Thinking of buying a G4

Thinking of buying a G4

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ninjadave

Original Poster:

2,101 posts

257 months

Tuesday 20th July 2004
quotequote all
Hi,

I was looking into buying a G4 a couple of years ago, from Paul Stephens. I was very impressed with the car, after I fell in love with it completely at the sports car show at the NEC (spring 2002 I guess). The guys at Dare were great, and so was the trip down to Paul a month or so later, and haring throught the Cambridgeshire lanes

However, just before signing on the line I met my wife to be, and I had to shelve the idea

I'm now getting into the position to get one, but I need to know a few things first.

Can you buy them in kit form?

This will be my only car (as my fto will be handed over to my gf [once I've convinced her it's better than her rover 216]). I only drive about 6 miles from my house to the trainstation, so I don't mind that BUT - it will be in a train station car park all day. Do you think it will be ok left like that? Can they have trackers fitted?

I don't have a garage anymore (the things you can put up with for love!), so it MUST be water tight - are they? I know they were shower proof last time I checked. Or would you advise getting the garage built first? (I'd use another garage to build it in if it was a kit)

And - with GT4 coming out soon, and the world media about to realise what an amazing car the G4 is, when do you think the latest I can order one would be, without being put at number 417th on the list

Cheers,

Dave

ninjadave

Original Poster:

2,101 posts

257 months

Wednesday 21st July 2004
quotequote all
Thanks for the comments guys.

I know they have them holes in the side, but other than being fiddly, I thought you could get them to 'lock', and hence keep the water out, at least to splash proof levels?

I spec'ed a removable sterring wheel last time, so I thought I'd try it again. The only problem I have with that is carrying it to and from work on the train and tube And I don't know if I'd try and put the indicators on there - is there really any point? Couldn't it be done with a normal wheel?
I was also thinking of the locking valves - that deflate if you drive off with them activated, but they cause issues with wheel balancing and being fiddly to deactivate in the rain/driving hail/snow/ etc

NOI, but I prefer the G4 - I have no idea why, I just do. Don't get me wrong, I do like the 20, 27 (and the 33), but there's just that little something about the 4 - I think it's becuase it was the first I saw of the series, so it holds a little bigger place in my heart.
I was told of a 27 on eBay lsat night - but it had finished by then - that I would have bought given the chance, as it was going cheap for what it had.

-> I heard that Dare was going to make a 'roadster' version, with a removable hardtop. Did anything come of this?

I'll start asking Dare about these production issues instead.

I don't mind getting the G4 as turnkey (this was what I was doing originally anyhow) - I just thought it'd be nice to build it too.

Looks like I'll need to build the garage first - I'd better start pleading with the council to allow me planning permission for it... or with the misses to move (again...)

ninjadave

Original Poster:

2,101 posts

257 months

Thursday 22nd July 2004
quotequote all
I want the convertable, yes. But I heard rumours a while back - and it was an option on the price list I found last night, for a removable hard top to go with it - that you could buy a G4 as a 'roadster' (basically a convertable, but with a removable hardtop). This is what I was thinking of.

I was thinking of the wedgewood blue with creame interior, as this was the one I saw, and the one I test drove. However, Paul has a nice looking bronze one at the mo:

Not really my cup'o'char, but it's spec'ed out well, and I may be persuaded - if the windows and windscreen frame were fully there.

I think my biggest hurdle now is keeping it under cover... I have lost my beloved garage since moving down to Wiltshire, and even if I built a garage or a carport, I'd still need to put it under a cover at the train station Maybe the guys there will love the car so much I could park it on the spare platform

RE the button indicators - I'm pretty sure the one I tested had indicators on the stalks, but I could easily be mistaken...?

>> Edited by ninjadave on Thursday 22 July 15:17

ninjadave

Original Poster:

2,101 posts

257 months

Friday 23rd July 2004
quotequote all
Ah, right!

I would have only wanted a hard top on or nothing anyhow. I would have stick the soft top in the boot when the roof was off JIC. However, the soft-top frame didn't quite fit into the boot (on the one at the show, the others may do?) it wouldn't be that helpful if I got caught short anywhere.

I know the bodies of G4s don't really add anything extra to the cassis, but I expect the body would be able to resist cornering torque a bit more with the windscreen incased in GRP? Or be untoicable

Reading your review has increased my need for this car... although I'm still stuck with the issue of storage and parking in bad weather
At least this is just a finer deatil

>> Edited by ninjadave on Monday 14th March 12:49

ninjadave

Original Poster:

2,101 posts

257 months

Thursday 12th August 2004
quotequote all
Hello again!

I'm looking into ways of making the G4 more weather proof, with the removalbe hard top.

The main issue seems to be the holes in the perspex windows not keeping modest rain out. The rest of it seems ok (from what I've heard, and seen).

To this end, I want a solid perspex side window.
This obviously leads to issues getting into the car.
SVA means it'll have to have the immobiliser fitted; I'll make sure it is a remote operated one, with extra trigger lines (usually used for central locking). The trigger will activate a modified central locking unit on the driver's side door, which will raise the latch, and effectivly open the door. As a manual override, I'd use a bonnet realise mechinism on the passenger door, hooked up inside the boot (meaning only one mechinism per door unit).

Three issues with this that I can see are:
1 - will the lack of the hole mean the pressure difference at high speed pull the window off the car

2 - The driver's door will open when I have to re-deactivate the immobiliser as I've taken too long starting her up.

3 - The doors take more than just an open latch to open, and will stay closed, unless something forces them out slightly too.

I'm waiting on a reply from Dare as to the first issue, but I expect they're pretty busy with the new car, so I'm not holding my breath fo an answer soon.

Could anybody here offer any advise, especially if it's along the lines of: "Are you a damn fool, boy?"

Cheers,

Dave

>> Edited by ninjadave on Thursday 12th August 12:51

ninjadave

Original Poster:

2,101 posts

257 months

Thursday 12th August 2004
quotequote all
Thanks Graham

I'll have a look into it. I never thought of the remote boot option (mainly I think as I've never had a car with it on).
I'll research this a bit more now I have somewhere to look, and at least the slight feeling of sanity about it all

>> Edited by ninjadave on Friday 13th August 09:44

ninjadave

Original Poster:

2,101 posts

257 months

Thursday 2nd September 2004
quotequote all
Tim,

Thanks for the info.

I'm quite happy to take the car for what it is - that's pretty much the main reason I want to buy it! IT's rare, beautiful, and has the best feedback of anything I've driven, including the Noble M12 (sorry, had to squeeze that in somewhere ).

When you say don't let much water in - how much is that? Really? I'm not going to not buy one if it's just a small amount of fine mist, but if it's almost like raining outside, inside, then I'll have to carry on thinking of a way to make it more water tight. Though, as you say, the cockpit needs ventalation.
Another big issue I have with having to reach in to open the door is in that hard, driving, wet to the bone type rain. When I'm reaching in, getting angery with myself for not being able top open the damn door faster, water will be pouring in off my arm. And in my frustration, I may just catch the window a little too hard, and make it pop off the door This may just be in my head, but it's there, it's making me worry

The remote boot unlocker would have been used on the drivers door, as the solid windows wouldn't have let me open the door. A manual override would be to open the boot and pull a latch to open the passenger door. So it would have acted as central locking. I know it doesn't really go with the concept of the G4, but if I had solid windows, I'd need to get in somehow.

Whilst these are just minor irritations with the car, and aren't putting me off, I can see I'd get a little annoyed in the winter months.

Also, as a Dare G4 owner, have you ever driven it in the snow? I expect it'd be capable in the wet, but I'm wondering about the light weight-high power combo in slippy snow? I won't have the luxury of not going to work if the weather's bad (unless it's the wrong type of snow for the trains )

Thanks again!

Dave

ninjadave

Original Poster:

2,101 posts

257 months

Friday 3rd September 2004
quotequote all
But that's the most exciting part of owning a car like a G4 - extreame condition driving Also this would be my only car, so I'd have to - and clean it every day - in the freezing conditions.... hmmm I do see a problem here...

ninjadave

Original Poster:

2,101 posts

257 months

Monday 6th September 2004
quotequote all
Maybe I could get a motor bike for the bad weather?

So far I'm still not sure about the solid windows being pulled off the car at higher speeds, but at least I think it may be a little more water tight with the holes in than I first thought- I wonder if Paul would let me take his demo G4 through a car wash to check?

I'll just have to go down in the deepest winter months for a test drive to see for sure.

ninjadave

Original Poster:

2,101 posts

257 months

Friday 22nd October 2004
quotequote all
Well, after a lot of heart searching, I've decided not to get a G4 just now. I'd only be able to keep it as a main car, so until I have the room to keep it as a spare/weekend/race car, I'll have to put the dream in a pipe.

Thanks for your advice, and when I do come to get one (soon as I can convince the misses we need to move somewhere with more room ) I'll be getting one, and back on here asking lots of stupid questions about how to get my racing licences, and where to buy fire suits.

Thanks again guys, hope to speak again soon!

ninjadave

Original Poster:

2,101 posts

257 months

Monday 14th March 2005
quotequote all
Hopefull I'll be popping over to Paul Stephens either this weekend or next.
Hopefull the crap weather will be around so I ca see what the cars are really like in the wet (I never thought I'd be saying that!).

If all goes well, I'll be putting my order for one in. I'll get it now, and plan to move in a year or so to somewhere with a garage, and is a bit nearer work so I don't shell out massive amounts on train fares every year.

Can anybody point me to an insurer? I tried Footman James, they came back with a quote just shy of 4 grand

It will be used everyday.
It will be left in the train station car park.
It will be outside 29 nights in every 30.
It will be hated by the misses.
It will be a god in my eyes.

ninjadave

Original Poster:

2,101 posts

257 months

Monday 14th March 2005
quotequote all
That was very good!

But I don't think it is anymore, no. I may call up FJ and ask what details they had on me, as that seems mad. I'll be 25+ when it arrives, with 4+ years NCB. When I was 22 with 1 year NCB they gave me a quote of about 1.2k fully comp. Now I'm almost 3 years older, with the extra NCB, and it's over 3 times as much. Yes I have an SP60 from a couple of years ago, but that's not worth THAT much is it?

ninjadave

Original Poster:

2,101 posts

257 months

Friday 1st April 2005
quotequote all
STILL waiting on a quote to come throught from Graham Sykes

I'm off to Paul Stephens tomorrow to look at a G4 in the wet - thought I now hear it will be dry tomorrow - and do a direct comparison to a lotus elise, possibly a Marcos Mantaray, hopefully a Noble M12 GTO 3R. I may also have a look at the G20 they currently have - they just sold the black G33 though I'll try and do a write up, but I'm no journalist - and post it, if anybody cares? I forgot the cameras though, so I'll only have low res camera phone pictures to offer

>> Edited by ninjadave on Monday 4th April 12:41

ninjadave

Original Poster:

2,101 posts

257 months

Monday 4th April 2005
quotequote all
I was hoping that the weather lady had got it wrong again. That Saturday was going to bring rain like we haven't seen on this small isle since it was tropical. Opening the curtains in anticipation showed me a clear blue sky, and a sun shining more than a hotel full of ghosts and insane writers.

I should have taken this as an omen of the day ahead, but alas, I jumped in my car to head on down to Essex with optimism up to my eyes. After a couple of hours flying through dual carriage way hell, I arrive at Paul Stephen's garage eager and ready to play with some very nice cars. After walking in, I realise that they have no idea who I am, or that I was even meant to be there. This was a little disappointing, as I had spoken to the garage only the day before to arrange the test drives.

After this initial confusion they rolled out the 1.8 Zetec G4, running about 130 bhp. Whilst this wasn't the car I was after, it would at least give me a sense of the cars abilities, build quality, and if I could fit my increased lardiness inside.

After trying to strap myself into the 4 point harness on the passenger side, I realised that I was simply too small for it to fit. Apparently the previous owner was a little on the large side, and had the harnesses changed to fit him. I decided that a little loose was better than not being able to play, and we headed out.

The exhaust sounded terrific! Much better than I had expected after getting used to my pretty loud V6 howl. The ride was firm, but not harsh and felt planted. In fact it took going around a small round about twice and exiting at 65mph to start the car sliding.

Road noise wasn’t as much as I had anticipated. Buffeting from the wind was bearable, but would make long journeys hard. A cacophony of rattles accompanied the wobbly dials and road noise, but the soft top roof was in the boot, so I put all this to one side, and after a couple of miles, we pulled over, switched, and I drove off.

The first thing I noticed was the sheer lack of space around the pedals. I had a hard time breaking, as my clutch foot blocked access to the break pedal. Couple this with the heel of my left show getting stuck in front of the mat, meant it wasn’t the easiest car to jump in and drive. Perhaps I could change the setup to make it easier all round, I would look later. The clutch was heavy, but very responsive. Trying to get the power down in 1st generally meant switching into 2nd or just wheel spinning. However the acceleration wasn’t mind blowing and whilst it only weighed in at a piffling 650kilos, the car felt heavier than my 1.2 tonne FTO. This may have just been down to the lack of power steering, so I pressed on to higher speeds to see if it would lighten up. Once it was up to 80-100 it flowed very well; roundabouts didn’t pose any threat to the grip nor did any sharp bends.

Being so low made all the small things seem pretty big: Some paper bag rubbish from a famous Scottish clown had blown onto the road, looking like an APC mine that had to be avoided at all costs.

Once we got back to the garage, and off the private road, I had a proper look at the car. This is where things start to get worse. The car was registered in 2002, and had just turned 3. It had barely covered 8,000 miles in that time, living pretty much constantly in a garage or lockup. And yet it was looking decidedly beat up. Chrome was loosing its shine with pock marks is something I can forgive and put down to bad choice of materials. Exposed nuts and bolts keeping the windows in place going rusty and affecting the GRP body is not. The angle chorus was told their services were no longer needed whenever I looked at the car. The paint was chipping off, and the engine was becoming a large block of rust; something more care may have prevented I know. Inside the car didn’t fare much better, with loose wiring and interior fitment I started removing the pedestal I had mentally put the car on. This got me thinking about the interior space and not being able to fit my feet in, no matter what I did with the setup. Finally, the spot lights came down, and I had packed up my metaphorical G4 road show to head on home.

All of the things I saw wrong with the car, I could have lived with, and would, in a mall way, have expected with a G20, G27, or a G33. However, this was meant to be a car built to a high standard, by the brothers who started the legacy in a factory dedicated to the process, not a kit car built by an enthusiast, in their garage, trying to come in under a tight budget.

The aim of the trip had just been to test out the water-tightness and handling in the wet of a G4. The outcome had been to dispel my illusions about the sheer quality of the G4 making them worth all those extra pennies.
If the extra effort had been put into making this car to the standard of the ones I’ve seen in the shows with a better choice of materials, then the G4 would be worth every penny of the price tag, unfortunately this car just showed me they aren’t.

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/devilwars/G4/HPIM0156.JPG
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/devilwars/G4/HPIM0157.JPG
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/devilwars/G4/HPIM0158.JPG
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/devilwars/G4/HPIM0159.JPG
Edited to link to photos

>> Edited by ninjadave on Monday 4th April 15:50