Banding rims.

[doubble99]

Can it be done? Yes of course it can.

Are there companies that can do it? Loads of them it seems.

But the question is, how wide can I band them out and how much/little negative offset can I run?

I want to band them out from 7" for certain to 9" probably, they are ET+33 currently and I already know they'll rub like buggery on the steering as my current alloys are ET00.

My measurements so far indicate that trimming 40mm off the back and adding 100mm on the front would give me a rim width of 9" 3/8" and offset of ET-49.

What do we think?

[doubble99]

Since when were wheels suspension and brakes?

Any guidance here?

[doubble99]

GreenV8S said:

I don't understand the question. You seem to have a plan and know that it's possible. Are you expecting somebody to tell you whether you're going to have suspension/bodywork clearance issues?

Is a 100mm banding too much on a rim?

I worked out the clearance issues but have never seen more than 50mm bands and whilst I wait patiently for the machinist to get back in touch I was wondering if others had gone that wide or maybe wider?

[doubble99]

Scrump said:

How do you expect anyone on here to tell you how wide you can band them out and what offset you can run?
You don’t even say what vehicle it is for.
7 inch to 9 inch, an extra 2 inches, is not unusual but whether it would fit on your vehicle you already seem to know the answer.

Sorry, I don't tend to use forums that much and I'm not blessed with the knowledge in my own hands and none of my mates know anything about banding, they just buy what they want ready made and while it's nice to click and your stuff is delivered but then you just end up with the same as everyone else as they can click the same buttons too.

It's for a Range Rover Classic.

Currently on Disco alloys with ET00 running 235/85 r16

New rims will be RRC Rostyles which I've measured out as ET+33 and I am planning 285/75 r16 as new tyre size.

I don't want to run spacers hence wanting to trim 40mm out the back and having that seam welded back on and then the front of the rim banded out by 100mm to make it easy for machine shop.

But my thoughts are that I'm asking too much from the banding and that I'll load up too much pressure on the rims.

Easy when you know the answers I suppose, but as I don't I thought I would ask here, sorry that my initial post had overlooked the basic info.

[doubble99]

Scrump said:

The banded wheels I have seen have had the outer rim cut away and a band added in to widen the wheel outwards, the link here says they can add in up to 12 inches
http://www.usherengineering.co.uk/banded%20wheels....

You also want to remove 40mm from the rear of the rim and I am doubtful this is possible as the wheel design may not have a sufficiently sized and shaped section to remove.

rims internally.

[doubble99]

Scrump said:

This thread may help.
It is the long running RRC thread and the link be,low should take you to the posts discussing banded wheels on a RRC.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

That's great, but why couldn't I find it in the searches I've done?

[doubble99]

InitialDave said:

One thing you can do is flip the wheel centre to make the inside face the outer face, which can significantly reduce offset. I recently did some wheels for a (non road legal) project and pulled them back from about ET60 to more like ET15.

But with what you're after, I would either buy complete wheels in the dimensions you want (are Matt Lee wheels still a thing?), or if you really want the Rostlye look, having those centres welded into appropriate rims.

To both widen by banding and change offset on a set of wheels strikes me as something that would involve a lot of work, and the cost could add up quite quickly?

I also agree with what people are saying about thinking about what you want - if a wheel with ET33 offset causes rubbing, then adding 50mm total width while changing to ET00 is only really moving the rear face outwards by 8mm from where it was, so it could still be a bit close, you could well need to go past zero offset to get clearance, and then there's the geometry effects to consider on things like scrub radius when taking into account what diameter tyres you'll be running.

I want a particular look that is familiar but odd all at the same time.

By my calculations i will be at a negative offset of 49mm on a 9" width, which would be less than negative 33 as I've seen run on a fairly common 38mm spacer.

9" rim to suit an 11½” tyre, i think the 7" Rostyles are too narrow for the new wider tyres.

[doubble99]

Zulu 10 said:

I don’t normally do the prophet of doom ‘think of the children’ type hysteria, but have you (the OP I mean) considered the additional stresses which your proposed modifications will impart on the suspension, ball joints, wheel studs etc?

As a sobering thought might I suggest that you look closely at the Disco shown in the picture in this article: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-4333163...

It is still unknown at this time exactly what the failure was and the exact cause, sobering it is, but this is the type of failure i am trying to avoid by reaching out to those with knowledge and experience of what i am trying to achieve, it could also be a good reference thread for the future?

[doubble99]

InitialDave said:

Careful, I've noticed there seems to be this confusion of negative and positive offset when things are discussed online. I think it comes from the terminology being used differently in different countries such as the US.

ET33 is, as far as I'm concerned, a negative offset. The wheel is pushed back into the arch 33mm from its centreline, relative to the hub face.

If that's the standard wheel, and you put all the additional 50mm rim width on the outer side of the wheel, the centreline of the wheel is now 25mm further out, so you'd reduce the amount of negative offset by that much and end up with ET08.

But the "backspacing" of the wheel (distance from the mounting face to the inner edge of the rim) is unchanged, so if it's hitting stuff now, it'd hit stuff then, too.

This is better for clearance than widening the rim and preserving offset by putting the increased width equally either side, but it sounds like you need to go even further than this?

Edit: re-read everything, and yes, what you're saying (add at the front while removing at the back) should give positive offset and increase clearance. That's a hell of a lot of positive offset though.

If I had to do it, I'd probably flip the rim then band it.

Only vaguely relevant, but this is the effect of the flipping I mentioned doing in my earlier post:

Edited by InitialDave on Tuesday 8th January 09:04

Wow, thanks for the pictures, yes i see exactly what you mean, I have a scheduled call to the machine shop this afternoon so we can discuss and explore this option further then.

Thanks again.

[doubble99]

InitialDave said:

No problem. They may advise against it on the basis of the retention bead on the rim should be on the outside - I didn't have to worry about such things, as I said, mine are for (very low speed) off road use and I'm also running tubes.

But depending how they do the job, maybe they could add a retaining bead.

I've sent an email asking if its possible to flip centres and band the out 50mm, centre flip would yield ET00 banding would give the necessary width of wheel rim, see if he replies now or wait until later.

[doubble99]

IJWS15 said:

A mix of imperial and metric dimensions being used - what could possibly go wrong!

Broad speaking open conversations in the country that appears to have invented not just metric but also several versions of imperial weights and measures should be enjoyed, not ridiculed.

[doubble99]

GreenV8S said:

doubble99 said:

9" rim to suit an 11½” tyre,

They don't have to be an exact match but the difference quoted above looks a bit excessive to me. Usually I'd aim to have the tread width similar to the rim width, preferably with the tread narrower than the rim rather than wider. A wider tread on a narrow rim tends to pick up the inside edge under side loads which can give some strange handling characteristics near the limit.

For the road tyres I'm familiar width, the tyre nominal width is quoted at the widest point of the sidewall when installed on the recommended rim size and in the sizes I use this works out to about an inch wider than the tread as a rough guide. So I'm used to seeing tyres nominally up to about an inch wider than the rim. I suspect an extra inch on the tyre width is going to distort the sidewalls quite noticeably and in the wrong direction.

This is for an off road vehicle that will have an 8 1/2 inch sidewall depth, I am fully expecting sidewall distortion over rocks when I'm running 12psi or even sand running 20psi

The tyres in question.





Perhaps we tread in different circles, I'm concerned that I will have my rims too exposed.

[doubble99]

InitialDave said:

Yes, I think you can use a narrower wheel if you wish.

BF Goodrich, for example, specify 7.5" to 9" for a 285/75R16, and their reference measurements are when on an 8" rim.

I currently run 235/85 r16 on 16X7 rims and they're perfect with good sidewall protection for the rims.

I had considered just buying wheels but they're all bland and if you go for custom rims you can triple the cost of getting these banded and flipped.

[doubble99]

Mr2Mike said:

That is awful, her poor mother must have been through hell considering she had already battled leukaemia for 3 years.

Terrible for them but i found it even more distasteful to see the anti 4X4 brigade lead the charge, their motto being "never let a good tragedy go to waste".

It is still unclear what caused the accident and speculation is unwarranted considering the thousands of accidents annually on Britain roads.

[doubble99]

Mr2Mike said:

I agree, it doesn't help anyone. However I have to wonder why the investigation is taking so long, the cause of the failure shouldn't be hard to determine.

Standard procedure in a fatality I'm afraid

[doubble99]

The rims are off and in the hands of TNT for delivery with the machinist, all being well they're going to be there by Thursday and back to me by end of next week being 2" wider and looking a lot nicer.