Help me get my Dad into an Elise
Discussion
Not in the literal sense, he can physically get into a car by himself!
My dad has been a lifelong fan of Lotus cars and years ago he always wanted an Esprit V8. Nowadays all three of us kids have moved out and he could finally justify such an investment, but he's a big procrastinator! And keeps fabricating reasons to put it off. Esprit's are a bit long in the tooth and there's some real uncertainty about reliability, plus prices fluctuate quite a bit on the market for what is quite a rare car. An S2 Elise makes much more sense.
He's 50 years old and if he puts it off much longer he'll be too old to actually enjoy it.
I plan to go with him to Castle Lotus sometime over the coming weeks and I'm hoping to pick their brains about general Elise ownership, things to avoid and cars to search out. Obviously there will be a separate agenda on their part seeing as they have a good level of used cars, so it's possible that they might be a little biased - hence asking on here.
You'll notice I wrote investment rather than expense above, and this is because I believe that if you looked after one very well you may not sacrifice any / vast sums of depreciation - is this a realistic expectation?
I note there are different engines, namely K-series and Toyota. I had the 2ZZ in a Celica but I understand the cam profile / mapping is slightly different in an Elise? Is there a specific engine to go for, or is that too much of an ambiguous question?
I would assume the Toyota engine to be the more reliable, potentially cheaper to maintain also?
Would it be wise to broaden the search (and the budget) to consider the various Ltd edition models, as being less likely to depreciate as much? Reason for this is both the red and white (anniversary?) and JPS editions are particularly appealing but command a premium.
Naturally I'm keen to encourage so that I can have a go!
I'd be very grateful for any similar experiences (even just of the situation, not necessarily with an Elise) and links to buyers guides - I'm working my way through Google results as we speak!
Thanks in advance
My dad has been a lifelong fan of Lotus cars and years ago he always wanted an Esprit V8. Nowadays all three of us kids have moved out and he could finally justify such an investment, but he's a big procrastinator! And keeps fabricating reasons to put it off. Esprit's are a bit long in the tooth and there's some real uncertainty about reliability, plus prices fluctuate quite a bit on the market for what is quite a rare car. An S2 Elise makes much more sense.
He's 50 years old and if he puts it off much longer he'll be too old to actually enjoy it.
I plan to go with him to Castle Lotus sometime over the coming weeks and I'm hoping to pick their brains about general Elise ownership, things to avoid and cars to search out. Obviously there will be a separate agenda on their part seeing as they have a good level of used cars, so it's possible that they might be a little biased - hence asking on here.
You'll notice I wrote investment rather than expense above, and this is because I believe that if you looked after one very well you may not sacrifice any / vast sums of depreciation - is this a realistic expectation?
I note there are different engines, namely K-series and Toyota. I had the 2ZZ in a Celica but I understand the cam profile / mapping is slightly different in an Elise? Is there a specific engine to go for, or is that too much of an ambiguous question?
I would assume the Toyota engine to be the more reliable, potentially cheaper to maintain also?
Would it be wise to broaden the search (and the budget) to consider the various Ltd edition models, as being less likely to depreciate as much? Reason for this is both the red and white (anniversary?) and JPS editions are particularly appealing but command a premium.
Naturally I'm keen to encourage so that I can have a go!
I'd be very grateful for any similar experiences (even just of the situation, not necessarily with an Elise) and links to buyers guides - I'm working my way through Google results as we speak!
Thanks in advance
Thanks folks - I have been reading the buying guide and probably should have posted this in the Lotus sub-forum, so apologies for that...
With regards to the use of the car, it will be used as a second car (toy) and garaged Mon-Thursday, whilst making a fun Friday commuter car during the summer (hence wanting the optional soft top - although I understand most have this anyway).
There's a sense that the 122bhp model might feel underpowered, even as a toy, as it's unlikely (but not beyond the realms of possibility) that it would be used as a track car. I know this goes against the ethics of an Elise and I feel we really need to get him to test one to see what it's really like, as numbers on paper often mean little (especially given the weight).
As for budget, I suppose that's a bit of an open-ended question. The models we've looked at online vary from £12-18k, so anywhere in that region for the 'right' car I suppose. We haven't found a Type 72 for sale yet or a decent 'guide' to the other limited editions, so I suppose their price will be inflated due to their rarity.
The running costs will be accepted as an annual cost, most sources suggest £1000-1500pa put aside for maintenance etc, whilst insurance is likely to be the biggest upfront cost (although not horrific considering usage and dads' age).
The general consensus is that the Evora is massively more expensive, but I'm happy to be proved wrong. It's also less common, so it's not like there are many / any about that we can look at!
What is the red and white model called? I thought the Type 72 was the black & gold, not sure on this one?
I have first-hand experience of the Celica engine (2ZZ 190) and would try to steer him in that direction because the reviews sound like it wouldn't be lacking in the outright pace department, whilst it's also a chain-driven engine which is relatively bomb-proof (excuse the hateful expression!). The only model I think that has this is the 111R though, later referred to as just the 'R'. There's a lot of ambiguity on adverts too, I clicked on a nice looking example which just said '1.8' with 122bhp, but the pictures clearly showed the Toyota engine.
I'm thinking I'll get him down to Castle Lotus in Stansted at the weekend and hopefully get his bum in a seat and get a real taste for the ownership possibility.
Thanks for the help so far folks!
With regards to the use of the car, it will be used as a second car (toy) and garaged Mon-Thursday, whilst making a fun Friday commuter car during the summer (hence wanting the optional soft top - although I understand most have this anyway).
There's a sense that the 122bhp model might feel underpowered, even as a toy, as it's unlikely (but not beyond the realms of possibility) that it would be used as a track car. I know this goes against the ethics of an Elise and I feel we really need to get him to test one to see what it's really like, as numbers on paper often mean little (especially given the weight).
As for budget, I suppose that's a bit of an open-ended question. The models we've looked at online vary from £12-18k, so anywhere in that region for the 'right' car I suppose. We haven't found a Type 72 for sale yet or a decent 'guide' to the other limited editions, so I suppose their price will be inflated due to their rarity.
The running costs will be accepted as an annual cost, most sources suggest £1000-1500pa put aside for maintenance etc, whilst insurance is likely to be the biggest upfront cost (although not horrific considering usage and dads' age).
The general consensus is that the Evora is massively more expensive, but I'm happy to be proved wrong. It's also less common, so it's not like there are many / any about that we can look at!
What is the red and white model called? I thought the Type 72 was the black & gold, not sure on this one?
I have first-hand experience of the Celica engine (2ZZ 190) and would try to steer him in that direction because the reviews sound like it wouldn't be lacking in the outright pace department, whilst it's also a chain-driven engine which is relatively bomb-proof (excuse the hateful expression!). The only model I think that has this is the 111R though, later referred to as just the 'R'. There's a lot of ambiguity on adverts too, I clicked on a nice looking example which just said '1.8' with 122bhp, but the pictures clearly showed the Toyota engine.
I'm thinking I'll get him down to Castle Lotus in Stansted at the weekend and hopefully get his bum in a seat and get a real taste for the ownership possibility.
Thanks for the help so far folks!
Excellent, just read your little write-up and the costs you have recorded. So excluding fuel, the estimate for £1-1.5k per annum for running costs is probably quite conservative too.
Is the 70kg defecit just engine weight, or do 2zz-equipped Elise's typically have a/c too?
I think A/C would be favourable, but not essential. Especially if it came down to cost.
I notice yours is a Type 25 - is that the 135bhp vvt engine? I've read that the 160 k-series is very un-suited for road use, as is the earlier 190 Sport which is more of a track car.
Lots of reading to do!
Is the 70kg defecit just engine weight, or do 2zz-equipped Elise's typically have a/c too?
I think A/C would be favourable, but not essential. Especially if it came down to cost.
I notice yours is a Type 25 - is that the 135bhp vvt engine? I've read that the 160 k-series is very un-suited for road use, as is the earlier 190 Sport which is more of a track car.
Lots of reading to do!
Absolutely, this Saturday will be entirely 'feeling the water' and getting some good advice. Sure, it would be reassuring to buy such a car from a dealer but I respect what you're saying about the private market, which we will investigate once there is a better understanding of exactly what he is looking for of course!
I would want something like the VVC 160 as kambites' or a 111R with that 2zz engine which I thought was great in my old Celica. But dad might fancy something different; we'll have to see!
I would want something like the VVC 160 as kambites' or a 111R with that 2zz engine which I thought was great in my old Celica. But dad might fancy something different; we'll have to see!
Feirny said:
Mine's for sale in the classfieds, it's same as Kambite's but with a few extras bolted on. 
I finally found your ad after going on a pc (impossible in phone browser) Turns out yours was the car we were initially looking at! Good to know you are on here. If I can speed up this process of buying then I'll be sure to get in touch!
As for the daily driver, of late it's been diesels for work. First an Astra Sport 150, followed by an Insignia 160. Nowadays it's a Peugeot Tepee, converted for my mum who is permanently disabled. So any car in existence is going to feel much,much faster than that!
Thanks for all the help so far. I realise I haven't updated this, but I took my dad to the appointment at Castle Lotus and he thoroughly enjoyed it. He has driven an Exige before on a Silverstone track experience, but that was almost 10 years ago. The hardest part was actually getting in the damn thing. It was during this that he decided actually; a hardtop is not necessary, even though they look good. The car will be garaged and used on sunny days and Friday commutes, so the rag top will be fine.
I suppose I was shocked really at how 'cheap' some of the car felt, things like the wiring loom and rear light fitment, to the seat upholstery coming away at the sides of the base. Felt great though!
This specific car being an '04 "S". Sadly the gentleman showing us around the car couldn't tell us the engine spec, but it was a K series of some description! And the important thing is that dad returned from the test drive with a big smile across his face, so is now on a serious look for "his" Elise.
Feirny, your car is fantastic and I'm still plugging it away with dad. Sadly you're very far away from us for it to be something we can just come and look at once. One other concern was the exhaust modifications, but this was overcome when realising that probably 50% of those we looked at had breathing / exhaust mods! How loud is it, really? The longest journey it would ever undertake would be to Silverstone / Snetterton (1:15 hours). Is it deafening?
The search continues...
I suppose I was shocked really at how 'cheap' some of the car felt, things like the wiring loom and rear light fitment, to the seat upholstery coming away at the sides of the base. Felt great though!
This specific car being an '04 "S". Sadly the gentleman showing us around the car couldn't tell us the engine spec, but it was a K series of some description! And the important thing is that dad returned from the test drive with a big smile across his face, so is now on a serious look for "his" Elise.
Feirny, your car is fantastic and I'm still plugging it away with dad. Sadly you're very far away from us for it to be something we can just come and look at once. One other concern was the exhaust modifications, but this was overcome when realising that probably 50% of those we looked at had breathing / exhaust mods! How loud is it, really? The longest journey it would ever undertake would be to Silverstone / Snetterton (1:15 hours). Is it deafening?
The search continues...
Right, things are moving along at pace now.
I'm glad I encouraged dad to go and test drive one as it's catalysed this process now.
We went to go and look at this car the other day, what an absolute waste of time. After traveling for an hour we arrived at a crappy residential street in Tottenham where this 'dealers' stock occupied different parking spaces on tight street parking. Thinking we'd travelled the distance so we may as well have a look anyway, our fears were justified upon inspection. This car is f*cked. It had a big split in the front clam, a chunk of the bodywork behind the drivers side intake pod was missing, cobwebs all over, tatty soft top, wrecked wheels, lots of imperfections in the paintwork. Standing there, on the street next to (literally) a steaming pile of dog sh*t and an even bigger steaming pile of turd Lotus we decided not to even bother calling the dealer - not even to thank him for wasting our Saturday afternoon.
So, that says a lot for the more accomplished specialist dealers.
We're going back to Castle Lotus this weekend to view this Titanium 111S, which we looked at briefly last time around. It seems expensive but I suppose it's coming from a recognised dealer. The advert doesn't reveal much either.
I'm worried the old man will set his heart on this one when there could potentially be better cars out there for the same / less money (like Fierny's Type 25, which I've emailed him about). This is above his initial budget of 15-16k, and a dealer is less likely to negotiate down to that level. I've seen younger, better specced 111Rs sell for this kind of figure, which would surely be the better car.
That's another great source of frustration. Will Blackham Lotus. 99 adverts on Pistonheads and probably 2 cars in stock. What's the deal here? Very annoying seeing a great potential buy only to see further down the description the text * sold *. Surely that breaches some sort of rule? I suppose Pistonheads let the adverts continue rolling until they expire? Autotrader it is then.
I'm glad I encouraged dad to go and test drive one as it's catalysed this process now.
We went to go and look at this car the other day, what an absolute waste of time. After traveling for an hour we arrived at a crappy residential street in Tottenham where this 'dealers' stock occupied different parking spaces on tight street parking. Thinking we'd travelled the distance so we may as well have a look anyway, our fears were justified upon inspection. This car is f*cked. It had a big split in the front clam, a chunk of the bodywork behind the drivers side intake pod was missing, cobwebs all over, tatty soft top, wrecked wheels, lots of imperfections in the paintwork. Standing there, on the street next to (literally) a steaming pile of dog sh*t and an even bigger steaming pile of turd Lotus we decided not to even bother calling the dealer - not even to thank him for wasting our Saturday afternoon.
So, that says a lot for the more accomplished specialist dealers.
We're going back to Castle Lotus this weekend to view this Titanium 111S, which we looked at briefly last time around. It seems expensive but I suppose it's coming from a recognised dealer. The advert doesn't reveal much either.
I'm worried the old man will set his heart on this one when there could potentially be better cars out there for the same / less money (like Fierny's Type 25, which I've emailed him about). This is above his initial budget of 15-16k, and a dealer is less likely to negotiate down to that level. I've seen younger, better specced 111Rs sell for this kind of figure, which would surely be the better car.
That's another great source of frustration. Will Blackham Lotus. 99 adverts on Pistonheads and probably 2 cars in stock. What's the deal here? Very annoying seeing a great potential buy only to see further down the description the text * sold *. Surely that breaches some sort of rule? I suppose Pistonheads let the adverts continue rolling until they expire? Autotrader it is then.
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