has washed down.
As with all things re-assembly is a bit of an unknown as I think the heads have been skimmed, so head gasket size may be an issue, I will have to measure the deck height (when I find a standard spec measurement) to see how much material has been removed. Standard top-end gasket sets are very cheap, but I assume a standard tin gasket is a no-go after headwork.
The cam seems to be doing cam things on both sides, so seems there are still lobes on that, at least that is one bonus.
I am still a little concerned that the block may be toast? Hiding some form of hidden water jacket crack.
As mentioned enthusiasm is at an all-time low for this car, so work is in the evenings and very sporadic at best. I have worked on lots of 4 pot cars, but not so V8's, However last winter I did replace all lower bearings and clutch with the engine in the car, that was a mission, all seemed good when looking up from underneath.
With hindsight, it would have been easier to have taken the whole engine out, but things seem to happen at a later date causing more work.
My initial thought was condensation, as I run it at idle during the winter regularly, and tax for the summer (I do say summer loosely) months for use. So yes would expect condensation to be showing in both sides, unless the breather is allowing in moist air? The breather was cleaned about a year and half ago, at the time the cannister showed no signs of water.
I did notice that the bottom of the Plenun at the butterfly end, underneath was damp and shows signs of being poorly filled with some kind of resin. The Plenun is also linked to the rocker breather by way of a pipe, so could have been drawing in cold damp air?
However I haven't looked into the cylinder, I do have a borescope, but I am so far in now that I will probably just remove the heads in any case, as I want to check the hydraulic lifters. If the piston was washed clean, I would expect the spark plug to be the same. I must say that the oil off the dipstick, to me does smell a little fuel-like, as though a cylinder has washed down.
As with all things re-assembly is a bit of an unknown as I think the heads have been skimmed, so head gasket size may be an issue, I will have to measure the deck height (when I find a standard spec measurement) to see how much material has been removed. Standard top-end gasket sets are very cheap, but I assume a standard tin gasket is a no-go after headwork.
The cam seems to be doing cam things on both sides, so seems there are still lobes on that, at least that is one bonus.
I am still a little concerned that the block may be toast? Hiding some form of hidden water jacket crack.
As mentioned enthusiasm is at an all-time low for this car, so work is in the evenings and very sporadic at best. I have worked on lots of 4 pot cars, but not so V8's, However last winter I did replace all lower bearings and clutch with the engine in the car, that was a mission, all seemed good when looking up from underneath.
With hindsight, it would have been easier to have taken the whole engine out, but things seem to happen at a later date causing more work.
Hi Guys, many thanks for the inputs, some good pointers and things to look at / consider.
I am halfway through now so will carry on, a bit at a time, when time allows. So far everything looks clean apart from the slight water ingress issue on the drivers bank. The breather is clean and free so is the vent on the passenger bank.
There is so much to take off before I get to the head part. Yet another battle with the manifolds, I have lost count of the amount of times I have had them undone / off. I am also cleaning the bits as I go along. The last person in there looks like they have used Red Hermatite that has failed to cure it is well gunky. That along with the remnants of blue paint flaking is a mission to stop bits falling in where I don't want it.
Once I get to the heads-off bit, I will post back, if there are any findings related to gaskets or other bits.
BTW I am embarrassed to say that the garage is a bit of tip at the mo so more than one person in there would be a squeeze
Cheers
I am halfway through now so will carry on, a bit at a time, when time allows. So far everything looks clean apart from the slight water ingress issue on the drivers bank. The breather is clean and free so is the vent on the passenger bank.
There is so much to take off before I get to the head part. Yet another battle with the manifolds, I have lost count of the amount of times I have had them undone / off. I am also cleaning the bits as I go along. The last person in there looks like they have used Red Hermatite that has failed to cure it is well gunky. That along with the remnants of blue paint flaking is a mission to stop bits falling in where I don't want it.
Once I get to the heads-off bit, I will post back, if there are any findings related to gaskets or other bits.
BTW I am embarrassed to say that the garage is a bit of tip at the mo so more than one person in there would be a squeeze
Cheers
Hi Adam,
Yes that is what I did originally, the canister (internal gauze), pipe and inlet into the Plenum are all clear. Checked again last night whilst cleaning the Rocker covers. The internal baffles were missing a couple of screws, not sure where they have gone, if they were even put in in first instance.
Will crack on with the strip down Saturday for a few hours. Sotly sofly catch the monkey.
Need to replace the myriad of odd style and size bolts and missing washers, as I go.
Top end gasket set on it's way, all systems go...
Yes that is what I did originally, the canister (internal gauze), pipe and inlet into the Plenum are all clear. Checked again last night whilst cleaning the Rocker covers. The internal baffles were missing a couple of screws, not sure where they have gone, if they were even put in in first instance.
Will crack on with the strip down Saturday for a few hours. Sotly sofly catch the monkey.
Need to replace the myriad of odd style and size bolts and missing washers, as I go.
Top end gasket set on it's way, all systems go...
Right complete change of plan, mainly due to the washing machine going wrong with a blocked outlet hose throwing F05 code, now fixed.
Any old how, the heads are staying on for now, the main reason is that flea-bay seller picture for a top gasket set did not match the item sent, but gave me a full refund and I keep the set sent.
The inlet manifold is off as I will continue to look into the tappety side of things.
I will hold my hand up to this. The drivers side cylinder towards the firewall (8) had the little rubber bung the sits inside the plug socket attached, what a complete amateur, so I assume that the plug was not making contact with the lead (perhaps on the odd occasion it did). I never noticed at the time of spark plug change - doh
I have again retested all the injectors with the leads as they sit in the engine. all produced a good similar pattern apart from number 2 that just dumped fuel for fun.
@Wedg1e how easy would it be for you to part with a spare?
Many thanks
Any old how, the heads are staying on for now, the main reason is that flea-bay seller picture for a top gasket set did not match the item sent, but gave me a full refund and I keep the set sent.
The inlet manifold is off as I will continue to look into the tappety side of things.
I will hold my hand up to this. The drivers side cylinder towards the firewall (8) had the little rubber bung the sits inside the plug socket attached, what a complete amateur, so I assume that the plug was not making contact with the lead (perhaps on the odd occasion it did). I never noticed at the time of spark plug change - doh
I have again retested all the injectors with the leads as they sit in the engine. all produced a good similar pattern apart from number 2 that just dumped fuel for fun.
@Wedg1e how easy would it be for you to part with a spare?
Many thanks
Edited by BlueWedgy on Saturday 13th April 17:31
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