Ford and swelling wheel nuts

[sohco]

Just though I'd start a thread on this, seems to be a problem on all Fords due to poorly designed nuts made from steel with a chrome cap over the top. A small gap exists between both pieces and water can and is getting in in my case.

I have a Ford Fiesta MK 7 .5 thats only two years old which are displaying this visibly on at least 5 nuts, although I can see damage ( from using an air and not a torque wrench to tighten them up, but more on that later!) and smaller areas of swelling that Furrows of Owestry were unable to spot, although none of this is there fault.

I purchased the car from Evans Halshaw and have ongoing problems with them and Ford regarding servicing, I wont go into detail on that. As a result I took the car for it's first service while in my ownership to Furrows, pointing out the swelling wheel nuts, photos were taken and sent to Ford, although they tried to make out I damaged them or a 3rd party. The helpful chap chased it up non the less with Ford, I received a call back from him saying I could have 5 "new" wheel nuts to replace those they found and he asked if any refurbishment work had been done to the car.

Turns out those wheel nuts are 2nd hand as they have copper grease inside of some of them.

Work has been done by Ford direct, who promise to replace anything including tyres that need replacing prior to selling the car on as it's an ex Ford management car and all tyres have only been removed at Furrows during my time of ownership as required for it's 2nd service. What's concering unless they damaged them I this car as part of the Ford Direct scheme was "independently" inspected by the RAC which would require the removal of tyres to check the breaks over, I can't believe the damage and swelling wasn't spotted during that inspection.

So now I'm here to ask you all, if you've had any problem with Ford wheel nuts? At the minute, Ford themselves are trying very hard to distance themselves from this and the problem with Evans Halshaw and servicing.

Furrows have been very good in all fairness, apart from mking out the wheel nuts were new. I was told the wheel nuts are classed as trim and are only covered for the 1 year of the cars life. I've owned the car from 14 months old until now.

I'll be email Andy Barrat, head of operations in the UK regarding my complaints and would like to point him in the direction of this thread also, so if anyone who's had similar things happen could please share.

Thanks.

[sohco]

Yes, when I purchase something I expect it to be correct, not to have to fork out for damage not done by me. I'd also would like to be able to remove the wheel nuts with out issue, swollen ones would mean being between socket sizes and those 4 black things are the only thing that keep you on the road.

[sohco]

Dave. said:

This happens on discovery 3s a lot.

Not a new thing.

At last a sensible reply, I'm in limbo at the minute as both fronts need changing, but don't want to change anything as I can see Ford trying to wriggle out of it if I do.

At the minute I'm considering whether to get legal advice and force Ford to purchase the car back from me for the price I payed for it as others have done with various manufactures.

[sohco]

FD3Si said:

Right, are they actually swollen, it is it purely cosmetic? Because it sound a little like the latter.
I'm guessing you haven't actually had an issue getting a socket on them?

Yes, if you read the OP I've been given wheel nuts although haven't fitted them to replace the really bad ones. I haven't used a socket on them and if left they will cause an issue.

I'm also an Automotive Engineer so know the the tall tale signs of corrosion and nuts being rounded off from using the wrong tool for the job.

[sohco]

Megaflow said:

Lots of cars have these style of wheel nuts. I wonder if the are designed like this as a safety feature to prevent over torquing.

My second car had them, and before I bought a torque wrench I was always spinning the caps on the nuts. I bought a torque wrench have have never had a problem since.

The chap at Furrows said the same thing about over torquing, I haven't touched them only Ford during my ownership. When refurbished by Ford direct they should have been replaced if damaged prior to offer peace of mind, well that's what the website says, so cant see how it's my fault as Ford themselves are trying to claim.

[sohco]

FD3Si said:

Wow, my comment about rejection was in jest. How foolish I feel now.

Just so you know, everyone in your local Ford dealership now refers to you as 'That Guy'.

I'm also disappointed that an Automotive Engineer doesn't know how to spell 'brakes'.

I see you work for Ford, also sorry for being dyslexic.

[sohco]

Dave. said:

They're £15 for a set of 16...

It's really not worth your time or effort.

Just buy a full set, change the ones that need changing and keep the rest as spares...

Of course it is, people complain about build quality and the like all the time, until more people complain nothing will improve.

That £15 is better in my pocket and not theirs, I payed a sustainable sum so would expect everything to be in order.

Also the other problem I have is far more serious, so I'd rather kill two birds with one stone.

[sohco]

All well and good saying just replace them, but this would effect the remainder of my warranty on the car. I still have a year to go with that and can't be bothered faffing about trying to prove the new nuts are the same or better quality than Ford's, which would require me paying an independent engineer to do if something else went wrong with the car, even a new engine for example if they got spotted.

Even then, I currently have an issue with servicing and the warranty thanks to Evans Halshaw insisting the service was due on the wrong date, so two birds with one stone.

[sohco]

littleredrooster said:

Some threads on PH just beggar belief.

...and I suspect they're bolts, not nuts. But if you're an "automotive engineer", you'll know that...

Nope, definitely closed end nuts used on a Ford, nuts are female, bolts are male. .

One's a wheel bolt -http://www.ultimategarage.com/shop/part.php?products_id=2529

The others a nut - http://www.burtonpower.com/closed-wheel-nut-m12x1-...

Notice the difference.

[sohco]

njw1 said:

I've dealt with swollen Ford wheel nuts many times, either by tapping the socket on or by popping the chrome cap off with a screwdriver and using a smaller socket, easy.

As for seeking legal advice and contacting the head of UK operations? Seriously??

That's regarding another more serious issue due to servicing and it effecting my warranty cover as it stands now through no fault of mine, so I thought I'd kill two birds with one stone when sending this email. If the independent inspection as part of the Ford direct scheme by the RAC didn't pick it up the damage, what else have they potentially missed? Other's have successfully had other marques purchase the car back for the full amount payed including costs, but that's to do with the other problem of a particular dealership lying, a lot of miss information and changing the story every two minutes.

Well it'll probably be the dealership rather than Ford taken to court if it goes that far.

Anyways, it's caused too much offense for many, so mods close the thread.

[sohco]

Amazing how so many of you don't understand warranties, then no doubt complain when they aren't honored.

Using different nuts would be seen as using inferior parts by Ford which would void it, unless I can prove otherwise. The proof Ford would require is an independent Engineers report and they cost £300, so rather not take the chance, nor pay the £5 a nut Ford want and thats without fitting.

It also amazes me how many of you can't grasp it's a side issue to the main one, which has received an unsatisfactory reply from Ford, so again, rather than emailing twice I'll roll them into one, hence two birds with one stone

[sohco]

CoolHands said:

You seem to be ignoring everyone so just to be clear: get a life.

Over 700 posts a year on a forum would suggest you need to get a life.

[sohco]

Megaflow said:

sohco said:

CoolHands said:

You seem to be ignoring everyone so just to be clear: get a life.

Over 700 posts a year on a forum would suggest you need to get a life.

And yet you came to that very forum for advice. Who needs the life now?

No advice needed, it was to ask a simple question, but as ever on here to many people get upset.

[sohco]

V8RX7 said:

sohco said:

I'm also an Automotive Engineer so know the the tall tale signs of corrosion and nuts being rounded off from using the wrong tool for the job.

There is no way you are an Automotive Engineer in any real sense.

What did you study / what do you do ?

Afraid I am, no need to be jealous and still don't get the hostility after asking a very simple question.

I can go on about crack propagation which occurs in all metals, how vibration and corrosion speeds that process up, ultimately leading to failure, so driving around with such wheel nuts if left over a period of time is a risky game.

Edited by sohco on Sunday 28th May 09:24

[sohco]

So to all of you being hostile, do you know all about clamp loading and how it can lead to failure seeing the wheel leave the hub due to under or over torqueing? How using an impact wrench will over torque a wheel nut 3 to 5 times past specification in the worst case, they don't have these torque specifications for fun. It can and does cause the studs to fail, so sorry for wanting to hold Ford accountable for shoddy workmanship.

Seems too many are happy running risk of there wheel coming off at 70 mph.

[sohco]

V8RX7 said:

sohco said:

V8RX7 said:

sohco said:

I'm also an Automotive Engineer so know the the tall tale signs of corrosion and nuts being rounded off from using the wrong tool for the job.

There is no way you are an Automotive Engineer in any real sense.

What did you study / what do you do ?

Afraid I am, no need to be jealous and still don't get the hostility after asking a very simple question.

I can go on about crack propagation which occurs in all metals, how vibration and corrosion speeds that process up, ultimately leading to failure, so driving around with such wheel nuts if left over a period of time is a risky game.

Edited by sohco on Sunday 28th May 09:24

Oh you've rumbled me - I'm so jealous - I've always aspired to a Fiesta.

I'm just honing my skills driving my V8 IS200, RX7 twin turbo and supercharged MX5, awaiting the day I'm finally ready to take on the challenge that is taming a mighty Fiesta.

I know nothing about rust nor overtightening wheel nuts despite modifying the above cars and hundreds more.

The way you express yourself I'd be amazed if you are over 16, have ever had a job or got any Engineering experience whatsoever.

Face facts you can't even use the quotes when replying FFS !

So why the need to comment or even question what I have to say? When someone results to personal abuse they've lost the argument.

[sohco]

Megaflow said:

sohco said:

Megaflow said:

sohco said:

CoolHands said:

You seem to be ignoring everyone so just to be clear: get a life.

Over 700 posts a year on a forum would suggest you need to get a life.

And yet you came to that very forum for advice. Who needs the life now?

No advice needed, it was to ask a simple question, but as ever on here to many people get upset.

If no advice was needed why did you ask the question?

Just because you don't like the answer doesn't make everybody else's opinion invalid.

What was the need for all the hostility and personal abuse? It was a question and wasn't seeking any advice at all, it's clear many of you don't like to discuss things and are typical key board warriors.

[sohco]

kev b said:

Ford have been fitting this style wheelnut since the Granada Mk2 was current, they were a pain back then and Ford have done nothing about it in the intervening forty years.

Land Rover fit these as well and they are even more of a pain due to size and visibility, nobody wants rusty wheenuts on show and customers aren't impressed when their Disco comes back from a tyre change with butchered wheelnuts.

Realisticaly there is absolutely no chance of them changing now.

As for tightening, a significant minority of vehicles have overtightened nuts IME, however I have not heard of an epidemic of snapped studs so I presume the chances of the OPs wheels dropping off are minuscule.

My advice to the OP, if this issue really worries you then buy a complete set of nuts and studs, fit them, using a torque wrench, the ensuing peace of mind will be worth the effort.

If the car wasn't under warranty that's what I'd do, as it is, I don't think it's too much to hold Ford to account on this and for them to pay.

This is also a side issue to something more serious, so rather than do two separate complaints, I thought if combine the two. However it's enraged many, with some questioning what I say despite knowing no better themselves.

Anyway, it's nice to see we have people still using the forum who don't get enraged every two minutes.

[sohco]

Glasgowrob said:

The Ford wheel nuts are fine


Until a dealership monkey buzzes them up and damages the covers

My money's on the dealer monkeys damaging them, mine were fine for 70k miles until a Ford main dealer worked on the car, funnily enough the only wheel nuts showing and issue are the only ones they would have removed

Thanks for the reply and thats what I thought, Ford makes some good cars but are thoroughly let down by there dealership network.

Doesn't help the warranty work costs are paid for by the dealership and not Ford, unlike many other manufactures.

[sohco]

V8RX7 said:

sohco said:

So why the need to comment or even question what I have to say? When someone results to personal abuse they've lost the argument.

Because you are a complete arse and I've got 5 mins to kill whilst drinking my tea

How have I been a complete arse? You've questioned my credentials, even questioning if I'm an Automotive Engineer, yet you know better, so to redeem yourself since you're the expert having modified hundreds of cars. Explain to me how crack propagation, vibration, corrosion, loading and throwing in heat causes fatigue failure?