Wiring tweeters
Discussion
Just installed a new head unit, amp and speakers and I am finding the tweeters are way too bright for my liking.
I have messed about with the graphic eq on the head unit but it all just gets a bit messy.
So, I have only used two channels from the power amp, and the supplied crossovers to each speaker, so with that in mind, could I connect another pair of rca cables from the rear lo level outlet in the head unit to the amp, and run the tweeters direct from channels three and four still using their own crossovers which would then enable me to tune the volume down on the gain for the tweeters and make them a little less harsh?
Amp is a Hertz hmp4d with audison apk165p components.
I have messed about with the graphic eq on the head unit but it all just gets a bit messy.
So, I have only used two channels from the power amp, and the supplied crossovers to each speaker, so with that in mind, could I connect another pair of rca cables from the rear lo level outlet in the head unit to the amp, and run the tweeters direct from channels three and four still using their own crossovers which would then enable me to tune the volume down on the gain for the tweeters and make them a little less harsh?
Amp is a Hertz hmp4d with audison apk165p components.
Sorry guys didnt spot the replies for some reason.
So, i did as i was thinking and connected the tweeters direct to the rear outputs on the amp, and have the gain set to almost minimum, and this has certainly helped a lot, however i also have the problem of it all sounding 'grainy' for want of a better word, even at lowish volumes. Gain for the fronts is just under halfway, so not maxing anything out as far as i can tell.
Anyway, head unit is a Pioneer EVO64DAB, and the tweeters are set to 0db on the crossover.
Someone suggested to bin the supplied cross overs and use the amp xover settings direct and then adding a DSP to fine tune evrything.
The head unit does have a kind DSP as it has loads of settings (xover, time alignment, db for each speaker) so would this achieve the same as a standalone DSP?
So, i did as i was thinking and connected the tweeters direct to the rear outputs on the amp, and have the gain set to almost minimum, and this has certainly helped a lot, however i also have the problem of it all sounding 'grainy' for want of a better word, even at lowish volumes. Gain for the fronts is just under halfway, so not maxing anything out as far as i can tell.
Anyway, head unit is a Pioneer EVO64DAB, and the tweeters are set to 0db on the crossover.
Someone suggested to bin the supplied cross overs and use the amp xover settings direct and then adding a DSP to fine tune evrything.
The head unit does have a kind DSP as it has loads of settings (xover, time alignment, db for each speaker) so would this achieve the same as a standalone DSP?
TEKNOPUG said:
OP, that head unit has all the functionality you need; 3 way active mode, filters, time alignment, EQ etc.
You basically wire the speakers and amps to the hu, with out any passive xovers and all settings off in the amp and set it all up via the hu.
Your choice of amp is the biggest issue. It's 4 X 50w but the tweeters don't need anything like that much power to run and the mids would really benefit from more. Typically people use a separate amp for high, mid and low although you can get asymmetric multi channel amps.
With your current setup, you need to RCA front from HU to amp front. This will be for your tweeters. RCA rear from HU to amp rear. This will be for your mids. Wire the speakers to the amp accordingly, without the xovers. Set the HU to 3 way active.
Then you set the xover point for the tweeters (there will be the frequency range of the speakers and their current xover settings in their technical details) and the same for the mids. You can play about with those and I can give you some settings to try.
Then set the time alignment to get all speakers blended front and centre. There is probably an auto EQ function with a microphone to get you started?
Finally tweak the gains and EQ to get it how you like. It's not hard, you just need to spend some time playing around with it, as long as you do the basics in the right order.
It will hugely benefit from having a separate sub speaker, even if you don't think you listen to loud or bassy music
Finally, it will only sound as good as the hardware installation....
Fantastic thanks for the explanation!You basically wire the speakers and amps to the hu, with out any passive xovers and all settings off in the amp and set it all up via the hu.
Your choice of amp is the biggest issue. It's 4 X 50w but the tweeters don't need anything like that much power to run and the mids would really benefit from more. Typically people use a separate amp for high, mid and low although you can get asymmetric multi channel amps.
With your current setup, you need to RCA front from HU to amp front. This will be for your tweeters. RCA rear from HU to amp rear. This will be for your mids. Wire the speakers to the amp accordingly, without the xovers. Set the HU to 3 way active.
Then you set the xover point for the tweeters (there will be the frequency range of the speakers and their current xover settings in their technical details) and the same for the mids. You can play about with those and I can give you some settings to try.
Then set the time alignment to get all speakers blended front and centre. There is probably an auto EQ function with a microphone to get you started?
Finally tweak the gains and EQ to get it how you like. It's not hard, you just need to spend some time playing around with it, as long as you do the basics in the right order.
It will hugely benefit from having a separate sub speaker, even if you don't think you listen to loud or bassy music
Finally, it will only sound as good as the hardware installation....
In all honesty I was only ever going to use the amp as a two channel but because the top end was so bright, the only way I thought I could get the level down was to use the rear outputs on the amp to give me greater control, which it does to a point!
Having said that, i am happy to change it to something else with a more powerful 4 channel amp depending on costs!
Yes that’s all up and running.
Could I run the tweeters direct from the head unit using the Hpf on the head unit?
Doing a bit of diggjng and some are of the opinion that this would possible cause an imbalance with over sound?
At least that way it would give back the 150w over 2 channels on the amp for the speakers?
Or am I talking rubbish?
Could I run the tweeters direct from the head unit using the Hpf on the head unit?
Doing a bit of diggjng and some are of the opinion that this would possible cause an imbalance with over sound?
At least that way it would give back the 150w over 2 channels on the amp for the speakers?
Or am I talking rubbish?
Ok.
No not yet as it involves a bit of dash trim and door panel removal.
Probably easier with the tweeters which I might do in one go first and then get to the doors soon after.
Hopefully I’ll get to it over the next day or so!
Do you have any recommendations on where to start with the settings?
No not yet as it involves a bit of dash trim and door panel removal.
Probably easier with the tweeters which I might do in one go first and then get to the doors soon after.
Hopefully I’ll get to it over the next day or so!
Do you have any recommendations on where to start with the settings?
TEKNOPUG said:
Mids LPF = 2Khz
Mids HPF = You can go as low as you like as you have no sub although the speakers only play down to 50hz. If you feel that they have too much bass and the doors are rattling, raise the Hz number. I had my 6.5" Audison mids @ 125hz, but I was running a sub also.
Highs HPF = 3.15Khz
6db cut-off for all
I noticed that the supplied cut-off for both crossovers was 4Khz. Which would mean that you would get a spike in volume at that frequency, which would explain why the tweeters sounded overly loud/bright.
I couldn't see anything in the documentation as to what frequencies you can crossover, so you may not have 2Khz and 3.15Khz. Look for frequencies close to those and try to leave ~ 1Khz gap.
Thanks for that.Mids HPF = You can go as low as you like as you have no sub although the speakers only play down to 50hz. If you feel that they have too much bass and the doors are rattling, raise the Hz number. I had my 6.5" Audison mids @ 125hz, but I was running a sub also.
Highs HPF = 3.15Khz
6db cut-off for all
I noticed that the supplied cut-off for both crossovers was 4Khz. Which would mean that you would get a spike in volume at that frequency, which would explain why the tweeters sounded overly loud/bright.
I couldn't see anything in the documentation as to what frequencies you can crossover, so you may not have 2Khz and 3.15Khz. Look for frequencies close to those and try to leave ~ 1Khz gap.
But from what I can see I don’t have any settings to enable 3 way active on the head unit to enable the high and low pf on the mids to be adjusted. I have just one setting for that which is HPF on with adjustments or off.
Also, I see no way of setting the tweeters that high. The head unit only goes as high as 250hz.
I have also turned the gain up a tad on the amp for the mids and it seems to have lost some of its grainy sound so wondering if the speakers were under powered.
What I have discovered recently after watching a few videos is that adjusting one frequency can have quite an impact on neighbouring ones.
So, with the above in mind and the lack of adjustment for the tweeters I’m a bit concerned about removing the crossover that is at 4khz as I just can’t get anywhere near that and I am bit concerned about damaging them!
Fantastic thanks.
I think I’m going to set some time to do it all in one hit I think.
Also, I think some of the problem is I do listen to the radio quite a bit as well so I guess a good system is going to make a poor source sound even worse, especially when I am used to reasonably good factory fit systems in the past.
I think I’m going to set some time to do it all in one hit I think.
Also, I think some of the problem is I do listen to the radio quite a bit as well so I guess a good system is going to make a poor source sound even worse, especially when I am used to reasonably good factory fit systems in the past.
Ok slight update,
I haven't managed to get chance to do the crossovers on the mids but i had a spare half and hour and removed them from the tweeters and i amazed at the difference even just doing those makes.
Much clearer and certainly a lot less harsh, even without setting them up properly.
I am determined to get the doors done by/on this weekend as the weather is looking better so looking forward to seeing what difference that makes overall.
I spoke to another guy and he also suggested an Audison Bit10 DSP but i am really trying not to spend too much more!
I haven't managed to get chance to do the crossovers on the mids but i had a spare half and hour and removed them from the tweeters and i amazed at the difference even just doing those makes.
Much clearer and certainly a lot less harsh, even without setting them up properly.
I am determined to get the doors done by/on this weekend as the weather is looking better so looking forward to seeing what difference that makes overall.
I spoke to another guy and he also suggested an Audison Bit10 DSP but i am really trying not to spend too much more!
Yes, i forgot to mention that i had set it up in network mode first, turned the highs right down on the amp, powered up and set the crossovers as per your suggestions.
And i am indeed doing it all arse about face, mainly due to time etc!
Is it normal for the high gain to be at about a quarter?
I appreciate that i still need to set it up properly once the other crossovers have been removed, but for now even at this setting they do seem to over power everything else a bit.
And i am indeed doing it all arse about face, mainly due to time etc!
Is it normal for the high gain to be at about a quarter?
I appreciate that i still need to set it up properly once the other crossovers have been removed, but for now even at this setting they do seem to over power everything else a bit.
TEKNOPUG said:
Gain is totally dependent upon the combination of hu, amp and speaker. Tweeters need little power to drive them, so maybe back the gain off for now and adjust if needed once you have the mids sorted?
Or just lower all the frequencies above 3.15k or whatever you have the HPF set via the EQ on the HU.
I think the HPF is actually set at 4k so i might tweak it to 5ish.Or just lower all the frequencies above 3.15k or whatever you have the HPF set via the EQ on the HU.
Edited by TEKNOPUG on Wednesday 15th November 21:06
I was going to get the door panels off this afternoon but the forecast is crap again for today.
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