1.0 Ecoboost Remaps ?
Discussion
After a bit of a disaster with a Mini Cooper S we have played safe and bought a nearly new Fiesta Ecoboost with a mighty 100 bhp, basically the 100 and 125 are the same engine and can be remapped to the same amount of power, which seems to be quoted between 140 and 160 bhp creating a warm hatch from a boggo spec Fiesta.
So, anyone had it done ? pick the car up Monday and will run it a few days until we have located somewhere suitable and get it mapped, as standard its ok but a little more power wouldnt go amiss.
Should be fairly respectable with 150 ish bhp, just looking for suggestions of where to go, budget is £300 - £400
So, anyone had it done ? pick the car up Monday and will run it a few days until we have located somewhere suitable and get it mapped, as standard its ok but a little more power wouldnt go amiss.
Should be fairly respectable with 150 ish bhp, just looking for suggestions of where to go, budget is £300 - £400
Dan Friel said:
SimonD said:
I don't believe the 100 and 125bhp models are the same.
Mountune's own site suggests that their own 135 upgrade can be applied to the 125bhp model only:
Mountune
Correct, there is no Mountune map for the 100bhp engine (and therefore no warranty friendly map for that engine spec). Mountune's own site suggests that their own 135 upgrade can be applied to the 125bhp model only:
Mountune
The car is second hand, a year old with 11k miles, picked it up tonight and took it for a spin and I have to say, its way better than I expected, it manages to feel pretty quick for a 100 bhp car, a decent level of shove, not sure it needs a remap, it is perfectly adequate for its intended use. Might wait a while until the novelty wears off, then get it done.
I am not sure what the differences are between the 100 and 125 version but everyone other than Mountune routinely maps them to 140 or more bhp, I would guess that the engines are exactly the same internally and if there is a difference it is the turbo, I would love to see what that difference is.
Most Superminis used to be miserable, soul sapping experiences but I really quite like this.
Have ordered the bluefin unit to remap the car which should arrive tomorrow and will report back, apparently will give 140 bump and 180 lb/ft of torque in a car weighing 1065 kilos or thereabouts, sounds on a par in terms of power to weight similar to a mk2 Golf gti sixteen valve so should be decently quick, I reckon abou 8.5 to sixty so an old school hot hatch kind of performance.
W
Ford are plonking this engine in just about everything, they build one unit and then software tune it, so the 100 is a downgraded 125/140, the other models aren't any different internally and the only anecdotal evidence i have heard of differences I heard of are the turbos being made of different stuff which was based on a different part number.
I'f we "blow it up" then I will source a second hand unit from a breakers and crack out the spanners and fit it, about 800 quid to a grand plus my time.
Insurance will be adjusted accordingly, we enquired about the remap when we bought the car and they gave us a price and made a note on the file, was quite reasonable.
It will, most of the time not be hammered mercilessly, just normal use by my wife so should be fine, if not, deal with it like I have done in the past when I have broken a car.
I would love to know the actual "differences", can't imagine Ford bother with different gearboxes, the rods, crank etc will be the same as there won't be any point in spending them differently, the increase is forty percent but from the downgraded version, it's about 12 percent increase from the 125 and Ford do a 140 bhp version anyway.
GTIAlex said:
Even the Ford dealer I bought my 1.0 from told me not to bluefin tune it as his son had done so and blown it up a week later,
There are differences between the engines, not just different maps.
The 140 Red/Black editions have a number of different upgrades including to the transmissions.
Hope your going to tell your insurance company as well.
Yeah because the Ford dealer doesn't have any vested interest of course ?There are differences between the engines, not just different maps.
The 140 Red/Black editions have a number of different upgrades including to the transmissions.
Hope your going to tell your insurance company as well.
Ford are plonking this engine in just about everything, they build one unit and then software tune it, so the 100 is a downgraded 125/140, the other models aren't any different internally and the only anecdotal evidence i have heard of differences I heard of are the turbos being made of different stuff which was based on a different part number.
I'f we "blow it up" then I will source a second hand unit from a breakers and crack out the spanners and fit it, about 800 quid to a grand plus my time.
Insurance will be adjusted accordingly, we enquired about the remap when we bought the car and they gave us a price and made a note on the file, was quite reasonable.
It will, most of the time not be hammered mercilessly, just normal use by my wife so should be fine, if not, deal with it like I have done in the past when I have broken a car.
I would love to know the actual "differences", can't imagine Ford bother with different gearboxes, the rods, crank etc will be the same as there won't be any point in spending them differently, the increase is forty percent but from the downgraded version, it's about 12 percent increase from the 125 and Ford do a 140 bhp version anyway.
Edited by J4CKO on Monday 10th August 23:18
Cheers Buff, it just feels pegged back, have remapped cars before with no issues, I will provide a report and updates as we go so others can decide if it's so worth doing, could be a disaster or might be a rather reasonable warm hatch, main thing is she has a bit more grunt to play with as sometimes it is a bit borderline, hills with four people in for example
Well, got it installed and what a transformation !
Its gone from useful but a bit tame to feeling pretty quick, even my wife who is not normally impressed by such things can tell its made a big difference.
Easy enough to install, only added complication was having to remove the unit once it had downloaded the original ecu code and then install some pc software and upload it from the unit to Superchips as I suspect there may be revisions of the map or different versions of the engine and they need to check, email came back straight away with a download link which uploads to the handheld and then I plugged it back in the car, ten minutes later it said it was done.
I would say its in the eight and a bit to sixty bracket, Fords own 140 bhp version does it in nine but this map apparently gives it more torque. Not going to be hunting down GTR's but it feels like it could give a few other cars a bit of a shock, sort of a minor sleeper/Q car thing thing going on as there is no sporty anything on it to give the game away that it isnt the usual 60/70 bhp.
Recommended !
Its gone from useful but a bit tame to feeling pretty quick, even my wife who is not normally impressed by such things can tell its made a big difference.
Easy enough to install, only added complication was having to remove the unit once it had downloaded the original ecu code and then install some pc software and upload it from the unit to Superchips as I suspect there may be revisions of the map or different versions of the engine and they need to check, email came back straight away with a download link which uploads to the handheld and then I plugged it back in the car, ten minutes later it said it was done.
I would say its in the eight and a bit to sixty bracket, Fords own 140 bhp version does it in nine but this map apparently gives it more torque. Not going to be hunting down GTR's but it feels like it could give a few other cars a bit of a shock, sort of a minor sleeper/Q car thing thing going on as there is no sporty anything on it to give the game away that it isnt the usual 60/70 bhp.
Recommended !
C.A.R. said:
(boring mode on)
Be interesting to see what MPG it now does with the map, could almost render a small diesel hatch irrelevant (which is what I was using to commute in until recently)
(boring mode off)
I bet it feels pretty fruity now?
Being a turbo, would an aftermarket exhaust help free up some more horses / quicker spool up?
Yes, definitely feels fruitier, got to nip into work for an hour (im off this week) so will go in it and have a longer drive in it.Be interesting to see what MPG it now does with the map, could almost render a small diesel hatch irrelevant (which is what I was using to commute in until recently)
(boring mode off)
I bet it feels pretty fruity now?
Being a turbo, would an aftermarket exhaust help free up some more horses / quicker spool up?
Not going to do anything else to it, for £399 its immense value per bhp delivered but after that its the law of diminishing returns.
MPG wise, will be interesting, its my wifes car and she like to have some power available but wont be caning it everywhere, it was doing 42 locally so will see if that dips, but to be honest I am not going to worry too much, wondering if its worth sticking SUL in though ?
Been out for a longer run, I dropped my dad back home and he couldn't believe how quick it was, it gives a really good shove in the back, on the way home a new 120D "M" BMW decided to show me who was boss as well pulled on to the A34 bypass and looked aghast when he appeared to be getting in the way of a basic red Fiesta he expected to drop no problem in his mighty diesel.
More Boost than Eco now though
More Boost than Eco now though
As an update, got the docs sent through for the insurance change, it added the princely sum of £18.17 for the rest of the policy which is another 10 months, they have listed it as an "Engine Management Chip" which isn't strictly correct but it does the same thing, I explained this and they were happy with it, cant do any more.
Been driving it a bit more, hoof it at low revs in second or third, bit of a delay (lag) and then it lunges forward enough that you have to have some space in front of you, bear in mind I drive a 350Z, this still feels quick, thats its party piece, once rolling it isn't quite as vivid but it still can mix it with proper cars at speed. I had to pick my eldest up earlier and gave it a boot and he asked if he could be insured on it instead of the C1, it might be a good next car for him or any younger driver looking for something that handles and has a usable level of poke, has zero VED and can be fairly economical, just not sure how much the remap may affect their premiums compared to us more mature folk. It isnt like its stupidly low geared either, it does over sixty in second.
Apparently, the 140 version (Red/Black) edition goes to nearly 180 bhp and over 200 lb/ft of torque, probably as rapid as a standard ST, perhaps even a bit quicker being that bit lighter.
I was pondering the output, 140 bhp from a 1 litre, its a lot but not that remarkable, the Peugeot RCZ R for example gets 266 bhp from 1.6 litres, 166 bhp/litre and there are loads of small capacity turbo engines making big power from low capacity, it just perhaps seems more of a big deal as its only 1 litre. Its just the way things are going.
Have to add, it doesnt sound super sporty but even the wife noticed that the engine sounded different post remap, I think remaps seem quite benign, its only numbers in a grid but it does mean the engine is working harder, so it will sound different, my Saab sounded weird after its remap, it developed a howl
Been driving it a bit more, hoof it at low revs in second or third, bit of a delay (lag) and then it lunges forward enough that you have to have some space in front of you, bear in mind I drive a 350Z, this still feels quick, thats its party piece, once rolling it isn't quite as vivid but it still can mix it with proper cars at speed. I had to pick my eldest up earlier and gave it a boot and he asked if he could be insured on it instead of the C1, it might be a good next car for him or any younger driver looking for something that handles and has a usable level of poke, has zero VED and can be fairly economical, just not sure how much the remap may affect their premiums compared to us more mature folk. It isnt like its stupidly low geared either, it does over sixty in second.
Apparently, the 140 version (Red/Black) edition goes to nearly 180 bhp and over 200 lb/ft of torque, probably as rapid as a standard ST, perhaps even a bit quicker being that bit lighter.
I was pondering the output, 140 bhp from a 1 litre, its a lot but not that remarkable, the Peugeot RCZ R for example gets 266 bhp from 1.6 litres, 166 bhp/litre and there are loads of small capacity turbo engines making big power from low capacity, it just perhaps seems more of a big deal as its only 1 litre. Its just the way things are going.
Have to add, it doesnt sound super sporty but even the wife noticed that the engine sounded different post remap, I think remaps seem quite benign, its only numbers in a grid but it does mean the engine is working harder, so it will sound different, my Saab sounded weird after its remap, it developed a howl
Edited by J4CKO on Thursday 13th August 16:38
Dan Friel said:
J4CKO said:
Apparently, the 140 version (Red/Black) edition goes to nearly 180 bhp and over 200 lb/ft of torque, probably as rapid as a standard ST, perhaps even a bit quicker being that bit lighter.
Don't forget that the ST goes to 200bhp on overboost, although the Red Edition also gets to c.150bhp in standard form.. Having spoken to a couple of tuning companies, to get real gains on the Red Edition you have to improve flow (induction, exhaust and intercooler), and that makes perfect sense. Drive train is likely to be the weakest link, although completely depends on how you drive it!Edited by J4CKO on Thursday 13th August 16:38
I too will be interested in longevity of the engine and transmission.
GTIAlex said:
There are differences between the 100hp version and the 140 Red Edition, namely to the transmission to cope with the extra power.
To be honest I could never buy an off the shelf chip/map and without getting it checked professionally on a dyno first, why take the risk?
Heres mine anyway
62mpg around town to work and back, and down to around 32mpg around the evo triangle. Great engine and great chassis.
Checked in what way ?To be honest I could never buy an off the shelf chip/map and without getting it checked professionally on a dyno first, why take the risk?
Heres mine anyway
62mpg around town to work and back, and down to around 32mpg around the evo triangle. Great engine and great chassis.
The car is running well and inly has 12,000 miles, the existing map was analysed by Superchips and the appropriate upgrade was sent, it is a standard configuration so not sure why it would need optimising any further on a dyno, ford don't do that when they are new ?
The Red and black editions have revised gear ratios, what else is done to the gearbox ? I can't find any reference to any other changes, am interested in what changes they make as they torque limit them in the lower gears anyway.
They do look rather good the red edition, you need to get the 175 bhp map !
Yeah, am aware it might not be optimised to that specific car but with being new and a known quantity with no other mods it should be fine.
What I meant with "Ford Dont do that" isnt that they dont do any development work, they do years of it, they dont map every individual car differently, standard engines get the exact same map, they dont put each Fiesta on the Dyno before they leave and optimise it, its a commodity item.
I am sure with a talented mapper and some road and dyno time what we have could be improved on but that goes from £399 to something more expensive, and to be honest I can justify the £399 but not any more, at the end of the day its my wifes shopping car, but having an extra 40 percent grunt for that money is a no brainer.
It may break something, but most of the time it isnt at full throttle, its just for when you need it, at the moment its a novelty and I cant stop borrowing it, but it isnt going to distract me from my 350Z for long.
What I meant with "Ford Dont do that" isnt that they dont do any development work, they do years of it, they dont map every individual car differently, standard engines get the exact same map, they dont put each Fiesta on the Dyno before they leave and optimise it, its a commodity item.
I am sure with a talented mapper and some road and dyno time what we have could be improved on but that goes from £399 to something more expensive, and to be honest I can justify the £399 but not any more, at the end of the day its my wifes shopping car, but having an extra 40 percent grunt for that money is a no brainer.
It may break something, but most of the time it isnt at full throttle, its just for when you need it, at the moment its a novelty and I cant stop borrowing it, but it isnt going to distract me from my 350Z for long.
I found this bit of info about the specific turbocharger differences between the 100 and 125 versions,
"The turbine wheel in the 100PS version is made from an alloy called IN713C and the 125PS version is MARM246"
Any Metallurgists/Engineeres (Max Torque you there ?) in who can confirm whether that sounds plausible ?
The 140 (Red/Black) version can be remapped to 177 bhp and 200 lb/ft so there may be some physical difference there as well.
Really interested to get to the bottom of the differences and specific capabilities, early days yet but this unit could make an amazing, compact conversion for other stuff. Wonder what the highest mileage ones have on now and whether, apart from the coolant pipe issue, what other failures there have been, if any ? what will that bottom end take, have heard mention of the ST turbo being fitted.
"The turbine wheel in the 100PS version is made from an alloy called IN713C and the 125PS version is MARM246"
Any Metallurgists/Engineeres (Max Torque you there ?) in who can confirm whether that sounds plausible ?
The 140 (Red/Black) version can be remapped to 177 bhp and 200 lb/ft so there may be some physical difference there as well.
Really interested to get to the bottom of the differences and specific capabilities, early days yet but this unit could make an amazing, compact conversion for other stuff. Wonder what the highest mileage ones have on now and whether, apart from the coolant pipe issue, what other failures there have been, if any ? what will that bottom end take, have heard mention of the ST turbo being fitted.
mike9009 said:
J4CKO said:
I found this bit of info about the specific turbocharger differences between the 100 and 125 versions,
"The turbine wheel in the 100PS version is made from an alloy called IN713C and the 125PS version is MARM246"
Any Metallurgists/Engineeres (Max Torque you there ?) in who can confirm whether that sounds plausible ?
The 140 (Red/Black) version can be remapped to 177 bhp and 200 lb/ft so there may be some physical difference there as well.
Really interested to get to the bottom of the differences and specific capabilities, early days yet but this unit could make an amazing, compact conversion for other stuff. Wonder what the highest mileage ones have on now and whether, apart from the coolant pipe issue, what other failures there have been, if any ? what will that bottom end take, have heard mention of the ST turbo being fitted.
Hi Jacko"The turbine wheel in the 100PS version is made from an alloy called IN713C and the 125PS version is MARM246"
Any Metallurgists/Engineeres (Max Torque you there ?) in who can confirm whether that sounds plausible ?
The 140 (Red/Black) version can be remapped to 177 bhp and 200 lb/ft so there may be some physical difference there as well.
Really interested to get to the bottom of the differences and specific capabilities, early days yet but this unit could make an amazing, compact conversion for other stuff. Wonder what the highest mileage ones have on now and whether, apart from the coolant pipe issue, what other failures there have been, if any ? what will that bottom end take, have heard mention of the ST turbo being fitted.
The quote about the materials is from me (on a Ford website, I believe). I am a metallurgist but also developed the original process for manufacturing this turbine wheel for Continental. This was the first turbo developed by Continental and I believe the design is on the 'safe' side. Both turbine wheels have exactly the same geometry with the only difference being the material used. You can tell the difference by the letter on the nose of the casting.
Mike
its the wifes car and she loves it, she wont have anything "premium" being a bit of an inverted snob, I call her comrade J4CKO with her communist approach to motoring
So a Ford it is, a granny spec Zetec 5 door one I wanted one as much as Gout but she thought it was great, test drove it and she said it didnt quite have enough "oompf" for her so I explained that these could be remapped, ordered it from my sun longer on holiday and it arrived the day after we got back, she tried it and came back grinning, it was good before in a adequate way with 100 bhp but it has made it decently quick, think decent 90s hot hatch kind of poke, kind of a minor sleeper.
Did a drive a few weeks back at night and it is shocking how quickly you can punt it along, it gathers speed well enough and you can carry it through the corners even though the suspension is actually pretty soft, hate to say it but I suspect I would be quicker in this than my CLS, despite it having over two and a half times more power.
Not great on fuel but that is more usage and her penchant for being one gear lower than she should be, I dont mention it as it never ends well.
Telecaster_ said:
Just bumping this rather than starting a new thread.
If the 100/125/140 engines are all the same does it matter which bluefin you use? Why does the 100 bluefin only take it up to 140 when the 140 bluefin takes it to 160 ish?
I suspect that whilst the map may work, there will be checks on data in the ecu to ensure the right map is applied to the correct engine code.If the 100/125/140 engines are all the same does it matter which bluefin you use? Why does the 100 bluefin only take it up to 140 when the 140 bluefin takes it to 160 ish?
The engines do have some differences, well one I am aware of which is the materials used for the turbo.
I would only use the correct map.
Ours is still running fine three years on, we did have an issue passing the mot emissions but an Italian tune up sorted that, had been doing short runs and then I took it the 200 yards to the MOT place from cold, I did remove the map but I really don’t think it was that as it had passed an mot with it on last year.
My wife still loves it and thinks it is plenty fast enough, it was 100 bhp and that wasn’t quite enough, she is t into numbers but the map took it from being less than she wants to enough.
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