Time to stop plugging classics as investments?
Discussion
I get Classic Cars magazine delivered each month. Despite the now acknowledged long term drop in classic car values, it seems that every month we are being told with a big shouty front page headline what classics to buy now.
This was October’s: “Hot 30 Classics to buy in 2020. Market experts tip the fastest climbers.”
Now November: “Clever buys for smart drivers. Why these innovators are tipped for growth.”
Of course there will be exceptions to the rule, but on average the market has been depressed for 3 or 4 years now. Shouldn’t the magazines just be extolling the virtues or otherwise of the cars themselves, rather than encouraging readers to part with their hard-earned on the false implied promise of making a sound financial investment?
This was October’s: “Hot 30 Classics to buy in 2020. Market experts tip the fastest climbers.”
Now November: “Clever buys for smart drivers. Why these innovators are tipped for growth.”
Of course there will be exceptions to the rule, but on average the market has been depressed for 3 or 4 years now. Shouldn’t the magazines just be extolling the virtues or otherwise of the cars themselves, rather than encouraging readers to part with their hard-earned on the false implied promise of making a sound financial investment?
soxboy said:
I wonder if anyone's gone back over the issues from 12-18 months ago and seen how well these 'investment opportunities' have actually done, especially once inflation and holding costs are taken into account?
To be honest, most of them had already gone up in value, long before Classic Cars finally jumped on the bandwagon. There were very few real “sleepers” in their shopping lists. Take the latest 6 as examples. Surely these have long-since plateaued, if not gone down in value?
Ferrari Dino 246GT, early Mk1 Mini, early suffix A Range Rover, Audi Quattro, Citroen DS and bit of a wild card in the UK 1958 Cadillac.
I don’t buy all this wailing about the housing ladder. Sure property prices are more expensive now than they were 10 years or more ago: over the medium/long term that always happens, but Interest rates have been at record lows throughout this time. In the past most of us had huge interest payments to make each month, before we got anywhere near paying off the capital. Today’s moaning about prices just seems like an excuse not to take the plunge to me.
aeropilot said:
True.
However, if my example is anything to go by, not the whole story.
When I bought my current place 27 years ago, you had to save for a 20% deposit as 80% mortgage was max you could get, but my property was back then 4 x times what my annual salary was.
Today, I'm just about to put that property up for sale, and if someone was trying to buy now it at the same age as I was then, doing the same job as I was doing back then etc., it would now be about 8 x times their annual salary.
Yes but your monthly mortgage repayments back then would have been almost double what they are today, so it’s swings and roundabouts.However, if my example is anything to go by, not the whole story.
When I bought my current place 27 years ago, you had to save for a 20% deposit as 80% mortgage was max you could get, but my property was back then 4 x times what my annual salary was.
Today, I'm just about to put that property up for sale, and if someone was trying to buy now it at the same age as I was then, doing the same job as I was doing back then etc., it would now be about 8 x times their annual salary.
I wouldn’t read anything into those Ferrari results, or lack of. In a struggling and saturated market, no-one’s going to pay strong money for a US LHD import at a provincial auction. As for Mondials, I bought a decent T Cabriolet 2 years ago for £40k from a reputable marque specialist inc. cam belt change. It’s probably worth about the same today, certainly no more.
Just going back to my original post, the December 2019 issue of Classic Cars has just landed on my door mat. The front cover headlines announces the “BEST OF BRITISH... Great buys to beat the market.”
Their 3 most valuable suggestions include Sierra Cosworth, AM Vanquish and Series 1 E-Type Jaguar Roadster all of which are apparently “behind the market - now’s the time to buy”. Hmm, if you say so...
Their 3 most valuable suggestions include Sierra Cosworth, AM Vanquish and Series 1 E-Type Jaguar Roadster all of which are apparently “behind the market - now’s the time to buy”. Hmm, if you say so...
wl606 said:
Today's H&H auction results. Looks like a high percentage of not solds. 16,000 mile Mondial Cab for £28,000 seems nice, but not sure if results include buyers premium.
Something odd about that Mondial. The black windscreen surround and red sills aren’t correct. Must have been resprayed wrongly. Not good for an alleged 16,000 miler.Edited by wl606 on Wednesday 27th November 19:56
Touring442 said:
vpr said:
A Mondial is the prime example of classic car madness
An utterly horrid car dragged up only by the values of its more desirable siblings.
Indeed. For years they were almost worthless engine donors, now they are the price of a 996 Turbo. Righto......An utterly horrid car dragged up only by the values of its more desirable siblings.
Correct. The Mondial is not a fast car and is at best an average performer by today’s performance standards. If you want a fast car, then buy something else. What it does give you is old school analogue motoring, mid-engined balance and room for two in the back if you have a family. Sort of like an Ur-Lotus Evora.
I fell off my chair when I saw next week's auction estimate for this in a magazine. I thought they had added an extra 0, so went onto their website to check, but no it really is £120,000 - £160,000!
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/25502/lot/20/
I struggle to imagine how that would represent value for money to the new owner.
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/25502/lot/20/
I struggle to imagine how that would represent value for money to the new owner.
One of the curiosities of this whole topic is that the wider British public now seems to think that classic car prices only ever go up. I suppose they compare it to long term investments in property or the stock market. I guess if you keep a classic car for 20 odd years, then they’re right, but we and the industry tend to look more short-term. Maybe we should all lighten up a bit!
Just been catching up on some reading. It is April’s Classic Cars magazine, so came out a month or two back (pre CV-19 lockdown). It reminded me of this thread I started 6 months ago.
In Quentin Willson’s regular monthly column on page 39, he writes “Our new mantra should be don’t buy to invest,”.
Hallelujah I thought. Finally the penny has dropped.
However, on the very next page (40) is a full page advert for Classic Cars’ very own Investment Guide 2020, which has been compiled “With our resident guru, Quentin Willson”
On page 36 there is another full page spread showing Quentin promoting the upcoming May issue with his “market-beating buys of 2020”.
You couldn’t make it up!
In Quentin Willson’s regular monthly column on page 39, he writes “Our new mantra should be don’t buy to invest,”.
Hallelujah I thought. Finally the penny has dropped.
However, on the very next page (40) is a full page advert for Classic Cars’ very own Investment Guide 2020, which has been compiled “With our resident guru, Quentin Willson”
On page 36 there is another full page spread showing Quentin promoting the upcoming May issue with his “market-beating buys of 2020”.
You couldn’t make it up!
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