Brake discs have failed an MOT

[macphee70]

Hello,

I'm looking for some advice her and sorry im new but i thought this was somewhere good to turn to.

My S40 has just failed an MOT on the grounds that both of the rear discs are in a conditions that is seriously weakened [ 3.5.1i] I've looked at them and I don't believe that this is the case.

So I've taken some photos as best I can and I'm taking the car to a different garage to be assessed but I just wanted other people opinion on them first.

I've put them on a google drive and apologies for the poor photos
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B5aJVO9_Os...



Thank you

[macphee70]

Thanks for the replies,

The results were 159Kgf and 205kgf imb 13% for the test and they passed the Bind, Judder and Grab, the overall test for both front and back was a pass with an overall efficiency of 69%. Last year the results were 180kgf and 223kgf Imb 17% with an overall efficiency of 68%.

Anyone else have an opinion?

[macphee70]

Hi t4ooble
What would your grounds being for scrapping them, I'm not debating that they should be replaced and questioning weather they are an MOT fail or not.

What state do discs need to be in to fail, cracked? seriously chipped? really thin?

[macphee70]

I don't agree that he's acting in my best interest, the test is meant to be a test that proves the vehicle is road worthy at that moment in time, not next week and not in 6 months time, just that exact moment. I wouldn't blame him for passing it this today and it falling apart tomorrow, that's my problem not his. An MOT doesn't come with a guarantee

The test should also be repetitive, it shouldn't be subjective, one garage that passes the discs should be the same as another garage. If he feels they need changed but cannot prove they are a fail it should only be an advisory item. I suspect that I could hit those discs with a hammer and they would not fall apart, just because they are rusty doesn't mean they are a fail.

I'm not disagreeing that they shouldn't be changed though.

[macphee70]

Thank for your advice hammmer, but all I really wanted to know was weather you felt it was a pass or fail. You feel its a fail, your entitled to that opiona dn I'm greatful for it thank you.

The local garage I brought it to this afternoon disagrees with you and agree it should be a pass but should also be replaced. So its going for another MOT somewhere else tomorrow and I'll wait and see what they say.

[macphee70]

Probably not as I'll have to get the pads changed too and agree it would be wise to do that. Also the garage that failed the discs was the Halfords Autocentre in Stirling, they also ripped one of my wiper blades and failed the other one (which is fine) Both were fine upon presentation to the MOT

They've quoted £18.99 for the wiper blade and £178.54 for 2 rear discs and pads. That's almost worth more than the car in total. For a car that probably should have passed.

I wont be going back there again

[macphee70]

DuraAce said:

If you agree it needs new disc+pads and you're happy to fit them, why are you wasting money getting it MOT'd elsewhere?

Or am I missing something?! What outcome are you looking for?

Unfortunately I'm looking for a pass, I want to get rid of the car in a couple of months and if I could get 2 or 3 out of it I'd be happy.

Its also now the principle of the thing, I took the car to a garage and they failed it on wiper blades and brake discs, something it never should have failed on. They damaged one of the blades by pulling it apart and the other is fine. They are making a mockery of the MOT system and abusing it to make a profit. If it now passes then I will ask the garage in question for a refund and to pay for the new MOT given that they gave me no other choice than to get it, I will also request compensation for the damage they have caused to my car and the time and expenses I have incurred having to deal with the fiasco they have created.

That said if it fails then I'll have to shut up and eat humble pie, but I suspect it wont fail for the discs and wipers

I personally feel that MOT's should only be completed by VOSA staff not garage staff. That way they would be fair and independent, at a site where the car cannot be repaired. The system is flawed (I know this comment will upset a lot of people)

[macphee70]

I did want to appeal but I cant really wait the 5 days for the DSVA to arrange a retest, but I did contact them about it.

It also put myself and them in a tricky situation given that they would have to fail it for the wiperblade given the state it was in after the test. I cant dispute that it wasn't fit for purpose when it came back out and I certainly wouldn't expect it to pass now. So I've had to change it. I have kept the original should I need to show it to any one.

So on those grounds I'd expect a appeal to fail as the car is not roadworthy any more and they didnt seem to know if the local office would take into account the damage the garage did to the wiper blade.

I do have a total of 14 days to appeal it but I kind of need to use it and if its safe to drive why should it sit on my driveway with a MOT refusal attached to it.

What really bugs me is that I will have wasted a total of 3 days dealing with this issue when it wasn't really an issue at all, all because the halfords autocentre in stirling failed a car that probably should have passed.

[macphee70]

That's really good caiss,

I did have a good relationship with a garage up the road but he closed down, which was a real shame. A new one has opened up a bit further away and I think he's really trying to make a good business off it, it was him that agreed that discs should pass. He doing an MOT on it tomorrow so I'll await the response. He seem genuine enough and reasonably priced.

I feel its sad that we all need to do this, imagine you had to do your weekly supermarket shop like this - nope cant go to that till, or that one the scanner is dodgy, or that one he tried to charge me and extra 50p for carrier bags last week, dont like him, or them they dont know the difference between a grape and a lime, etc. It would be a nightmare

[macphee70]

DuraAce said:

Its a tough when a subjective opinion is required though isn't it?

Those discs do look pretty scabby. Its hard (impossible?) to define EXACTLY where the line is when its comes to serviceability of consumables.

Look at it from the other side.... Imagine if he passed it today and as you drove home from the test one of the rear discs shattered (+ brake failure/accident etc). Are you telling me you'd honestly just suck it up or would you be complaining that the they should have failed it and made you replace them before issuing a certificate?

Dammed if you do and dammed if you don't some times.

I completely agree with your point, VOSA should define some way to make a pass or fail black or white they haven't done that. But I have asked a few examimers and they say they would have passed them, one said, if you could drive it here, it passed the brake test and they weren't cracked, holed split or missing then they were a pass. Infact a couple of people have actually questioned the pads more than the discs as it looks like they may be done to the bare metal, but they passed.

Let me look at it from that side too, does my MOT come with a guarantee? If it passes is the car road legal for the next 12 months? Nope, I could be pulled over and fined the second I hit a public road if the car is not roadworthy. Your MOT is really just another form of tax.

What I'm really questioning is the validity of my MOT refusal.

[macphee70]

Justin S said:

How much for discs and pads !! Someones pulling a blinder. I got a set of rear Brembo discs and Brembo sport pads for £80 for my xc60 and 1hr later they were fitted by me. Personally I would never let a disc get as bad as that. They are 'very' borderline on safe / legal breaking. I would suspect the S40 uses the same discs and pads as a focus, which will be cheap as chips.

can get discs for about £13 and pads for around £26, but yes Hlafords in Stirling quoted me £178.54 for rear pads and discs and £18.99 to replace the wiper blade they broke.

Funny enough they left a eurocarparts invoice on the desk when I came is, so its not like I'm buying halfords own over priced brands.

[macphee70]

Yes, my discs haven't quite reached that stage yet and never will. To be honest the car would probably get scrapped before they got that bad.

Thank you all for your replies, it seems quite clear that the halfords in Stirling were just out to make a quick £178.54 for changing the discs and pads, when they should have just passed and advised.

I've emailed them about this and the wiper blade they damaged to get a fail but their replies have been close to non-existant, customer service is shocking. I'll await to see the result of the new MOT I'm getting this afternoon and take it from there.

[macphee70]

Hammer67 said:

Same as your attitude to brake maintenance then.

Garages eh? Shysters the lot of em. Totally unethical, unlike a fine upstanding chap who thinks those discs should pass the MOT so he can flog the car with fooked brakes onto some poor sap in a couple of months time.

Double standards? No sirree....

Did I ever say they were all Shysters? Nope, but the Halfords Autocentre in Stirling certainly is. Anyway the full MOT retest was done today at a different garage. 3 advisorys, rear brake discs, rear pads and number plate.

Did I ever say I was going to flog the car to some poor sap in a couple of months time, might help if you read the posts rather than speculating. If you looking for an argument, which it looks like, then try you tube.

Edited by macphee70 on Thursday 26th March 19:55

Edited by macphee70 on Thursday 26th March 19:55

[macphee70]

Yip, will only really be fit as scrap. Why? You want to buy it? £2500 quid to you. Got a full years MOT

Haven't got one over on the garage. They've incorrectly failed a legal test and been found out.

And yip I've still got brakes that should be changed, but no longer illegal as halford would like to believe.

You work for Halfords?

[macphee70]

Pit Pony said:

The place I take my fleet to, would have passed that and it wouldn't even be an advisory. But they would have mentioned it, and told me to get it sorted. and I would have got it done. If they failed a car of mine for that, I would be happy as I'd have an incentive to get my arse off the sofa and my tools out.

Actually they told me 2 weeks back the BINI would need pads all round soon, but it looks to me like there's a few mm left, but hey I better get my arse into gear, and get it done.

Thank pit Pony, I will get them done and I did feel they were an advisory but it seems to me here that Halfords were just profiteering from the situation. Lesson learned on my behalf I guess.

The really bad thing is they left me with a car that I couldn't drive because it wasn't road legal, when in reality it was. That's a serious inconvenience, given that I couldn't get another MOT the next day. On a more dangerous note they damaged a windscreen wiper making that car dangerous to drive - that's not right.

I'm guesing that this situation is really about the Stirling autocentre trying to hit sales targets, I guess the staff get a bonus when they do so there's an incentive to try and flog stuff that isn't needed, but don't halfords have any morals?

Not to the mention the environmental impact this has, changing exhasts, tyres, wipers etc that are still fit for purpose. Its not very green is it?