4 wheel drive & the real world

[Pixelpeep]

How much difference does 4wd make in the real world for general day to day getting about and making progress?

I have heard many a horror story about RWD and snow and have personal experience of the issues of trying to put decent power down in a FWD car so in choosing a 'keeper' should 4wd be a must have, a nice to have or a no point to have.

Reason i ask is because i am looking at next car purchase and if i can bin the need for 4wd my options get a lot cheaper!

Basically the A45 and the RS3 tick all of my boxes except price, the m135i ticks all of them except 4wd so can someone give me real world experiences to give me an idea.

I have never driven a powerful RWD car which also concerns me slightly but i can't ignore the price difference.

Help!

[Pixelpeep]

ok, i'm liking what i am hearing so far..

this is going to be an odd question and there are tons of variables i understand. but..

on a wet road, slight incline t junction, pulling out and doing a right in a steady flow of both direction traffic what is likely to give me more traction

my current FWD mapped astra VXR (old shape with no LSD)

or

a BMW m135i

(considering same makes of tyre, same condition of car, same driver etc)

[Pixelpeep]

im off work tomorrow. i'm thinking a trip to a BMW dealership and a test drive is in order.

A45 is £10k more expensive and the ONLY thing it has over the bmw is the drive train.

Genuinely quite excited. Thank you all for your input.

[Pixelpeep]

Now - what's the catch with this?! > http://www.gateway2lease.com/bmw_m135i_leasing.php...

£287 a month Inc vat with £2k down?!

[Pixelpeep]

GHW said:

Having owned both a 280bhp Subaru (albeit a Legacy GTB and not an Impreza STi) and currently owning a M135i, I think I'm qualified to comment here.

The BMW has more power, better power delivery, more accomplished suspension and mega-sticky cup tyres (vs. non-cup tyres as standard on the Subaru). On a typical Welsh B-road like this one (which I've driven many times), the BMW has plenty of room to have the occasional extra wiggle, and enough straight lines to make up any ground lost on the super-tight nadgery bits (even in the wet).

On a tighter, single-track C/D road with lots of mud and a broken surface, the Subaru would take the lead, but you'd be taking some uncomfortable risks to prove it...

thank you

[Pixelpeep]

does track and motorsport have any bearing on 'real world' experiences though?

i spend 100% of my time on UK roads, 80% on non motorway roads.

[Pixelpeep]

Maybe Formula One is the ultimate proof that driver skill will always be better than the difference 4wd can make - or they would be AWD too?

[Pixelpeep]

[Pixelpeep]

With all these part time 4WD systems i don't get why they can't set them up RWD then kick the fronts in when required rather than always FWD by default :/

[Pixelpeep]

Scuffers said:

depends on what they were based on,

Golf/A3 are all FWD platforms bodged to make them 4WD (Haldex)

cars that were designed from the start to be 4WD tend to use better systems.

so, the RS3 is haldex ?

[Pixelpeep]

Krikkit said:

Yes, but the more modern systems electronically control the torque split. Originally they needed wheel slip for more than 2-5% of the torque to be transmitted to the rear, now they usually split around 50/50 in spirited driving.

Older systems like the CRV kind of thing?

[Pixelpeep]

The Wookie said:

I'd probably save myself 10k and buy a Focus ST or similar.

i have 'similar' now... !

i wouldn't bin the vxr for an ST as i wouldn't consider it a step up, just sideways. not literally.

[Pixelpeep]

i've just heard a rumour they do the m135i with xDrive !

that could change EVERYTHING!!!

[Pixelpeep]

Well, in true female style the OH has thrown a massive spanner in the works.

'There is no way we are getting a BMW - all BMW drivers are cocks.'

She actually suggested the new, 300hp S3 - not a bad shout all things considered.

[Pixelpeep]

It's funny - in the wet for short journeys i'll take a low powered car any day. much more fun and predictable - sliding around in something with 155 tyres at low speeds but in the dry i love the VXR and will use any excuse to go for a drive.

So maybe the 'message' here is

lower power car, 2wd for fun
higher powered car, 4wd for fun and safety

?

[Pixelpeep]

prg123 said:

Might be worth looking at this......

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/winter-tyres-vs...

- Pete

Really interesting video

[Pixelpeep]

so, could it be argued that for the general, non driving gods, 4WD is actually more dangerous in the snow because people can go faster than a 2WD car but cant hope to scrub off the speed?

This means that there will be 4WD cars going faster than they would in a 2WD in situations where the braking isn't anywhere as superior as they would be thinking?

[Pixelpeep]

creampuff said:

I'm guessing the BMW. I'd be inclined to press the DTC - or "direct to cock" as Mrs Puff calls it - button to allow a bit of wheel spin, however I wouldn't turn it all the way off.

Interesting coin of phrase, Mrs Peep (and not bow) has vito'd the BMW, using the term cock also.

She has offered up the new 300hp Audi S3 in the 5 door sportback configuration - i think that's a good shout, much better on fuel than the RS3 and noticeably cheaper than the A45. Just trying to get a weekend where we are both free so we can get a test drive booked.

[Pixelpeep]

sleep envy said:

Indeed, it's a speed limit not a target.

If you are travelling at a certain speed which you deem sensible in a 2wd car, irrespective of the number on the speedo or the sign on the road, why would you want to go faster?

You've already determined that your current speed is appropriate for the conditions.

Maybe its the ability to get to that desired speed without the flashing lights on your dash causing an epileptic fit?