Who's Who: Start Here.

[Don]

To help out people looking for answers to questions and contributors to the Forum I thought that a thread with [i]a[/i] post from each contributor and something about their driving background would be useful.

So I'll start:

"Don".

IAM pass a few years ago.

Then did RoSPA and got a "Gold".

I "Observe" (instruct) for the IAM and am usually good for any explanations people need.

I lecture for the local group - we do two courses a year open to the public - not just new IAM joiners.

How's that?

Sound off the rest of you!

[Don]

OK - thread hijack.

So.

Just because one has O level Maths and it means you can do arithmetic and geometry and so on does it mean there is no benefit in getting an A level?

After all you can have tons of experience at arithmetic and geometry, be really good at them, do wonderful joinery and building and all sort of great things with them. Does that mean there's no benefit in the A level?

Does that mean people with the A level "Certificate" shouldn't be allowed to teach maths because its a bit poncey and all you could ever need is O level so why not get people with O level to teach it?



See how it ridiculous it sounds? Although I guarantee there are those out there who think its true...not one of 'em could have got as far as E=mc2 let alone the host of other useful stuff that's not as advanced!

Getting the piece of paper is irrelevant anyway. Its getting the respect of your fellows and reaching the standard they deem "Advanced".

If you compare an IAM test to an A level its not far off in the analogy as, of course, you can go far, far beyond it - learning more and more. "Degree"s and "Doctorate's" in driving. And guess what. When you get those things you even get a CERTIFICATE to say you've done 'em - mainly for you to feel proud of and keep at home - there again you never know when an employer might want you to prove you have A level Maths - or a HGV licence - or even the RoSPA Gold you claim to have.

FFS. What a closed minded attitude.

So. Finally a forum in which we discuss motoring matters of driving skills and techniques. And we get a load of posts by people who want to take a pop at "elitist" groups who issue CERTIFICATES for driving skills achievement. Maybe because they don't have them themselves?

I give up. I really do.

You want to criticise? Do it from a position of knowledge. You just don't "get it"? Well do the course. Show how easy it is to PASS. Show me the CERTIFICATE. And you can tell me how much was bollox and how much wasn't. And THEN I'll LISTEN!

[Don]

JonRB said:

GreenV8S said: A more constructive way of looking at it is whether you still have anything to learn. I like to think that I'm a better driver this year than I was last year, it would be very depressing to think that I had nothing more to learn and my driving was never going to improve beyond this point. I think that talking to other people who take an active interest in driving skills is one of the best ways to learn. I don't know what I don't know, but the more people I listen to the more likely I am to find out. My sentiments exactly.

And mine! at GreenV8S

[Don]

bmw114 said:

Don you have got a very short fuse, take your tests, get your certificates,if it makes you happy thats all that matters.

Against my better judgement I decided to review this thread again.

But OK. You are actually right. I'm afraid I vented my spleen a bit because your post happened at a time when we'd just a load of other posts varying in degrees of helpfulness, frankly. So I apologise for being short with you...your post certainly did not deserve my response by itself.

bmw114 said:

It probably is`nt you that has a pop at all truck drivers and if all drivers were as well trained as you the roads would be a safer place but i get the impression that IAM ask the questions and then say they know best because of the certificate.

There may be the odd pillock in the IAM who believe they know better than anyone and everyone else because they got a qualification twenty years ago! Most aren't like that, I assure you. But when one has put in as much time and effort as I have into the IAM I'm afraid when people are dismissisve of it I always question "why?".

bmw114 said:

Can i ask you 2 questions. I will give you 2 instances that happened to me,and you tell me what you would have done and if i did the same thing as you then do we have mutual respect even though i don`t have the certificate and you do. Let me know and i`ll come back to you.

Sure you can...on another thread: Something like "Two Driving Incidents: How would *you* handle them." Then you can compare responses from people against what you did and decide whether there's any merit in what others think - not just me - I'm just one guy. Maybe I'd be "right" and may I'd be "wrong" - the strength of the IAM isn't in just one member - its in the movement as a whole making a small improvement in the driving of a great many (we wish!) - making the road system just that little bit safer overall.

Here's a general principle though: What the IAM teach is the "System of Car Control". Its purpose is to ensure the right thing is done at the right time - to one major purpose: To create "time to react". The idea is that incidents never happen in the first place. Its the art of spotting the potential of a dangerous situation and being somewhere else.

I measure my success not in terms of "close shaves avoided" - but the number of "close shaves I didn't have". How do I know there were any? Well I don't. I can't. All I can do is count how long its been since there was one.

Thankfully its been a while! But it not like it couldn't happen again anytime soon - it could. All I'm trying to do is reduce the chances.

Just like you - I'll bet. Yes IAM training helps. I'd be a fool if I said experience didn't help too - it most certainly does. I will say this - no amount of experience makes up for a lack of knowledge. Just as no amount of knowledge makes up for a lack of experience...

[Don]

adrianmugridge said:

Have you not contridicted yourself ? It might reduce the chaces of being shunted in to the oncoming traffic but it leads to a less than smooth & quicker getaway as you have to fiddle with the parking brake before moving off.

No he didn't. And does it really?

Most cars are fitted with a "handbrake". Very useful for holding the car still whilst you have the clutch in and first gear engaged ready for a quick getaway.

Of course you have to get to that point...which is why "first on the roll" is a useful technique - which most of us have worked out through sheer experience - but if someone doesn't know hwo to do it then they'd be taught on an IAM course...or should be anyway.

Some cars - like most Mercedes, and some Toyotas (e.g. Prius) - are fitted with a "Parking Brake". Generally its foot operated. Damn PITA thing. There's little for it with one of those other than to avoid using it as much as possible as far as I can see....

adrianmugridge said:

Also, I get told to push the button in when I apply the brake. What for ? I'm told it's to stop the racket wearing out but a) Who's ever heard of the racket wearing out ? and b) it's my car, so I can do with it as I please.

a) They do. b) Nice. Go ahead.

If you've got a Company car go ahead and enjoy wearing your ratchet out. Yes it takes a long time. So what? Do you deliberately "clutch ride" to hold the car still on hills? Wearing the clutch out takes a long time too...

I understand "Gone" more and more these days...

[Don]

adrianmugridge said:

I generally do wait in 1st with my foot on the clucth. But, I just put my other foot on the brake pedal and don't bother with the handbrake. It's quicker to move my foot from the brake to the accelerator than to take the handbrake off.

OK. I disagree on the handbrake and speed, though. Using the handbrake in this situation allows you to ensure the car does not "roll" (e.g. backwards) whilst pulling away. In no way does this slow down my getaway...I reckon. In the L test if your car rolls out of gear, and particularly backwards, its a fail. Its a fail in the IAM test too. This is NOT to say that a pull away cannot be done without the handbrake - it clearly can. And if you have one of those "foot operated parking brakes" there's nothing else for it. Whether or not you use the handbrake is up to you - but I find its better for controlling roll.

The other benefit of the handbrake is that the brake lights aren't on blinding the guy behind. Of course - that's just a courtesy - but its still a nice one. I always appreciate it - just as I'm irritated when people don't do it.

adrianmugridge said:

I assume by "first on the roll" you mean as you are coming to a stop, just rolling slowly, you put the car in to first with the clutch in. I alway do that and get told not to do it on my IAM lessons. I'm told to wait until the car has come to a standstill, then engage the handbrake and only then can I select 1st gear.

If you are only going to be stopped momentarily there is not need for the handbrake. In fact if you will always be moving very slowly there is definitely no need for the handbrake. Learners get the "always use the handbrake" drill. For an Advanced Test you should be "using the handbrake to advantage" i.e. when there is some benefit in car control. What's the point in putting it on solely for "rote"? "Pass Your Advanced Driving Test" (the book) covers this.

If your Observer is commenting on your use of the handbrake ask to read the passage in the book together and make sure you understand what its asking you to do...and get your Observer to explain where you aren't doing it right. If your Observer can't then, hey!, good for you. Some Observers do not always keep up with the latest advice in the book, sadly.

As a rule if you are actually going to stop for more than a second or two you should stop in the gear you are in. Engage the handbrake. Engage neutral. Then engage first and move off.

If you NOT going to stop (and this is GOOD - better for the car, better for progress) then engaging first at a very slow speed "on the roll" is what to do.

Does that sound reasonable? It sounds to me like you are trying to do the right thing...

adrianmugridge said:

Yes, it is my car, so if I wear the rachet out, I pay for it. If I wear the clutch out, I pay for it again. It's just the same as smoking in my car. I don't smoke, and I don't allow anyone to smoke in it. But if someone smokes they can smoke in their own car, it's nothing to do with me.

But why? Why deliberately do something which, albeit slowly, wears something out, when there is no need. How hard is it to push in the button with your thumb whilst pulling up the lever? I just don't understand why you'd want to do it!

Anyway. Good for you taking the test. I'm sure you won't disagree with everything you cover. Good luck and I hope you pass - then *you* can decide what you want to carry over into your daily driving.

However critical I may be on here I am still delighted and impressed anytime anyone says, "I am doing the IAM test"...even if they disagree with either the IAM (so do I on some things!) or ME! (Fair enough!)

[Don]

JonRB said:

Adrian - same problem with my Chimaera, so I do tend to use the footbrake a lot more like you say.

Yes - the handbrake on my Chimaera is shite as well. Mainly because its difficult to actually get on and off - hey you work with what you got!

The handbrake on my Porsche needs adjusting too. On a steep hill coming out of Goodwood I had to apply footbrake to keep the car from rolling...still it will be sorted in a week or two...

[Don]

StressedDave said:

It may not be very gallant allowing someone else to take your impact, but it's cheaper...

But good advice all the same. At the back of queues on the motorway I try to leave a decent gap between me and the car in front to create an escape route and I keep s steady eye on the rear-view mirror...