Corroded brake line unions

[bayzoo]

Hi,

I attempted to change my rear axle bushings on my MK8 Civic, but had to give up. The old bushings have a lip which makes using a press and pull kit impossible unless you fabricate a larger pipe (which I can’t do). I thought about cutting the lip off but this was too difficult with limited access.

I then thought about dropping the whole axle but then was prevented from doing that due to corroded brake unions... one of the nut starts to round and the other pictured below is so corroded it doesn’t have any flats anymore. I’ve checked and the brake lines are in one section all the way to the junction box (or whatever it’s called). Am I going to have to replace the whole lines? If so is it likely to be a costly job for a mechanic to do?

I’m surprised I’ve had no advisories due to the corrosion on all the brake hoses at the rear... it’s really bad.

Thanks

[bayzoo]

As in replace the whole line?

[bayzoo]

OK - only way to cut this off is cutting into the hard line itself. I believe these are steel lines, so flaring these will be a no go, so it looks like I'm left with replacing the whole line unless I've missed any other options?

[bayzoo]

The rest of the car is actually ok - the rear axle is in bad shape and there is surface rust on the underside of the car as you can see in the pic, but the question you pose as to whether it's worth me spending any more money is valid. Having never flared anything before I'm not sure I could do it on potentially corroded steel lines in situ. I might give a local Honda Indy a shout tomorrow to see what they can offer.

Here's a diagram of the lines layout, the bends look complex - is that line you suggest easily bent to shape?

[bayzoo]

Sounds good thanks buddy

[bayzoo]

Dave Brand said:

Bushes, not bushings!

Thanks, I stand corrected

stevieturbo said:

bayzoo said:

OK - only way to cut this off is cutting into the hard line itself. I believe these are steel lines, so flaring these will be a no go, so it looks like I'm left with replacing the whole line unless I've missed any other options?

A proper flaring tool will do steel no problem. But likely some of the steel is also corroded anyway ?

Thanks, are you able to recommend a good hand held flaring tool?

[bayzoo]

stevieturbo said:

For vice/worktable based flares, this copy of the old Sykes is another almost foolproof tool.

I used the old Sykes like this one many years ago, and it produced perfect flares every time. I guess you could probably manipulate it to be held in stilsons or some other handheld style...but in a vice it is superb.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brake-Pipe-Flaring-Tool...

For portable though, I'd do Flaremaster 2 for quality and convenience.

So despite your good advice I think I’m wimping out on this job for now - brake line flaring is a skill I’d like to learn as I’m sure I’ll need it again and it looks satisfying.

The risk for me is that I spend a couple of hundred on the tools, make a mess of it and have to pay a garage anyway. If I snap the pipe on the car or mess up a bunch of flares I could be in a worse position... or even still I think it’s fine and end up with no brakes at speed.

I think I will invest in the Flaremaster 2 and buy some piping to practise. I did watch a YouTube video of a guy using this tool which was ok, but it slipped over the basics, are there any good resources you know of that could help me understand more?

Also, the piping on the car has a coating on it - that doesn’t make a difference to how you flare does it?

Edited by bayzoo on Monday 19th April 09:49

[bayzoo]

I must have missed your recommendation for the eBay tool - 35 quid is good and it gets good reviews so it’s worth a punt. I could be back in the game on this.

So I’ve bought the tool, a cutter and just need the pipe now. All that seems to be offered is Kunifer 3/16 inch (which I worked out is 4.76mm), should I be going for 4.75mm tubing for a DIN flare or does it now work like that?

[bayzoo]

steveo3002 said:

have you checked the other brake pipes ...guess theyre in similar shape

The brake pipes look in good condition as they go under the undertray but before I even attempt anything and decide the best course of action I’ll properly inspect.

If the whole line does need replacing then there’s no way I could do that.

I’m still going to learn how to flare even if I go to professional.

[bayzoo]

So everything after the main hard lines is for the bin - I’ve only owned this car for 6 months and the last owner had it from new so he clearly didn’t think to replace these, though I’m surprised they’re hasn’t been any MOT advisories for the brake lines.

[bayzoo]

I refurbished and rebuilt all 4 calipers (aside from the hand brake mechs) so these are all good as new. The bleed nipples were ok, I used a hex socket and ratchet and they came out fine.

[bayzoo]

steveo3002 said:

it flares fine with that flare tool zero issues at all

dont forget a couple of male-male din joiners
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brake-Pipe-2-Qty-2-Way-...

I was just searching for these so you saved me a job, have now ordered, thanks!

I’m considering visiting my local scrappy and getting my hands on some of the steel piping my car used to practise on before even attempting it on my own. Might seem a bit far fetched but I prepare for a job as much as I can, and with it being brakes you can’t get it wrong

[bayzoo]

CrutyRammers said:

Kunifer is, or should be, longer-lifed than plain copper, but harder to get a good flare in, IME. If the car isn't expected to live for more than a few years, you might be better off with copper tbh.
Do a good few practice ones before you go to make the line up proper. Don't expect to get it right first time. Test it and check for leaks thoroughly before using, some really hard pumps, leave it overnight and see if anything has leaked.

Some pictures of my experiments and learnings here http://alfadax.com/content/during/11/brakes_again....

It's more fiddly than hard, and you can test it all in the garage, so it's not as scary as it may first seem.

Many thanks, I’ve bookmarked your link - makes a good read, very useful.

[bayzoo]

Forgive my ignorance here but I might have bought the wrong flaring tool. It says for 4.75mm pipe and I’ve bought 3/16 inch pipe... I know it’s very close but is that a no-go?

[bayzoo]

Krikkit said:

No, the difference is only 0.0125mm, not worth worrying about.

Thanks

[bayzoo]

stevieturbo said:

Kunifer or copper is dead easy to get good flares with proper tools.

It's only cheap rubbish that makes the process more difficult.

Steel on the other hand does require good tools, cheap stuff will just make a mess.

And as has already been noted, any joins of pipes must involve steel. ie, do not try and mate copper to copper, kunifer to kunifer etc directly
It must be with a suitable steel jointing piece in the middle.

Thanks for the advice. The unions recommended by a poster above are made from cold cast steel , and my plan is to join a coated steel pipe to the Kunifer pipe via this union. I’m assuming this is ok?

[bayzoo]

steveo3002 said:

i linked you to a proper joiner...you form your own male ends and they screw into the steel joiner , all safe above board for the mot

You did, much appreciated.

I will report back on my progress and hopefully share some pictures of my flares for some feedback.

[bayzoo]

Yogioes said:

Here's the method I used for making a new Kunifer pipe match the profile of the old steel pipe.
Used cable ties to hold it alongside the pipe as I worked from one end to the other.

Good idea, what pipe bender tool are you using?

[bayzoo]

Still awaiting the arrival of my new bits and pieces. I’ve read in a few places that you need to chamfer and deburr prior to flaring.

The de-burring part is obvious and I have needle files for that; how important is getting the chamfer right?

[bayzoo]

So the flaring hasn’t gone so well - now you’re going to tell me I should have gotten the expensive £200 tool.

I keep getting flares like this despite following the instructions:



Am I applying too much torque? Or not enough?

Thanks