S1 elise ceramic brakes...
Discussion
picture a motorway on a wet rainy day ,doing 70 mph and nothing out of the ordinary happening....
until you need to use your brakes as someone pulls out in front of you or there is a que ahead.....
At that point you find they are absolutly none existent and you re in for a bit of a shock.....
why...???
the water on them renders them inopperative and the secret to motorway driving in the wet.... dab them to clear the water as often as you can in order to feel safe !!!
Lotus showed no interest in this design fault , wouldnt even upgrade the useless cluch pipe they originally fitted the car with ...
and i for one would never want to own one again without a change at the top !!!!!
Lotus... you re elise sucks !!!
sorry, but that fault nearly ended my life....
and having run one as a daily for 4 years from 9000 to 45000 miles... emptied much of my wallet as it cost more to run than its initial cost, on repairs alone ....
got to say the s1 was rushed out from start to finish and although its a hoot to drive it s list of factory faults was/is appalling......
i might add the specialists who service these who you all know,even down in norfolk...
were expensive and on one occasion gave me a call to tell me they wer nt sure they had tightened some critical bolt....the noise i heard on the way back to them was obviosly a spanner or socket wrench exitting the engine bay !!!
R769 Jpf...
PS got to let those thinking of buying the good with the bad... bit one sided normally
and having run one as a daily for 4 years from 9000 to 45000 miles... emptied much of my wallet as it cost more to run than its initial cost, on repairs alone ....
got to say the s1 was rushed out from start to finish and although its a hoot to drive it s list of factory faults was/is appalling......
i might add the specialists who service these who you all know,even down in norfolk...
were expensive and on one occasion gave me a call to tell me they wer nt sure they had tightened some critical bolt....the noise i heard on the way back to them was obviosly a spanner or socket wrench exitting the engine bay !!!
R769 Jpf...
PS got to let those thinking of buying the good with the bad... bit one sided normally
Edited by mrdexter on Wednesday 31st March 13:04
Edited by mrdexter on Wednesday 31st March 13:06
they were the ones where the disc never wears or rusts, and "typically lotus" they stopped making the pads for them and everyone changed to normal discs and pads as there was no option but to !!!
i discovered this fault very early in ownership ( along with the cluch, the leaky roof,the window winders,the bolts that drop off the front and rear engine/boot lid( i have a special spanner for those and can fit them back in minutes,specialists take note!)the worn ball joints at 20,000 and rear tyres every 3000 despite never spinning the wheels)
come to think of it it was more appalling than i remembered earlier !!!
not to mention the snapped cambelt at 37000 or the worry of the kk head gasket !!!!
i discovered this fault very early in ownership ( along with the cluch, the leaky roof,the window winders,the bolts that drop off the front and rear engine/boot lid( i have a special spanner for those and can fit them back in minutes,specialists take note!)the worn ball joints at 20,000 and rear tyres every 3000 despite never spinning the wheels)
come to think of it it was more appalling than i remembered earlier !!!
not to mention the snapped cambelt at 37000 or the worry of the kk head gasket !!!!
Edited by mrdexter on Wednesday 31st March 13:36
sold it in 2003 so it was as new when i bought it..that might explain it was nt a 12 year old car at the time...
bought a 10,500 fiat 20vt t0 replace it having had a child and to be honest the fiat was faster and as much fun but not on the twisty s....more reliable too (shock) !!!
and i dont mind taking flack as i ve been thoroughly honest,and statistics show few of you will own an elise 4 years !!
Dont get me wrong , the driving experience was only second to a few and i did enjoy things when all was well....
mine was a 160 bell & covil conversion, originally on pirrelli s but i swapped to advans which gripped better and spoilt some of the fun and always felt it was under powered on these....
the obvious replacement is the far better ultima gtr...soon
bought a 10,500 fiat 20vt t0 replace it having had a child and to be honest the fiat was faster and as much fun but not on the twisty s....more reliable too (shock) !!!
and i dont mind taking flack as i ve been thoroughly honest,and statistics show few of you will own an elise 4 years !!
Dont get me wrong , the driving experience was only second to a few and i did enjoy things when all was well....
mine was a 160 bell & covil conversion, originally on pirrelli s but i swapped to advans which gripped better and spoilt some of the fun and always felt it was under powered on these....
the obvious replacement is the far better ultima gtr...soon
not a stockbroker...
nor a child..
i deal nicely from home for myself and i considder no brakes at 70 mph on a wet motorway a very scary proposition for a new owner as it was for myself...
i ve simply listed my faults and critisisms of lotus and with a football fans deluded support you seem to feel i should be critisized for pointing this out...
strange ..
nor a child..
i deal nicely from home for myself and i considder no brakes at 70 mph on a wet motorway a very scary proposition for a new owner as it was for myself...
i ve simply listed my faults and critisisms of lotus and with a football fans deluded support you seem to feel i should be critisized for pointing this out...
strange ..
lets just say back in the day...
when you could buy a detatched house for 70,000 in middle england it was a very expensive relative rarety and people old and young loved to stop and chat about it and on club events i was amazed at the age of those attending...
the majority at the seminars were men in their 60 s hands up asking for more power and all very gentlemanly!!!
how times change !!! as for troll,
water off a ducks back , and i d hazard a guess by shear evidence of nature in that critisism is to be ignored, you probably drive around in a bright colour, bother to remove the roof to be seen, and step out of your car with a smug look rather than satisfied one ....
when you could buy a detatched house for 70,000 in middle england it was a very expensive relative rarety and people old and young loved to stop and chat about it and on club events i was amazed at the age of those attending...
the majority at the seminars were men in their 60 s hands up asking for more power and all very gentlemanly!!!
how times change !!! as for troll,
water off a ducks back , and i d hazard a guess by shear evidence of nature in that critisism is to be ignored, you probably drive around in a bright colour, bother to remove the roof to be seen, and step out of your car with a smug look rather than satisfied one ....
was the lotus appointed garage that sold the car that used the brake technology described as ceramic ,as a selling point.!!!!
my driving skill is not in question, simply put wet brakes means no brakes whatsoever until you ve dabbed them a couple of times...
All the faults i ve mentioned are factual....
the tyres i used were the road advans and if i remember corectly the air pressure was 23 and 26 and if it drifted 1 out you could feel it on the handling the elise is so fine tuned (also little grip for first 2 miles).. most of my driving was country lanes which by nature take their toll on tyres and suspension (hence all bottom ball joints changed at 20,000 )
i liked the elise for its shear abiliy , but lotus were not helpfull nor was there much support from them back then.... many cars were spun off on corners such was the poor driving skill of owners who bought into a propper handling sports car and the tyres were reduced on the front to make this less likely...
Most will never drive it anywhere near its capabilities as they lack the skill to do so, should they try to on the public roads ,a small bump at speed is enough to unsettle the car and set the path in motion for a a 360 multiple spin....
3000 miles is genuinly all i got from my tyres and i always moaned about that !!!
mine was a titanium one and i always buy less conspicuous colours as its the driving experience i enjoy , not the pulics addoration !!!
good car to drive, but many pitfalls as a 40000 mile sub £10,000 car for some newbie on a tight budget...
my driving skill is not in question, simply put wet brakes means no brakes whatsoever until you ve dabbed them a couple of times...
All the faults i ve mentioned are factual....
the tyres i used were the road advans and if i remember corectly the air pressure was 23 and 26 and if it drifted 1 out you could feel it on the handling the elise is so fine tuned (also little grip for first 2 miles).. most of my driving was country lanes which by nature take their toll on tyres and suspension (hence all bottom ball joints changed at 20,000 )
i liked the elise for its shear abiliy , but lotus were not helpfull nor was there much support from them back then.... many cars were spun off on corners such was the poor driving skill of owners who bought into a propper handling sports car and the tyres were reduced on the front to make this less likely...
Most will never drive it anywhere near its capabilities as they lack the skill to do so, should they try to on the public roads ,a small bump at speed is enough to unsettle the car and set the path in motion for a a 360 multiple spin....
3000 miles is genuinly all i got from my tyres and i always moaned about that !!!
mine was a titanium one and i always buy less conspicuous colours as its the driving experience i enjoy , not the pulics addoration !!!
good car to drive, but many pitfalls as a 40000 mile sub £10,000 car for some newbie on a tight budget...
Rule 1 seems to be dont dish the s1 or it offends and will provoke insult...
i supose it is an affordable to all sports nowadays....
my car was meticulously maintained and shimmed several times in my ownership and obviously the tyres wore perfectly cimetrically ...plain simple wore and my specialist always wondered what i was doing with them,insistent they should do 10000 plus miles...
to be perfectly frank with you all, i enjoyed driving the elise, didnt enjoy the high maintenance costs,bolts dropping off/slackening, and the appaling wet weather driving inside the car but i assume lotus bothered to iron these defects out in the s2 ....
Take a balenced rational view of what i ve written and you ll realise my motive is probably to aid anyone contemplating the purchase of an s1 rather than offend anyone...
would i buy one again....on a budget of 10000 for a sports car and knowlageable of what to expect and a rigorous inspection...maybe, but on a wim.
i supose it is an affordable to all sports nowadays....
my car was meticulously maintained and shimmed several times in my ownership and obviously the tyres wore perfectly cimetrically ...plain simple wore and my specialist always wondered what i was doing with them,insistent they should do 10000 plus miles...
to be perfectly frank with you all, i enjoyed driving the elise, didnt enjoy the high maintenance costs,bolts dropping off/slackening, and the appaling wet weather driving inside the car but i assume lotus bothered to iron these defects out in the s2 ....
Take a balenced rational view of what i ve written and you ll realise my motive is probably to aid anyone contemplating the purchase of an s1 rather than offend anyone...
would i buy one again....on a budget of 10000 for a sports car and knowlageable of what to expect and a rigorous inspection...maybe, but on a wim.
Ah well...
i supose if you re elise is your god you will resort to insults should it be critisised,but having lived next door to someone who thought it acceptable to make noise throughout the night and have him tell me "he was here first"... along with my dealing with the public in their own homes ..
nothing in this world suprises me and if my grammer/ spelling offends , Handbags at ten paces !!!!
All thoughts of ,worn seats at 15000,pitted aluminium,steamy windows,loose undertray, window rubbers that go down with the windows, headgasket worry,worn tyres , inefective brakes,wet interiour,detatched bonnet and engine hood and trying to find a good specialist not to mention lemming elise lovers who dish my experience put well behind me....
i supose if you re elise is your god you will resort to insults should it be critisised,but having lived next door to someone who thought it acceptable to make noise throughout the night and have him tell me "he was here first"... along with my dealing with the public in their own homes ..
nothing in this world suprises me and if my grammer/ spelling offends , Handbags at ten paces !!!!
All thoughts of ,worn seats at 15000,pitted aluminium,steamy windows,loose undertray, window rubbers that go down with the windows, headgasket worry,worn tyres , inefective brakes,wet interiour,detatched bonnet and engine hood and trying to find a good specialist not to mention lemming elise lovers who dish my experience put well behind me....
not sure how any of this makes me a poor driver...
not sure how any of this makes an as new car with 12000 on the clock and all available upgrades and a fortune spent on maintenance a poor example...
one thing that has become apparent, the majority arent always right, and i m satisfied i ve given a honest appraisal of an s1 elise and the warts people are able to forgive it...
take note if you re buying !!!
not sure how any of this makes an as new car with 12000 on the clock and all available upgrades and a fortune spent on maintenance a poor example...
one thing that has become apparent, the majority arent always right, and i m satisfied i ve given a honest appraisal of an s1 elise and the warts people are able to forgive it...
take note if you re buying !!!
Interestingly none dispute the faults i ve listed with the s1 bar the mmc brakes which it appears few have any experience of use of....
many have blamed myself ,driving ability and grammar..
i ve listed facts, brought into question my experiance of lotus customer care and basically given a fair appraisil of a great car to drive being let down by the things i mention and the dangerous nature of wet mmc brakes which you tend to forget ... after a car wash or cruising at 70 on the motorway..
not sure why so much importance has been attached to the fact i left it 7 years, but in the market for a new car and a friend having bought an s2,i d have thought it obvious the past cars come to mind.... and its always good to have a lively debate...
Dust off your dashboards gentlemen !!
many have blamed myself ,driving ability and grammar..
i ve listed facts, brought into question my experiance of lotus customer care and basically given a fair appraisil of a great car to drive being let down by the things i mention and the dangerous nature of wet mmc brakes which you tend to forget ... after a car wash or cruising at 70 on the motorway..
not sure why so much importance has been attached to the fact i left it 7 years, but in the market for a new car and a friend having bought an s2,i d have thought it obvious the past cars come to mind.... and its always good to have a lively debate...
Dust off your dashboards gentlemen !!
Sam_68 said:
mrdexter said:
...mmc brakes which it appears few have any experience of use of....
I have experience of MMC brakes. My first S1 had them, my second didn't. If (or more likely when) I decide to buy another S1, MMC brakes will be one of the features I'll be trying to hunt down.Yes, if you had been doing steady high speeds on a streaming wet motorway without touching the brakes, you needed to dab them before they became effective. Many performance brake pads have similar characteristics: it's part of the price you pay for having brakes that remain consistent once they get up to working temperature.
...But if you're driving at sustained high speed on a streaming wet motorway and you've left youself so little room that you need instant full bite from your brakes, then you're driving like a
and you deserve to die. Along with the lift-off oversteer if you're completely incompetent at dealing with bends, you can think of it as Lotus' little contribution to human evolution. Sadly, they failed to get you, but full credit to them for trying...
now picture a titanium elise in rain on a soaked motorway doing a steady 70 ,in the middle lane coming up gently behind a lorry whilst being overtaken by some one in the outside lane... Some numpty in the inside lane desides i m invisible and pulls directly infront...
AND YOU VE NO BRAKES...nothing untill you ve dabbed them a couple of times...
maybe the intelligent amongst you will realise the danger in this and accept this point....
TIPPER said:
mrdexter said:
Sam_68 said:
mrdexter said:
...mmc brakes which it appears few have any experience of use of....
I have experience of MMC brakes. My first S1 had them, my second didn't. If (or more likely when) I decide to buy another S1, MMC brakes will be one of the features I'll be trying to hunt down.Yes, if you had been doing steady high speeds on a streaming wet motorway without touching the brakes, you needed to dab them before they became effective. Many performance brake pads have similar characteristics: it's part of the price you pay for having brakes that remain consistent once they get up to working temperature.
...But if you're driving at sustained high speed on a streaming wet motorway and you've left youself so little room that you need instant full bite from your brakes, then you're driving like a
and you deserve to die. Along with the lift-off oversteer if you're completely incompetent at dealing with bends, you can think of it as Lotus' little contribution to human evolution. Sadly, they failed to get you, but full credit to them for trying...
now picture a titanium elise in rain on a soaked motorway doing a steady 70 ,in the middle lane coming up gently behind a lorry whilst being overtaken by some one in the outside lane... Some numpty in the inside lane desides i m invisible and pulls directly infront...
AND YOU VE NO BRAKES...nothing untill you ve dabbed them a couple of times...
maybe the intelligent amongst you will realise the danger in this and accept this point....
Your brakes didsn't fail; you're here to tell the tale so they did their job.
You had a scary moment because you failed to anticipate a possible danger. As you suggest your car was not the most visible of colours in murky conditions (are you going to blame your decision to buy a grey car on Lotus too (perhaps they shouldn't have sold the car in that colour?) so you should have been making plenty of allowance for that.
It seems to me that you're seeking to sensationalise a well know feature of the MMC brakes at a time when one of the worlds major car manufacturers (Toyota) has its hands full of litigation issues from the land of litigation. Litigation brought on because a man chose to make a phone call rather than put his car in neutral (he couldn't drive). Crazy.
use your loaf, by your own words in the wet you ve no brakes enless you dab them...
A joke to blame my driving rather than the manufacturer !!!
lighten up !!
interesting its mentioned the police no longer considder an accident an accident and rather someone is to blame....i agreed with that many years but i too was wrong...
At a tee junction (night/no street lighting) looking to the right which had a sweeping bend there was a car approaching and plenty of room to pull out safely...
what stopped me was one of his lights appeared slightly larger than the other...
Had i pulled out, i d have probably killed the MOTORBIKE rider who s light was lined up with the cars right hand headlight and creating the optical illusion of being part of the car despite being way infront of it...
ps . i think you ll find if someone pulls out infront of you on a motorway leaving you little time to brake to avoid them,they might actually be at fault !
dont think i m a bad driver in that i have full no claims on 3 policies ...
interesting its mentioned the police no longer considder an accident an accident and rather someone is to blame....i agreed with that many years but i too was wrong...
At a tee junction (night/no street lighting) looking to the right which had a sweeping bend there was a car approaching and plenty of room to pull out safely...
what stopped me was one of his lights appeared slightly larger than the other...
Had i pulled out, i d have probably killed the MOTORBIKE rider who s light was lined up with the cars right hand headlight and creating the optical illusion of being part of the car despite being way infront of it...
ps . i think you ll find if someone pulls out infront of you on a motorway leaving you little time to brake to avoid them,they might actually be at fault !
dont think i m a bad driver in that i have full no claims on 3 policies ...
Edited by mrdexter on Saturday 3rd April 10:40
you ve all been really helpful ...
i dont mind being called a troll, nor the implication of my ignorace due to my poor spelling and gramma (probably due to the fact i ve lived in several countries and speak several languages,none of which were taught at school which cost a packet in its day)...
enlightened, i now know i will not get the facts from a forum but the best help has been my deciding on a bright colour for the new car so i m seen and safe, rather than the less conspicuous dark colours which suits my nature...
A genuine thanks for all you re input
i dont mind being called a troll, nor the implication of my ignorace due to my poor spelling and gramma (probably due to the fact i ve lived in several countries and speak several languages,none of which were taught at school which cost a packet in its day)...
enlightened, i now know i will not get the facts from a forum but the best help has been my deciding on a bright colour for the new car so i m seen and safe, rather than the less conspicuous dark colours which suits my nature...
A genuine thanks for all you re input
Edited by mrdexter on Saturday 3rd April 17:14
Edited by mrdexter on Saturday 3rd April 17:16
i can accept that and i m sure you re right in remembering my test drive in an early s2 before i bought the s1 ....to be honest, i did nt want to put that much money into a car back then as few were available second hand...
And after all , it s the way the elise drove thats pointed me in the direction of the ultima gtr. Nothing can prepare you for the agility , power and braking and its the natural progression for me...
And after all , it s the way the elise drove thats pointed me in the direction of the ultima gtr. Nothing can prepare you for the agility , power and braking and its the natural progression for me...
Edited by mrdexter on Saturday 3rd April 19:54
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