What car for three children?
Discussion
And so, it has come to pass, PB Jr No3 is on their way. On its own, its great news, but it has seriously dented my search for an entertaining car to carry around the other two. I now need an entertaining car that can fit three child seats (two boosters and an infant capsule) and two adults. If I ask in the GG section, I'll get lots of suggestions of things we can't get here, like an S-Max or similar.
So, what do I want? Well, lets start with what I don't - CX9, Territory, Kluger, Tribeca are off - too big, auto only and, well, where's the fun? Mrs PB can't stand any of them either. So, on the current list is a Gen 4 Liberty wagon 3.0RB or GT, 2008-onwards Forester, Mazda6 wagon, and, er, that's it. What else is out there??? I'd like to think a V8 Commodore wagon would be good, but I've never enjoyed the V6s I've driven. A V8 Falcon would be fun, but that's sedan only and I need a wagon. Budget is around $20k.
In the meantime, if anyone fancies a low-kms, one-owner, 2007 Forester X with full Subaru service history, drop me a note. Would love to keep it, but its now too small...
So, what do I want? Well, lets start with what I don't - CX9, Territory, Kluger, Tribeca are off - too big, auto only and, well, where's the fun? Mrs PB can't stand any of them either. So, on the current list is a Gen 4 Liberty wagon 3.0RB or GT, 2008-onwards Forester, Mazda6 wagon, and, er, that's it. What else is out there??? I'd like to think a V8 Commodore wagon would be good, but I've never enjoyed the V6s I've driven. A V8 Falcon would be fun, but that's sedan only and I need a wagon. Budget is around $20k.
In the meantime, if anyone fancies a low-kms, one-owner, 2007 Forester X with full Subaru service history, drop me a note. Would love to keep it, but its now too small...
Have tried the new Territory and it just seemed like too much car. Most of the time it'll be me or Mrs PB with either two or three kids. We'll have a second car, so its only occasionally going to carry all five of us.
Might see if I can find a 530 wagon to have a look round though - I know over here they're auto only, which is not a selling point for me, but should be an entertaining drive. Good shout.
As for the Commodore, in ten years I've not driven one that I enjoyed. I've also got memories of following a VE V8 down McCarrs Creek Road in my MX5 and watching it slew around as the driver struggled to keep it on the narrow road, whilst I just sat back a safe distance. He was trying, could tell by the way he blasted away on the short straights, but it didn't look enjoyable. They make perfect sense on paper, I just can't get on with them.
Might see if I can find a 530 wagon to have a look round though - I know over here they're auto only, which is not a selling point for me, but should be an entertaining drive. Good shout.
As for the Commodore, in ten years I've not driven one that I enjoyed. I've also got memories of following a VE V8 down McCarrs Creek Road in my MX5 and watching it slew around as the driver struggled to keep it on the narrow road, whilst I just sat back a safe distance. He was trying, could tell by the way he blasted away on the short straights, but it didn't look enjoyable. They make perfect sense on paper, I just can't get on with them.
Pommygranite said:
Congratulations!
Question - if you have a 07 Forester now and its too small isnt the Liberty, new Forester or Mazda 6 going to be also too small?
For $20k if you need a wagon could you get a Passat?A6 Allroad (too old?). My vote would be Liberty by the way from that lot.
Thanks! Question - if you have a 07 Forester now and its too small isnt the Liberty, new Forester or Mazda 6 going to be also too small?
For $20k if you need a wagon could you get a Passat?A6 Allroad (too old?). My vote would be Liberty by the way from that lot.
The 07 Forester is a bit narrower than the S3 that replaced it. I can get three seats across but can't get to the buckles and a bit of extra width would be nice. Said the actress... Liberty is also a bit wider across the seat, if awkwardly shaped, and the new Libertys are wider again, so its the front runner for me. I'm already a Subaru fan, so its not a hard decision, but I wanted to see if there was anything else worth considering.
VW/Audi wagon stuff is all auto, as it the BMW previously suggested, otherwise they'd be on the shopping list too. Just don't like autos, and neither does Mrs PB.
Have now tried a V8 Commodore and (a) it felt a bit one-trick - lovely in a straight line, so I understand that bit, but really felt the mass through corners, and (b) Mrs PB hated it. Build quality also feels a bit behind the Japanese.
The only other choice that might appeal could be a manual Volvo 850R wagon, in yellow, with anthracite wheels, and I know a man on the Northern Beaches with a E34 M5 wagon...
TAS1981 said:
You said no to CX-9...would a CX-7 be too small? They do a nifty 2.5litre turbo version don't they? Supposed to be quite quick?
Subaru Liberty is a good shout. Forester turbo?
CX7 would be about the right size, but auto only. And, having just checked out the inside of a new Forester and confirmed two boosters and a capsule do indeed fit nicely, the idea of a bit of flat-four turbo goodness has surfaced. I reckon with a bit of man maths, I can get a Liberty wagon and a Forester XT. Not for $20k, granted, but there are ways...Subaru Liberty is a good shout. Forester turbo?
WeirdNeville said:
Any love for Volvos?
Reckon so...PomBstard said:
...manual 850R in yellow with anthracite wheels...
As for the A4 - about the same size as a Gen4 Liberty inside but $ for $ I think you get less. My budget looks at a 2001'ish S4 2.7TT which will be a bit quicker than a Lib GT or R-B. Insurance is definitely higher, and I'll put money on parts being a bit pricier, being European and prestige and all that.Having said that, if I had the money, that RS2 would be on the drive and the kids in the boot.
In my time over here I've come to value the reliability, parts availability and pretty good build quality of Japanese cars, and Subaru seem to be some of the better ones, along with Toyota, Mazda and Honda. The fact that most Subarus can be had with manual boxes in a country that loves autos is also part of their appeal.
Which means that if you want a car with a fair sized boot or wagon, decent turn of pace, that can fit two boosters and an infant capsule across the back and comes with a manual box, then there are few choices. In fact, much as I have looked, and I really have, the list is (08-on) Forester XT, Liberty GT/R-B, Commodore SS, V70R/850R, S4/RS4, 9-5 Aero. I haven't yet found another mid- or large-sized wagon that fits the bill.
ezakimak said:
You can order the current 3 series with a manual as a no cost option according to the email I got from the rep the other day
Please order one! Any spec, as long as its a decent engine, and I'll buy it in a few years' time. B7 A4 is out of my budget, but you're right - its width that counts. Esp the width in the middle part of the rear seat, which is where my current Forester fails me, and the new ones are noticeably wider. I'm only 6'2" so can tolerate a slightly shorter car too...Jader1973 said:
Actually they have 3 tricks: burnouts and doughnuts are the other two! Try doing them in a Subaru 
I've had zero exposure to Subaru so really don't understand the appeal. I've read horror stories (on here) about parts prices, reliability etc although those are from the UK, maybe they are better here for some reason.
I was a little unfair to the Commy - it is huge inside. And it can of course to the aforementioned hoonery!I've had zero exposure to Subaru so really don't understand the appeal. I've read horror stories (on here) about parts prices, reliability etc although those are from the UK, maybe they are better here for some reason.
I've had 3 Subarus already, and I'm not sure I can explain the appeal either. I think the build quality, reliability (in my experience) and driver appeal all combine. Which is an odd thing to write as, other than top-line stuff, its not usually a spectacular drive, but I've always felt that the basics were always there. And its usually offered with my preferred transmission of choice. Not sure I'd be such a fan in the UK as there would be more competitors on my list.
Now, back to that 328i that is going to be ordered on my behalf, five years before I need it...
WeirdNeville said:
Jader1973 said:
I've had zero exposure to Subaru so really don't understand the appeal. I've read horror stories (on here) about parts prices, reliability etc although those are from the UK, maybe they are better here for some reason.
You don't "get" them unless you've lived with one for a bit.Reliability is generally very good (check out the number of aged and 300k km+ Legacies and outbacks on Gumtree and carsales), and the best terms I can put on it is that Subarus feel "honest" and wear their heart on their sleeve. You know how if you own an Audi, you just know the b
d is working out how to perform a wallet-ectomy at the next service/breakdown? You don't get any of that with a Subaru. They just "are". Don't forget, their basic drivetrain configuration is common to Imprezas, Legacies(Liberties), Outbacks and Foresters. It's been working well for 30 years, with a number of minor improvements and refinements, but the basic principle is as tried and tested as drivetrains come.They work, they feel secure on the road, unstoppable in bad conditions, and if you get a warm/hot one it will be devastatingly fast whilst covering for all manner of hamfisted driving. And they do all that through the innate chassis engineering, not a veneer of electronics filtering your inputs (more recent cars may vary in this).
I owned a 2005 Impreza WRX Prodrive wagon for a year in the UK before we came out here. With a quoted sub 5 second sprint to 60mph, faultless reliability and laugh out loud handling and road holding, they've very tough cars to beat as an ownership proposition. Fuel consumption and lacking the last few notches of ultimate driver involvement would be my only criticism. Put me on a damp leafy B-Road with somewhere 60 miles away to be in a hurry, and I would pick a hot Impreza every time.
Edited by WeirdNeville on Tuesday 5th November 01:57
Anyway, I reckon between this thread, and the other just started on SUVs, we'll probably end up with a reasonably definitive list of family-friendly cars...
Well, looks like I'm going to be back on the hunt in a few months' time. The Liberty has been an awesome car, and one I wish I'd bought years ago, but the kids just don't seem to stay the same size for long and the car ain't growing with them. I borrowed a mate's XC90 for a quick trip and immediately understood what all the fuss was about. Three kids and the ability to separate them by an additional row of seats is a fantastic idea!
So, the big Ovlov is on the list, esp as it can be had with a Yamaha-engineered V8 for about the same price as the 3.2 six. Fuel economy? Rubbish with either engine. Diesel? Not with my money. Handling? Er, um, ah, did I mention the cupholders? Well, you get the message. If I'm going SUV, then it must have 7 seats and a fun engine.
I'm still not away from a fast wagon, and for the same price as 2010 XC90, I can get its little bro, the V70 with a 3.0T six and a year or two younger, or it looks like I could possibly squeeze a VF Commodore SS wagon - and this is worth noting as I can't stand the cabin of the VE or even driving it, but the VF cabin does seem to be a genuine step up, not driven one yet. The only problem with any of them really is that they're all auto-only. I thought the SS would come with a manual option, as the sedan does, but not so the wagon. I'd love to get another Liberty, but the Gen 5 isn't usefully bigger than the Gen 4 across the back seat. Wait for a Levorg? Likely to be no bigger than what I've got.
So, that question again, what else is there? Q7 - too pricey and just no. Kluger - a bit meh, and I like Japanese stuff. CX9 - see Kluger. X5 - not enough seats. What other wagons are worth considering for a nominal price of say, $30-35k? E-class Merc - don't excite me in any way, but worth the money?
All and any suggestions welcomed and entertained!
So, the big Ovlov is on the list, esp as it can be had with a Yamaha-engineered V8 for about the same price as the 3.2 six. Fuel economy? Rubbish with either engine. Diesel? Not with my money. Handling? Er, um, ah, did I mention the cupholders? Well, you get the message. If I'm going SUV, then it must have 7 seats and a fun engine.
I'm still not away from a fast wagon, and for the same price as 2010 XC90, I can get its little bro, the V70 with a 3.0T six and a year or two younger, or it looks like I could possibly squeeze a VF Commodore SS wagon - and this is worth noting as I can't stand the cabin of the VE or even driving it, but the VF cabin does seem to be a genuine step up, not driven one yet. The only problem with any of them really is that they're all auto-only. I thought the SS would come with a manual option, as the sedan does, but not so the wagon. I'd love to get another Liberty, but the Gen 5 isn't usefully bigger than the Gen 4 across the back seat. Wait for a Levorg? Likely to be no bigger than what I've got.
So, that question again, what else is there? Q7 - too pricey and just no. Kluger - a bit meh, and I like Japanese stuff. CX9 - see Kluger. X5 - not enough seats. What other wagons are worth considering for a nominal price of say, $30-35k? E-class Merc - don't excite me in any way, but worth the money?
All and any suggestions welcomed and entertained!
Ta for that lot. Am no badge snob, so turbo Territory with 7 seats might be worth looking at.
X5 and Toureag are 5 seats only and I I go for SUV thingie it must be 7 seats. If I think 5 is enough, then I'd much prefer a wagon. Octavia not much bigger than a Liberty. And I do think a quick Falcon is a reasonable prospect, if only they'd done it as a wagon - really need that boot space.
Anyway, plenty of food for thought - esp as I've just taken the Lib, fully loaded with kit and family for a sightseeing lap of Mt Panorama
X5 and Toureag are 5 seats only and I I go for SUV thingie it must be 7 seats. If I think 5 is enough, then I'd much prefer a wagon. Octavia not much bigger than a Liberty. And I do think a quick Falcon is a reasonable prospect, if only they'd done it as a wagon - really need that boot space.
Anyway, plenty of food for thought - esp as I've just taken the Lib, fully loaded with kit and family for a sightseeing lap of Mt Panorama
No, not into proper off road stuff, but have come to appreciate AWD on the road over here.
Was in second and third all the way round as had whole family on board complete with boot full of stuff, but agree that tv gives no idea of just how steep the mountain course is. Will get another lap in as we pass back through in a couple of days time
Was in second and third all the way round as had whole family on board complete with boot full of stuff, but agree that tv gives no idea of just how steep the mountain course is. Will get another lap in as we pass back through in a couple of days time
Well, had a go in a Territory - not a Turbo, but got an appreciation of the size and handling. Plenty big enough inthe main cabin though rearmost seats seem more of a squeeze than the XC90. Performance was OK, and I can imagine the 4.0T being lots of fun. However, the cabin, esp the dash was a major downer. The car was only two years old but already had more rattles than my 10-year-old Lib, and I'm just not sure I could have that dash in front of me for 5 years. I enjoyed the BA Falcons I had as company cars ten years ago, not sure I like one on stilts now.
Also out of the running is the V70 - haven't managed to drive one yet, but found one to sit in and crawl over - smaller than I'd thought, and no third row option as AWD. Reports read suggest a ponderous, heavy beast that's not in the same vein as previous sporty Volvo wagons. Shame - the idea of an updated 850/V70 T5 really tickled me.
Had a good crawl around a VF Commodore and I'm impressed.
Anyway, all moot for the time being, as I've just had a client change their mind, which puts cashflow back a few months. Arse.
At the risk of highjacking my own thread, heres a pic of the Lib at the Mountain...
Hasbeen - managed to keep in 4th to The Cutting - not bad with 2 adults, 3 kids and a boot full of crap! Second/third from then on.
Also out of the running is the V70 - haven't managed to drive one yet, but found one to sit in and crawl over - smaller than I'd thought, and no third row option as AWD. Reports read suggest a ponderous, heavy beast that's not in the same vein as previous sporty Volvo wagons. Shame - the idea of an updated 850/V70 T5 really tickled me.
Had a good crawl around a VF Commodore and I'm impressed.
Anyway, all moot for the time being, as I've just had a client change their mind, which puts cashflow back a few months. Arse.
At the risk of highjacking my own thread, heres a pic of the Lib at the Mountain...
Hasbeen - managed to keep in 4th to The Cutting - not bad with 2 adults, 3 kids and a boot full of crap! Second/third from then on.
ezakimak said:
Thanks for that. I don't think E39s are much bigger than the Lib, and certainly not noticeably bigger than a Gen 5 Lib. I think I also need to get something a bit younger than the 2005 I've got, and probably aim to keep it for a few years.Really will depend on whether we think 7 seats is a must, or not. If yes, then V8 XC90, if not, then it looks like early VF or late VE Commodore V8 - perhaps an E350 or E500 for the occasional 7 seater, but then I'm back to looking at a 6-8 year-old car. I've got the Man Maths Machine on overdrive, trying to find a way to make this work
Just need a friendly client to turn words into action, and for someone to really want to sell me a car!I am, of course, entirely forgetting about the joyous experience that will be selling a car. Have a feeling the Lib is going to bring out a substantial amount of 'Innits'...
Did look at an E60 530i when first looking around - nice, but was sold on the Lib coming with a manual box and being substantially less cash to buy for the same year/kms/poke.
ezakimak said:
is the lib you have a turbo or a 6?
2.0T, hence the perceived forthcoming problem... I don't think the 6 would get as much of the same type of attention from prospective purchasers. Joy.ezakimak said:
ah, i see.
mate has a 4GEN 2.5t which was STI enhanced from the factory and has since had MRT add ons. It has held its value really well because the 5GEN is a POS in the looks department.
when i went looking at them in early 2014 they were still stupid money. seems to have come down a bit but still good money for those.
I don't think I'll have a problem selling, there are currently only 3 Gen4 wagons with turbo engine and manual gearbox on Carsales. Another 15 or so with auto. But prices have come down for the 2.5T. I'm expecting a lot of idiots to come looking.mate has a 4GEN 2.5t which was STI enhanced from the factory and has since had MRT add ons. It has held its value really well because the 5GEN is a POS in the looks department.
when i went looking at them in early 2014 they were still stupid money. seems to have come down a bit but still good money for those.
ezakimak said:
there is a massive gap between that and the next sporty wagon though. not sure what to put in its place.
i picked up a E91 3 series in 323 guise but i just don't thing that's going to cut it with 3 kids. it would be a struggle if we had 3 in baby seats that's for sure.
And this is my predicament. I don't need the space for three seats any more, only two, but its not like any of them are getting any smaller i picked up a E91 3 series in 323 guise but i just don't thing that's going to cut it with 3 kids. it would be a struggle if we had 3 in baby seats that's for sure.
ezakimak said:
my other half cant reach the pedals in the VE commodore, but is ok in the VF, which is where they discontinued the Manual, otherwise we probably would have bought a VF.
Agreed - a VF would possibly be top of the list is it came with a manual box. I'm even thinking about looking at a VE - see my comment on page 2 of this thread - humble pie in the oven...Jader1973 said:
A Series 2 VE would be a good choice.
Based on my commute, across 4 V8 VEs and 4 V8 VFs the average fuel consumption is identical.
I also had an MT V8 wagon and it was essentially the same consumption as a AT.
All based on a highway commute with a fair amount of stop/start at the city end.
Thanks for that - I've been running Subarus for so long now that I forget all about fuel economy. They're not bad, but ours get hammered around the urban areas and really don't do more than around 12,000km/yr. If it averages 15l/100km (12 on a run, 18 round town) on 91RON, it'll probably cost about the same as the 10-11 (8 on a run, 12 round town) or so I'm getting from the Lib on 98RON.Based on my commute, across 4 V8 VEs and 4 V8 VFs the average fuel consumption is identical.
I also had an MT V8 wagon and it was essentially the same consumption as a AT.
All based on a highway commute with a fair amount of stop/start at the city end.
Whatever. Client indecision means I've got to put the Lib through rego and the famed 200,000km service before any change. Was hoping to miss that bit. Will probably end up fixing the sunroof too - front part has decided it doesn't want to move - not a tricky fix, just time consuming.
At which point I'll probably look at it and see if I can squeeze them all in for a bit longer...
PomBstard said:
I am, of course, entirely forgetting about the joyous experience that will be selling a car. Have a feeling the Lib is going to bring out a substantial amount of 'Innits'...
andPomBstard said:
2.0T, hence the perceived forthcoming problem...
Just to see how this might progress, I put the Lib up on Carsales a few days ago for a price towards top dollar. The idea being to gauge how many idiots I'd be debating with, and how best to price for a quick sale. Great bloke came round yesterday with his girlfriend, having traipsed across Sydney on a Sunday, and takes delivery of it tomorrow. All of which proves I probably know nothing...Pommygranite said:
How about one of this - big things
Photo of feckin great 2006 Merc GL
Small, it is not! However, if I'm going to keep it for a few years, say 5-6, I'd rather not start with a 10-y-o car - aiming for 2009/10 as earliest. I'm still trying to convince myself that a big wagon will suffice, rather than just biting the bullet and going 7-seat SUV, and will be looking at a few this week, prob focussing on $20-30k range, rather than $30+. Photo of feckin great 2006 Merc GL
I've measured the back seat of the Lib, and I'm trying to find dimensions of other cars on the web just so I know whether or not I'm wasting mine and other people's time looking at cars that might be too small. But consistent info is proving tricky to find - anyone know any good sites?? Width is everything, said the actress...
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