Facelift Focus ST - so surprised

[macky17]

Why isn't this car more highly thought of? No, it doesn't have 300 bhp, 4wd or a front diff but the chassis and steering are first class, the engine responsive and flexible and the ride really quite comfortable. It also puts it's power down extremely well in the dry (despite all the journalists tripe to the contrary) and looks great, especially on 19s. I drove one expecting to be underwhelmed and had altogether more fun than I did test driving the RS or the CTR - so much so that I bought it!

I've had many, many cars of all types and this is honestly one of the best I've driven. The only hot hatch (FWD or otherwise) ive ever driven which was better handling was a Renault sport megane and that was uncomfortable too much of the time. Very much a case of less is more. 5 stars from me.

[macky17]

Lighter. More comfortable. More feelsome. Perhaps my RS test drive was too short but fun was not my overriding impression of that car - impressive yes but not fun. The ST is dripping with it.

[macky17]

Type R too harsh, has no playfulness from the rear axle and the throttle response is woeful. Like the RS it's just a little too serious. The new CTR should be entirely different if Honda get it right. If you take speed out of the equation, or at least give it less weight, the ST is better.

[macky17]

All IMHO of course

[macky17]

SevenR said:

I quite fancy a Focus ST3 Estate for my next car next year. I own a Fiesta ST just now and I love it to bits, but it's getting a bit small with my 2 kids getting bigger.
The RS would be great, but if they offered the ST with the 4WD system it would be perfect. I would add the Mountune stage 1 kit and I think I'd be in a very quick very capable practical car that didn't cost a fortune to run.
C'Mon Ford!!! Build it!!!

Why the 4WD though? Unless one lives in Scotland it can't be for snow - there's been one snow day in 2/3 years here in Essex. So you can drive really quickly on a wet road? Why would you want to? I just don't think it's worth the weight penalty just for some unnecessary additional traction. RWD is potentially more fun than properly set up FWD but is 4WD? I remain unconvinced. I speak as someone who's owned 5 Imprezas, a Forester STi, a 996TT and a Nissan GTR - the ST is more fun than any of those despite being pretty much the slowest. Really.

Edited by macky17 on Tuesday 21st February 12:42

[macky17]

I guess I need to drive another RS then. If it really is more fun and not simply quicker then that's quite an achievement.

[macky17]

I've had an rb320 and a WR1 and yes, the ST is more fun. It feels up on its toes, responsive and nimble and its steering is in another league. Not as fast. Doesn't sound as good. Doesn't have the traction. Then again, neither does a mk2 golf gti or an old pug 306 gti and they are more pure fun than any Impreza as well.

Yes, I'm willing to accept I may need further mk3 RS experience. It must be quite a thing. Mk3 ST definitely more fun to drive than a mk2 RS though - I owned one.

Edited by macky17 on Tuesday 21st February 19:34

[macky17]

Paid £18,100 for a 15 reg ST3 in blue with 19s and 9500 miles and it was the best deal within 100 miles of me.

Interesting that EVO magazine say the RS is only fun when you're ragging it and curiously 'inert' when driving at saner speeds. I tend to take notice of their opinions. Sounds to me as though the ST is the more fun daily driver...

[macky17]

Of course EVO also say the ST is 'ragged when pushed' which is true but you need to be at at least 9/10 before it becomes unruly. Again, ST better daily driver - RS better weekend/track car.

[macky17]

Tuvra said:

To me it sounds like you couldn't get the man maths right to justify the RS so continue to reassure yourself that the ST is the better car.

The ST is a great car, I honestly love them, but let's not kid ourselves here

Edited by Tuvra on Wednesday 22 February 19:02

I can promise you that's not the case. I already know I bought the right car for my circumstances and tastes. If the mk3 RS had astonished me on the test drive it would be sat on the drive. It didn't.

As we appear to be making personal speculations now (which I certainly hadnt at any point) allow me to retort: perhaps having never owned a truly entertaining or especially fast car, you are relatively easy to impress with moderate performance and a tricked-up drivetrain. With something in the garage for weekends which makes the RS look clumsy and very, very sluggish, perhaps I can be a little more objective...

Then again, perhaps I'm as far off the mark as you were with the man maths thing.

And yes, a more compliant suspension does generally make for a better daily - most people over 18 would agree.

[macky17]

Tuvra said:

So the RS didn't astonish (your word not mine) you yet the ST did?? Have a day off mate FFS this is getting tragic.

Yes, considering the reviews I'd read and what I had been led to believe, the ST did astonish me. Well done for catching on to the title of this thread and why I started it.

[macky17]

MH82 said:

I can see the logic here. Expectations for the ST were low and they were exceeded. Expectations for the RS were high and they were not met.

Cars are getting so technically competent these days that I can see how an ST can be perceived to be more fun than an RS. The ST limits are lower and more accessible, so those mundane journeys you can get nearer the limit than on the RS. I should imagine that the RS would need to be driven on track to be truly appreciated and if you don't want to go on track then I can see the ST fulfilling the needs and more.

This is exactly what I'm getting at. I've no doubt the RS is more fun at 9/10s + but as a daily the ST possibly does mundane journeys better without needing to boot it out of corners just to wake it up. it feels on its toes all the time.

I am a fanboy it's true... for my Noble. The ST is simply a great daily that surprised me. There are evidently fanboys here though - RS ones.

[macky17]

Covered 600 miles now and enjoying every journey. It seems to me that only a front mechanical lsd separates the ST from greatness. You'd have steering, handling and chassis as good as an RS megane with a better engine and gearbox...

The cost of an MP275 at mountune? Around £1300. The cost of a fully fitted quaife at the same outfit? About £1300. Why anyone with the money to spend would go for the former and merely highlight the shortcomings of the drivetrain ive no idea. The car certainly isn't 25bhp from greatness. Of course both together would be another matter if you have 2.5k to blow.

I think I'll look at the diff later this year. Then I'll go hunting some fat, overweight RSs to pick off on dry B roads.

It's ok, I'm joking! Let's keep this an ST discussion from now on.

[macky17]

Agreed. It's a firm ride but not too harsh.

[macky17]

Lurking Lawyer said:

Ron240 said:

Like I already said if you don't get them you will probably end up regretting it.

That's a personal choice though - it may well be true of you (and others) but it's a bit of a stretch to suggest it's a truism.

I was quite happy with the standard 18s - never considered speccing up the 19s - and didn't regret that at all after picking up the car.

Ride quality must be equally subjective and dependent on what you're used to. I've seen plenty of comments to the effect that the 19s adversely affect the ride. Horses for courses..... :shrug:

You won't find a much fussier person than me when it comes to ride. I found my mk2 RS too hard so put it on Eibachs - it was better but still too hard so I sold it. I found the ride on my Edition 30 GTi too hard so sold it. DC5 integra too hard - sold it. A hard ride gradually wears me down as the weeks pass until I can't stand it any more.

The comfort on a facelift ST with 19s is ok, even for me. The ride is very pressure sensitive - my tyre pressure gauge turned out to be under-reading and I was driving around with 32psi which was too jiggly. A good quality gauge and now I'm running a genuine 30 all round = much, much better. So 19s are fine IMO and look so much better than 18s.

[macky17]

lickatysplit said:

Before forking out for a new diff, may I suggest changing the lower engine mount? it gives the car a tighter feel on launch

Agreed the mk2 RS needed one (comically bad without) and I fitted one to my mp260 as well. The mk3 facelift would probably benefit as well, you're right, but not as much so. Won't help avoid spinning up an inside wheel out of corners though and that's the main issue...

Edited by macky17 on Saturday 15th April 12:35