Bristol 412 ........... Light touch paper and stand back

[Carsie]

Ok!.... I don't really want to be controversial but maybe after being motivated to explore Bristols (noooooo....not those type! lol!) after my Hurricane Restoration visit, I thought I'd trawl Fleabay et al and see what's about.

Tonight.........I found this..... OMG!

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C154337/

What on earth was going on? It looks worse than a Quantum Kit car based on a Sierra or WHY.

Don't get me wrong, I remember seeing the 1975 Austin Princess' at launch and thinking how good they looked (actually....I still do! lol!) and I do recall lusting after a 350i which I subsequently bought but what in blinking heck's name is this abomination?.....

When I was growing up in the early '70's,(ahhh by heck lad!) a neighbour bought a brand new Bristol 411 and I always thought it a beautiful car, clearly a thoroughbred; it was finished in dusky gold and black leather - very nice, very classy.

At what point did wide lapels, even wider flares and sideburns descend into this travesty?

What do you think? - do you still think it cuts it or is it just an overpriced kit car?

[Carsie]

"I think you're right that it's ugly, but I also think that's missing the point. It's an oddity, and for me that is a large part of the appeal."

Thats the point I'm making, it's not that it "doesn't conform to conventions in terms of style, eco-ness, handling, anything." - for sure thats where individuality, personal preference and taste come in.

"It's purpose is to transport gentlemen in comfort and will be recognised very few except those in the know."

Isn't this a case of The King Has No Clothes?.... and yes I'm playing to be controversal - at what point does marketing over substance crumble? Have you seen a Jag coupe, even portrayed in BL garish lavender? c'mon wake up!

http://www.carandclassic.com/car/C175219/#

"Expensive? For what it is on paper, yes, I'd agree, but the appeal of these brutes is from the heart not the head."

I absolutely love Jag but never in a month of Sunday's could you say (until recently) that it was a better built car than a Merc and a Merc leaves me stone cold (500E excepted)

"ETA: When new I couldn't imagine anyone forking out (a substantial amount) for one, but as a 20-something year old classic - fantastic."

....oh shudder!

It reminds me of years ago when trying to value a brand on a balance sheet - just look at it from behind....would you.... ? (spend all that money?... !)

Isn't it wonderful that we're all different eh?

[Carsie]

[Carsie]

I love the interior you posted Cubehead, I guess thats the grey car- yes? and I really like the 411 even though the Allegro headlamps don't do it any favours.

Apart from individual taste in form do you think what makes a car good looking is continuance of the line from front to rear? I remember reading recently that Sir William lyons always looked for "light line" when designing, hence as examples I guess the E Type and Lamborghini Muira have undeniable beauty.

If you look at the 411 that certainly has continuance of line indeed the interior dashboard has it (though not in the footwell or centre console) whereas in my opinion the 412 is a dis-jointed mis match of ill fitting panels with no fluidity; the bonnet could serve well as my breakfast table whilst the trailing edge looks like my patio steps.

I don't deny the character and individuality of the design just it's execution (sic)

[Carsie]

.... you guy's are going off the mark!

It's not whether Bristol is a desirable brand, marque, manufacturer etc - that is irrefutable! My point is that whether your myopia in a brand is subsumed in the proposition that because it is a Bristol that it's necessarily desirable and therein worthy of parting with ££££££.

I totally accept that, for example a V12 E type may be considered by some to be less "pure" than a 3.8 flat floor but with my ever expanding midriff caused by the genteel consumption of the finest Jameson, I may actually find a '74 V12 5.3 more appealling that a knee's up with a skinny tyred RS5 3.8....

Your teardrop, Ritmo, is to my eyes, pretty sublime; continuity of line, purity in shape, elegance in presentation with an underlying hint of what is to come; somewhat like the flash of a stocking top (my age I know! .. )

But this is exactly what I was referring to; what constitutes taste and perhaps even class?

Where is class bestowed and upon what criteria? - a brand? a name? just because it a recognised brand? Your tease regarding the S Type is actually spot on Cardingkid - the S Type, albeit a lovely car (fantastic to drive! esp V8 ) is so quiche that it's almost Disney, if that makes sense.

The 412 to my eye falls even further (farther?) from the mark (marque?) - I play of course!

Did the Carmargue hit the mark because of it's extravagence in price or because it elevated the bar in performance, comfort, dynamics and style?- I would suggest the 130 had it against the ropes in all but performance.

Coming back to tonight however, to my eyes the 412 was a failure; much like my childhood love- the Mk10 Jag, as time has passed. I recognise that it was somewhat bloated.......... and to the 412.... it was badge over style - sorry guy's!

Edited by Carsie on Saturday 30th October 23:14