Effects of incorrect camber and toe on rear of car?
Discussion
Recently bought a new vehicle and had to get the tracking/alignment done.
Initially the chap using the hunter machine input the wrong details and had it down as my car had rough road suspension when it hasn't.
It's a 68 plate Octavia vrs 245.
I took it back after I saw the mistake and he changed it to what he thought was the correct car. Unfortunately it's not and I've lost faith in the garage now as I also overheard the tyre fitters and the alignment bloke taking the piss out if me for taking it back.
The upshot of all this is that my rear toe is set at 5 degrees and should be 8
The rear camber is set at -1.09 one side and -1.18 the other. Both sides should be -1.45
Will these differences have an effect on the handling.
The car doesn't feel stable at all and feels like it's always trying to over steer.
Cheers.
Steve.
Initially the chap using the hunter machine input the wrong details and had it down as my car had rough road suspension when it hasn't.
It's a 68 plate Octavia vrs 245.
I took it back after I saw the mistake and he changed it to what he thought was the correct car. Unfortunately it's not and I've lost faith in the garage now as I also overheard the tyre fitters and the alignment bloke taking the piss out if me for taking it back.
The upshot of all this is that my rear toe is set at 5 degrees and should be 8
The rear camber is set at -1.09 one side and -1.18 the other. Both sides should be -1.45
Will these differences have an effect on the handling.
The car doesn't feel stable at all and feels like it's always trying to over steer.
Cheers.
Steve.
Recently bought a new vehicle and had to get the tracking/alignment done.
Initially the chap using the hunter machine input the wrong details and had it down as my car had rough road suspension when it hasn't.
It's a 68 plate Octavia vrs 245.
I took it back after I saw the mistake and he changed it to what he thought was the correct car. Unfortunately it's not and I've lost faith in the garage now as I also overheard the tyre fitters and the alignment bloke taking the piss out if me for taking it back.
The upshot of all this is that my rear toe is set at 5 degrees and should be 8
The rear camber is set at -1.09 one side and -1.18 the other. Both sides should be -1.45
Will these differences have an effect on the handling.
The car doesn't feel stable at all and feels like it's always trying to over steer.
Cheers.
Steve.
Initially the chap using the hunter machine input the wrong details and had it down as my car had rough road suspension when it hasn't.
It's a 68 plate Octavia vrs 245.
I took it back after I saw the mistake and he changed it to what he thought was the correct car. Unfortunately it's not and I've lost faith in the garage now as I also overheard the tyre fitters and the alignment bloke taking the piss out if me for taking it back.
The upshot of all this is that my rear toe is set at 5 degrees and should be 8
The rear camber is set at -1.09 one side and -1.18 the other. Both sides should be -1.45
Will these differences have an effect on the handling.
The car doesn't feel stable at all and feels like it's always trying to over steer.
Cheers.
Steve.
Thanks for the reply.
Tyre pressures are set as recommended by Skoda.
This is how it's set currently .....
photoupload
And these are the correct settings for the car ...
Tyre pressures are set as recommended by Skoda.
This is how it's set currently .....
photouploadAnd these are the correct settings for the car ...
Hi.
I'm comparing it to our other car which is a 16 plate Octavia vrs.
New car is a 68 plate Octavia vrs.
Both cars have the same wheels.
Both cars have same size tyres 225/40/18 all set to 35 psi as per Skoda
The 16 plate is planted on the road. Handles really well and doesn't fidget about.
New car is really unsettled and feels like it wants to over steer everywhere. I turn into a corner and the back end just rolls.
I'm comparing it to our other car which is a 16 plate Octavia vrs.
New car is a 68 plate Octavia vrs.
Both cars have the same wheels.
Both cars have same size tyres 225/40/18 all set to 35 psi as per Skoda
The 16 plate is planted on the road. Handles really well and doesn't fidget about.
New car is really unsettled and feels like it wants to over steer everywhere. I turn into a corner and the back end just rolls.
Hi all.
Thanks for the replies
If I compare what they have set my car to and what it should be set to then the rear camber is off the scale and the toe is nearly red too.
I've checked tyre pressures again this morning and all set to correct spec for car.
It feels so unstable on the motorway. Really fidgety and any steering input makes the car feel like it has flat rear tyres and the back end wants to come round.
Thanks for the replies
If I compare what they have set my car to and what it should be set to then the rear camber is off the scale and the toe is nearly red too.
I've checked tyre pressures again this morning and all set to correct spec for car.
It feels so unstable on the motorway. Really fidgety and any steering input makes the car feel like it has flat rear tyres and the back end wants to come round.
xjay1337 said:
I don't think it's in degrees at that level, it will be likely 5 minutes, 5 degrees is insane. 8 Degrees even more.
As long as both sides are roughly equal in the straight ahead, and the car drives straight then who cares.
Theory is some positive toe (ie the wheels point outwards like this \---/ would give you a more "active" feeling rear end, reducing mid corner understeer and such.
And the theory being negative toe (like this /---\ ) would create a more stable feeling car and reduce the mobility on the rear.
The alignment printout looks fine to me if I'm honest and certainly you won't notice a very small amount of toe in or out in such an understeery car.
I don't buy the "poor alignment" issue really as if you are vaugely switched on you can tell how your car is within 5 minutes of having it done and if you're not happy then you should go back.
I used £20 local tyre (independant) alignments for around 5 years and never had any issues with tyre wear. Probably had 15-16 alignments from those guys and only had to get it corrected once, when the steering wheel wasn't quite straight.
Im not suggesting its a poor alignment, Im saying they have done it for the wrong suspension type twice now.As long as both sides are roughly equal in the straight ahead, and the car drives straight then who cares.
Theory is some positive toe (ie the wheels point outwards like this \---/ would give you a more "active" feeling rear end, reducing mid corner understeer and such.
And the theory being negative toe (like this /---\ ) would create a more stable feeling car and reduce the mobility on the rear.
The alignment printout looks fine to me if I'm honest and certainly you won't notice a very small amount of toe in or out in such an understeery car.
I don't buy the "poor alignment" issue really as if you are vaugely switched on you can tell how your car is within 5 minutes of having it done and if you're not happy then you should go back.
I used £20 local tyre (independant) alignments for around 5 years and never had any issues with tyre wear. Probably had 15-16 alignments from those guys and only had to get it corrected once, when the steering wheel wasn't quite straight.
If you were to put my car onto a hunter alignment with the correct suspension set up the rear camber on both sides would be red and the toe would be red also.
Rear Camber should be -1.45 on mine, One side is -1.09 and the other is -1.17
The car isnt driving straight, the slighest quick steering input makes it feel like its going to swap ends.
The car feels far too lively and unsettled on the rear for me, its not a track car where I want tons of oversteer.
Sorry I didn't mean it to sound as though I was questioning.
I'm just trying to find out that if you think the geometry is ok and within limits what would make the car feel like it is massively over steering ?
Tyre pressures fine
No damage
Nothing out of line or untoward
Wheels straight and all balanced
The front of the car feels absolutely fine ?
I'm just trying to find out that if you think the geometry is ok and within limits what would make the car feel like it is massively over steering ?
Tyre pressures fine
No damage
Nothing out of line or untoward
Wheels straight and all balanced
The front of the car feels absolutely fine ?
Cheers guys.
So what do I need to be looking at then as both me and the wife can feel it's different to the other car when it should feel the same.
Whilst I agree that some of the settings are ok they are only just about ok if that makes sense.
I've checked everything I can think of.
No play in bearings
Tyre pressures good
Tyres good
No damage to suspension
All suspension bolts tight
Wheels tight
Tried different wheels
Basically when i turn it the rear of the car tries to follow round quite a lot. Almost like driving around on well under inflated tyres is the feel I have.
I've spoke with Hunter and they confirmed that the garage have set it to the wrong suspension type again.
The have set it to sport suspension G02
My car should be sport suspension RS G07
So it could be that due to my car being lower than a normal Octavia as it has the vrs suspension it could be exaggerating the wrong settings.
I don't know ?? I'm at a loss.
So what do I need to be looking at then as both me and the wife can feel it's different to the other car when it should feel the same.
Whilst I agree that some of the settings are ok they are only just about ok if that makes sense.
I've checked everything I can think of.
No play in bearings
Tyre pressures good
Tyres good
No damage to suspension
All suspension bolts tight
Wheels tight
Tried different wheels
Basically when i turn it the rear of the car tries to follow round quite a lot. Almost like driving around on well under inflated tyres is the feel I have.
I've spoke with Hunter and they confirmed that the garage have set it to the wrong suspension type again.
The have set it to sport suspension G02
My car should be sport suspension RS G07
So it could be that due to my car being lower than a normal Octavia as it has the vrs suspension it could be exaggerating the wrong settings.
I don't know ?? I'm at a loss.
So just to update this thread:
Took my car to a different garage that had been recommended and they had a look on their machine.
The rear end was way off. Left hand side camber and toe were in the red and the right hand side toe was off.
Once this was set correctly it showed the front toe was off too. One wheel was pointing dead straight and the other toeing in.
All set correctly now and feels much much better. The chap that did it took it for a drive and said it handles much better too.
Took my car to a different garage that had been recommended and they had a look on their machine.
The rear end was way off. Left hand side camber and toe were in the red and the right hand side toe was off.
Once this was set correctly it showed the front toe was off too. One wheel was pointing dead straight and the other toeing in.
All set correctly now and feels much much better. The chap that did it took it for a drive and said it handles much better too.
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