How to pre-empt double apex bends?

[Haltamer]

Driving around Wales, I've been caught out a little by some double apexes - Long sweeping bend followed by short straight or immediate tightening, with no warning that I've been picking up on.

Usually they come with a reasonable amount of <<'s, and a helping of Anti-skid on more primary roads, but on backroads, they can be poorly sighted - Hence I find myself exiting the sweeping section at a reasonable speed, then having to chuck out lots of anchors / a little bit of poo to take the tighter second corner.

The issue seems to stem from the lack of visibility -

Even emerging from the initial bend in position for best visibility into the next bend (width of oncoming traffic allowing), I'm only left with a very short straight in which to bring speed down for the second bend.

Mostly, to preserve some aspect of smoothness, I've just been carrying the braking into the tighter bend - Heavy on the inbound straight, then tapering oooooooooff the brakes ( ) and onto the accelerator just as I reach the secondary apex.

Opinions / advice on approach?

[Haltamer]

Hmm, I think I'm coming on to the power a little early.

As I'm coming out of the first bend as pictured above, I'd be going for the short straight as the limit point extends - Chasing the limit point a little too hard, as it's then going to nill for the tight bend.
I'll have an experiment with coming on to power out a little later tomorrow.

I would say that my present approach leaves me enough time to come to a halt for a stationary obstacle, holding a steady speed for the limit point, though I'd say that I'm usually on the upper end of allowable speed through the corner - If there was a felled tree etc. It would be all of the brakes.

Edited by Haltamer on Thursday 4th October 23:46

[Haltamer]

Welshbeef said:

I like taking advice/guidance from a great driver Mr Colin McRae.


“If in doubt FLAT OUT” RIP

I saw a nice shipwreck on the Black mountain pass today; Tight right hander, marked by reflector poles - Sadly about 3 of them had been killed in action, and one was wearing a suzuki bumper hat.

Probably the most effective "SLOW" warning is a decent size hole in the hedge / guardrail and debris

I walked back up the (very foggy) hill to grab a piece to show to a friend who can be overenthusiastic, and as a nice souvenir, and could see that the debris was strewn all the way down the hill - Any actual wreck was either gone or concealed by fog.

If the red suzuki part belongs to anyone here, I'd be happy to arrange it's return

[Haltamer]

Tried a nice road with some switchbacks taking a lower entry speed and not coming on to the power with so much enthusiasm, and things smoothed out nicely - Probably saved a sport bike, too, who was doing a classic MotoGP Lean on the centerline around one bend - Gave me some more margin to make room so he didn't embed his face in the headlight / wing.

[Haltamer]

S. Gonzales Esq. said:

Sounds like you're either not observing as well as you could, or are getting on the gas too much before you have sufficient view. Looking but not really seeing is surprisingly common, as is unjustified optimism about how severe the next bend is going to be.

This is the kind of thing that's much easier to diagnose in the car though. A co-driver that's experienced enough to spot what's going on will be able to give you the kind of insight that is very hard to get on your own.

A co driver is harder to find, hence the internet serving in it's place

As above, after giving it some thought and adjustment I'd say you're correct - I'm coming on with too much power when the limit point begins to creep, without allowing it time for the view to fully open. Getting carried away with the nice roads!

I do look forward to the next opportunity to get some instructed time!

[Haltamer]

S. Gonzales Esq. said:

Whereabouts in the country are you?

South East; Essex area (Rainham) - Chelmsford is the closest bet for IAM, But that's still a reasonable way to go from where I am.

[Haltamer]

S. Gonzales Esq. said:

That's a bit far East for me to offer a drive, but I know there are some active IAM groups in the area.

I'd take you up on the offer if I was in the region!


I'll see about trying out some of the local groups, It's something I've been meaning to do for a while.

[Haltamer]

akirk said:

If you are happy to drive from Essex to Wales to enjoy the roads - you will enjoy them even more if you spend a bit of time driving to Chelmsford for some learning

if you are interested in driving - really worth pushing yourself to improve...
double bends / confusing bends / just bends really - not taught in the basic L test, so there is lots that can help
if you are 26 and under next summer you may find that the young drivers day is run again by the High Performance Course: http://www.high-performance-course.com/ (someone usually posts on here - sometimes me ) and amongst other content a chunk of that day is about dealing with bends...

I was there for the day earlier this year!
About ready for another one now, Glad to hear that there's another - I'll get booked in, May even entice some friends!

Oxford, Wales, Germany, I'm ticking them off the list - But Chelmsford is just a bit too far I'm sure without anything to do in the weekends I can get some time penned in over winter.

[Haltamer]

akirk said:

Young Driver's Day is not usually confirmed until nearer the time - so keep an eye out for announcements... (I was also there this year - with the M5)

If you feel ready for another such day, then def. don't do one day a year, go and sign up with IAM or RoSPA

I think I spoke to you over bacon rolls in the morning!
I'll have a look and see what's available. I've been looking at booking in for some carlimits & similar in the mean time, too.