MINI Electric Buyers Thread
Discussion
Thought I'd start a thread for anyone who's currently on the pre-order list.
I've just been contacted by MINI as it's now time to decide on spec... and I'm deep in choice paralysis.
https://www.mini.co.uk/en_GB/home/range/mini-elect...
The 'no quibble' walk away date is in March 2020 and I think I'm #8 on the pre-order list at my local dealer. That's the point at which I can test drive and walk-away with my deposit back if needs be.
So, anyone else going through the process? Going brilliantly basic or ticking every box?
I've just been contacted by MINI as it's now time to decide on spec... and I'm deep in choice paralysis.
https://www.mini.co.uk/en_GB/home/range/mini-elect...
The 'no quibble' walk away date is in March 2020 and I think I'm #8 on the pre-order list at my local dealer. That's the point at which I can test drive and walk-away with my deposit back if needs be.
So, anyone else going through the process? Going brilliantly basic or ticking every box?
GaryF said:
Hi, what's the real world expected range between charges on these? Range anxiety is one issue that most will want to confront.
Smart have gone fully electric and I saw real world figures of 57 miles quoted in test (no thank you).
I'm a Petrolhead, but I know things are changing and we will all be heading this way at some point. I hope you enjoy / go ahead when the time comes.
Speccing will be fun
Yeah, the 'hopeful' range is 145 miles but it doesn't really concern me too much. If I go through with it I plan to use it as my daily and my commute is only 18 miles each way. I have other car/motorbike options if I really need to do more than 100 miles so no bother. Smart have gone fully electric and I saw real world figures of 57 miles quoted in test (no thank you).
I'm a Petrolhead, but I know things are changing and we will all be heading this way at some point. I hope you enjoy / go ahead when the time comes.
Speccing will be fun
If it was an only car then it might bother me more.
As for spec, there's two real choices I need to make:
A) Do I want it to look like an 'electric' MINI or look more like a 'normal' MINI.
B) Do I want some toys, more toys, or all the toys.
I'm still undecided on both
Hey Watchnut a bunch of interesting questions and thanks for taking the time to reply. Any debate on the value of electric cars seems to get lost in a sea of ‘averages’ so I’ll do my best to try to answer the ones I can using my own personal circumstances - hope it’s helpful..
By my maths I could also plug in and operate a George Forman Grill for the enquire journey and still have plenty of charge to spare. I think I’ll be fine
Am I thinking about an electric car for the daily-grind journeys as part of my green ego? I don’t think so. Am I doing it so that I feel a bit less bad about burning petrol for fun the rest of the time? Possibly.
But, your point about learners etc is a really good one - my daughters and wife all drive, but don’t enjoy/understand the mechanical side of cars. An electric car that you operate more like an iPhone (plug in, use, plug in, use) is almost certainly going to be more suited to them than a traditional car.
I think it’s more about the relationship you have with your friends than something specific to electric cars. If a friend showed up at my house with a nearly empty petrol tank I’d gladly hand over my mower jerrycan. Same with charging their electric car if they’re in need, go for it.
If you really think this is a big reason not to get an electric car, you might want to look into getting some different friends!
Firstly, let’s compare to doing it every day in my M5 (I appreciate it a non-typical example but it’s both real world for me… and hilarious).
Based on my daily journey of 36 miles and my electric price of 12.9p kWh the MINI costs £1.28 per day.
The BMW costs £9.41 to do the same journey. That’s ignoring Tax, insurance, purchase cost, servicing and everything else. Pure energy cost I’d be saving £8 a day moving to the MINI.
The only real way to compare is on energy cost. If you start including buying new vs used, or servicing, tax etc it skews it all. But, for the sake of comparison, let’s compare to a more comparable car. Let’s say a Diesel version of pretty much the same car - the 1.5 Diesel Mini Hatch… £3.74 to do the same journey. So I’m still saving £2 per day and I don’t have to drive a hateful, slow, clattery, sooty diesel.
One thing I know for sure, it’s doesn’t matter which shower-of-s
te wins the General Election in December, the price of Diesel and Petrol is only going one way. I’m sure electricity will get more expensive too, but I think the gap between them will continue to grow.
But what about the planet (I agree, what happens to the batteries is a concern). However, though my work I have gained a small amount of insight into how the world of recycling works and the economics are really interesting. Recycling a small amount of something is expensive and non-economic, so it tends to go to waste. But, the more of something you have, the more sense it makes to recycle it, so the more you invest in recycling methods, which reduces the costs, which makes the end product more valuable, which means you recycle more of it, creating a virtuous cycle.
i.e. Once there are far more old electric cars, there will be more old electric car batteries, which will make them more interesting to recycle, which will make people invest in recycling methods, which will reduce the cost of recycling, which will make the end products lower cost (or more ‘valuable’) which will further spur recycling.
I appreciate that there’s a lot of ‘hope’ in that and I’m certainly no expert, but I refuse to believe that we’re going to reach a point where electric car batteries are just buried in the ground - the value of the components inside mean the economics of throwing them away just don’t stack up.
I hope this was all helpful stuff - I'm still very much undecided as to whether I'll go ahead with the purchase at the 'walk away' point, but it'll come down to whether I enjoy the driving experience rather than any concerns about electric cars per se.
watchnut said:
I was asking about the range to salesman/woman last week. I asked how much the range reduces once you have on the radio, heater, wipers lights, charging your phone/satnav/vibrator (just seeing if anyone is actually reading this )
They thought it would stay up as per the 140-145 miles per FULL CHARGE quoted in the book, but they are also not accounting for the weather (a/c on? heater?) or that most never check tyre pressures which can also effect rolling resistance. So actual miles per charge could go say to about 100 miles in cold weather?
Driving style is important....these cars are quick, and enjoyable off at the lights... a good thing...but heavy on the juice...range reduced
For me, it’s really doesn’t make any difference and an additional 100 or 150 miles of range in the car would be wasted on me - making the car both heavier and much more expensive. My commute is 18 miles each way and there’s charging points at work too. But let’s assume I just charge at home, with 36 miles of range required, I’m pretty sure I can drive to work and back flat-out with full lights, stereo, phone charger, heater and heated seats. )They thought it would stay up as per the 140-145 miles per FULL CHARGE quoted in the book, but they are also not accounting for the weather (a/c on? heater?) or that most never check tyre pressures which can also effect rolling resistance. So actual miles per charge could go say to about 100 miles in cold weather?
Driving style is important....these cars are quick, and enjoyable off at the lights... a good thing...but heavy on the juice...range reduced
By my maths I could also plug in and operate a George Forman Grill for the enquire journey and still have plenty of charge to spare. I think I’ll be fine
watchnut said:
If you want a car to make a fashion statement about how "green" you are ..... then great if you do under 50 miles a day
This is the crux for me a bit. Do I want to make a statement about how ‘green’ I am? Not really. As an avowed petrolhead with two other cars and a motorbike, any statement about how green I am would be pretty disingenuous. That said, like a lot of other people, I’m starting to feel that burning lots of fossil fuels while grinding out a weekly commute is starting to feel a little uncomfortable. Especially as it’s something I currently do in an M5. Am I thinking about an electric car for the daily-grind journeys as part of my green ego? I don’t think so. Am I doing it so that I feel a bit less bad about burning petrol for fun the rest of the time? Possibly.
watchnut said:
I would like/want one as a learner car as i believe we are going to get taxed off the roads soon for diesel and petrol, so in 5-10 years most learners may only want "auto" lessons.....but it is an expensive car, but it has not the range for a days work.... they need to have the technology to have a range like the tesla in the region of 300 miles a charge
Not really sure what point you’re making here? A 300 miles range Tesla would be much more expensive and wasted on me. I’d be dragging those big expensive batteries around every day for no good reason. The vast, vast majority of people commute less than 50 miles a day.But, your point about learners etc is a really good one - my daughters and wife all drive, but don’t enjoy/understand the mechanical side of cars. An electric car that you operate more like an iPhone (plug in, use, plug in, use) is almost certainly going to be more suited to them than a traditional car.
watchnut said:
You have to also make sure you have a decent "tariff" with your electric supplier otherwise your cheap electric car could work out more expensive than a diesel run around like my current Mini on anything between 52-75 mpg
Ignoring the standing charge (because I pay that anyway), I’m paying 12.9p per kWh. That’s a flat rate throughout the day but seems to be a pretty good price - so I'm comfortable. watchnut said:
for car equipment to keep costs down i would go for level one, or level one with rear parking sensors
but what the hell for 2k more the level 2 looks the business
We agree - I’ve gone for the Level 2. Parking sensors for the wife and kids, bum warmers and a classier looking interior for me but what the hell for 2k more the level 2 looks the business
watchnut said:
on irritating friends and family if they turned up asking to plug their car into your electricity....would you let them? And then when you drive around to their house hold out your hand and say......seeing you charged up at mine, my gaff, i used £10 worth of fuel to get here today.....cough up!
This is a weird one that has literally never crossed my mind I think it’s more about the relationship you have with your friends than something specific to electric cars. If a friend showed up at my house with a nearly empty petrol tank I’d gladly hand over my mower jerrycan. Same with charging their electric car if they’re in need, go for it. If you really think this is a big reason not to get an electric car, you might want to look into getting some different friends!
watchnut said:
Have you been quoted for a "charge box" to be fitted ?
I have. Thankfully, my electric meter and distribution box are all in the same place as the charger will be fitted. That means I can get a 7kw (the best you can get on a single-phase domestic connection) for about £299-£499. You can spend up to £1500 but you’re paying for looks/design really. Technically they’re relatively much of a muchness as far as I can see.watchnut said:
If your car uses say £7 worth of electric every day to be topped up that's £49 a week... i would suggest most people use less than that on petrol/diesel, and have further range...... how "carbon neutral" is it to get rid of a car already made, for a new one, being charged up from a power station 🙂
Okay, this is the big question really. How cheap is it? Firstly, let’s compare to doing it every day in my M5 (I appreciate it a non-typical example but it’s both real world for me… and hilarious).
Based on my daily journey of 36 miles and my electric price of 12.9p kWh the MINI costs £1.28 per day.
The BMW costs £9.41 to do the same journey. That’s ignoring Tax, insurance, purchase cost, servicing and everything else. Pure energy cost I’d be saving £8 a day moving to the MINI.
The only real way to compare is on energy cost. If you start including buying new vs used, or servicing, tax etc it skews it all. But, for the sake of comparison, let’s compare to a more comparable car. Let’s say a Diesel version of pretty much the same car - the 1.5 Diesel Mini Hatch… £3.74 to do the same journey. So I’m still saving £2 per day and I don’t have to drive a hateful, slow, clattery, sooty diesel.
One thing I know for sure, it’s doesn’t matter which shower-of-s
te wins the General Election in December, the price of Diesel and Petrol is only going one way. I’m sure electricity will get more expensive too, but I think the gap between them will continue to grow. watchnut said:
The battery life is also only guaranteed for 8 years or 100k miles....how much would new ones be? and how do they dispose of the old ones in an environmentally friendly way?.....is it the next scandal for cars like the "diesel " one currently is?
This is a good question. The easier answer is to simply not worry about it. I typically keep cars (usually bought used) for about 4 years, so I’ll be shot of it long before it becomes an issue for me personally. But what about the planet (I agree, what happens to the batteries is a concern). However, though my work I have gained a small amount of insight into how the world of recycling works and the economics are really interesting. Recycling a small amount of something is expensive and non-economic, so it tends to go to waste. But, the more of something you have, the more sense it makes to recycle it, so the more you invest in recycling methods, which reduces the costs, which makes the end product more valuable, which means you recycle more of it, creating a virtuous cycle.
i.e. Once there are far more old electric cars, there will be more old electric car batteries, which will make them more interesting to recycle, which will make people invest in recycling methods, which will reduce the cost of recycling, which will make the end products lower cost (or more ‘valuable’) which will further spur recycling.
I appreciate that there’s a lot of ‘hope’ in that and I’m certainly no expert, but I refuse to believe that we’re going to reach a point where electric car batteries are just buried in the ground - the value of the components inside mean the economics of throwing them away just don’t stack up.
I hope this was all helpful stuff - I'm still very much undecided as to whether I'll go ahead with the purchase at the 'walk away' point, but it'll come down to whether I enjoy the driving experience rather than any concerns about electric cars per se.
watchnut said:
Mdifficult....can't say I disagree with anything you have said there......but I would choose the "M" sport over a Mini anyday just for the "Fun"
Cheers. I consider myself extremely lucky to be in the position to have both. As well as the M5 I’ve also got a MINI GP2 and I love ‘fast things’ in general. For fun times though, on UK roads, I’d take my GP over the M-car every time - I promise you, it’s a lot more fun at a lot less speed. In fact, one of the big attractions for the electric MINI for me is that I hope it’ll be a great drive - lots of torque, very low centre of gravity, quick off the line and the usual ‘entertaining’ MINI handling. Test drive in Jan will see if that’s true or whether the added weight or lack of noise ruins it.
watchnut said:
I teach driving in a Mini Diesel, it is far from smoking at the moment on 161k (first clutch still) cheap to run, and convenient for it's job.
Sounds like you’ve got a belter and taken good care of it. The last new car I bought was a Ford Puma so I’m totally in agreement that, for bang for buck, there’s nothing to beat a used car - I normally go that way every time. I guess I could wait 3 years for there to be a used MINI electric but I’m hopeful it’ll hold its value really well and offset the need to wait. Fingers crossed! watchnut said:
I agree that electric or hybrid is the way the world is going, and I hope that the government (which ever bunch of morons get in) don't make it very expensive for diesel/petrol drivers because many just can't afford to change their vehicles. If they do it will add to inflation etc... the vehicle manufacturers are being encouraged to engineer cleaner vehicles, but, it is expensive at the moment.
I have driven a Tesla, and they are brilliant fun and bloody quick, but sooooo expensive there is no way i could afford one to teach in, no one would be willing to pay an hourly rate for me to turn a profit.
Back to my main point really - the benefit of electric vehicles is just like any other purchase - they’re not universal. It comes down to both personal circumstances and preferences. If you drive for a living then internal combustion is really the only option right now. I have driven a Tesla, and they are brilliant fun and bloody quick, but sooooo expensive there is no way i could afford one to teach in, no one would be willing to pay an hourly rate for me to turn a profit.
But, if you’re a ‘typical’ urban commuter, with a mix of motorway, A-roads and traffic jams, it seems really hard to look past an electric car at this point. Especially if you have another option for the big jaunts.
watchnut said:
I look forward to hearing about your life with the Mini electric, post how you get on on this means please a "real" life relationship/review with a vehicle works far better for me than a salesman/womans pitch
I have been completing one on my Mini on the "wessex car club" site....that no doubt has bored everyone
great choice for the level 2
Cheers - If I go through with it I’ll make sure you update a little here (assuming others join in) and in more detail on my current readers cars thread. I have been completing one on my Mini on the "wessex car club" site....that no doubt has bored everyone
great choice for the level 2
I’ll be very honest - there’s a bit of me that’s buying it because it fascinates me technically, and a bit of me that’s buying it because it’s a huge watershed car for a brand I really love. The practicalities, green and financial benefits are partially just the icing on the cake.
GaryF said:
All very interesting chat chaps. I'm not ready to make the move to electric yet myself but I've just read the evo article on the new Porsche Taycan. They are embuing the top-of-line varient with the 'turbo' moniker. Plonkers.
Look forward to hearing how you get on with the leccy Mini in the real world.
Cheers Gary, Look forward to hearing how you get on with the leccy Mini in the real world.
It’s funny, the idea of something like a Taycan really leaves me cold - stupid naming or not. Watching all these reviewers desperately try to imbue some excitement into this huge, silent, absurdly fast monstrosity is almost embarrassing. But, someone will love it I’m sure.
As per the above, I’m pretty much convinced on small electric cars for urban commuting. Electric seems entirely beneficial in those circumstances.
But, in this world where big fast cars are becoming even bigger and faster, electricity just seems to make them even pointlessly bigger and faster while removing anything that actually makes those cars fun - noise and excitement/fear!
But, no doubt they’ll sell like hot cakes
Well, the first drives/reviews are in and largely seem to be as expected.. not the best range but a really enjoyable drive. Ideal second car.
Shame the launch was in Miami and urban focused, but shouldn’t be too long before they’re back on UK roads for UK-biased reviews.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/mini/electric...
https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/mini/electric
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/mini/mini/108925/new...
Still no confirmed date on my pre-order test drive but should be imminent I guess.
Anyone else in the queue?
Shame the launch was in Miami and urban focused, but shouldn’t be too long before they’re back on UK roads for UK-biased reviews.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/mini/electric...
https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/mini/electric
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/mini/mini/108925/new...
Still no confirmed date on my pre-order test drive but should be imminent I guess.
Anyone else in the queue?
JohnBRG said:
Does anyone know the lead time on these, if I ordered one tomorrow?
Hard to say, but I understand they’ve been incredibly popular. With the option to walk-away on first test drive, MINI must be super confident of finding homes for them. I guess you’d be waiting about 6 months from now unless walk-away cars start becoming available? mini_se said:
Had my test drive today, a Level 2 car the same as I have ordered, and I have to say it was everything I was hoping for.
We only drive about 400 miles a month in total, so keeping the existing Fabia petrol car for longer distance trips, the Mini will do perfectly for everything else. Both of us work from home and most of the 400 miles we drive each month is 5-10 mile round trips to gym, shops, parents, friends etc. so range not an issue.
Not used to either an automatic or regen braking, but after 30 min was perfectly happy with both, although still rather jerky at times whilst slowing down but that will sort itself out with practice I am sure.
Needless to say confirmed the order and looking forward to end of month, when hopefully it will be delivered.
Fantastic, thanks for sharing. The reviews are coming thick and fast and everything seems to suggest it’s a cracking drive - great to get confirmation from someone who’s stumped their money up! We only drive about 400 miles a month in total, so keeping the existing Fabia petrol car for longer distance trips, the Mini will do perfectly for everything else. Both of us work from home and most of the 400 miles we drive each month is 5-10 mile round trips to gym, shops, parents, friends etc. so range not an issue.
Not used to either an automatic or regen braking, but after 30 min was perfectly happy with both, although still rather jerky at times whilst slowing down but that will sort itself out with practice I am sure.
Needless to say confirmed the order and looking forward to end of month, when hopefully it will be delivered.
I really enjoyed Jonny Smith’s (Carpevert’s) review:
https://youtu.be/dyswzcDCjxE
mini_se said:
Just been called by dealer to say delivery date moved forward from the 26th to the 16th, so will be collecting it on Monday afternoon.
Happy days.
Wow that’s soon - good for you! I’m still 2 months away which is mad considering I was the 8th person to put my name down my dealer. Got my test drive this Sat though... Happy days.
Good luck and make sure to tell us all about it on here!!
mini_se said:
Found this on posted on SpeakEV. Not really a surprise I guess, given top speed will not come into play on a track like this, but still shows that the E has kept the handling of the ICE car, which is what I am looking for.
https://youtu.be/F2aBgELdbt8
Couldn’t agree more. Had my test drive yesterday and up to about 60 it feels every bit as quick as a pretty-warm hot hatch like the ICE Cooper S. https://youtu.be/F2aBgELdbt8
It’s like the other electric cars I’ve driven or been in, in that the lack of gear changes means the acceleration is swift but also relentless - very much like an aircraft take off. Didn’t feel a single traction issue either despite multiple launches on varying road surfaces - which means either the grip exceeds the torque despite the skinny tires or.. the TC is phenomenal compared to ICE cars.
With the high-level re-gen switched on, it has a really interesting split personality - quick and chuck-able (like a MINI) when you want it to be but, also incredibly relaxing (like a S-Class Merc or something) in slow traffic or town. There’s clearly some extra sound deadening going on because it’s glossy over crap road surfaces. Extra weight and suspension height might be involved in that too.
Everything else is, well, typical MINI - which works for me but maybe not for others.
Anyone else had their run yet?
Oh, one other note - the government reduced the subsidy in the budget so if your order isn’t already in and your dealer hasn’t already claimed the discount... your car is now £500 more expensive.
Some canny dealers submitted the order in advance so if yours didn’t - might be the time to negotiate some recommence!
Some canny dealers submitted the order in advance so if yours didn’t - might be the time to negotiate some recommence!
mini_se said:
I thought the Mini was sticking to traditional tyres, taking the hit this causes to range, but providing the level of grip required for the driving experience they are looking to deliver.
Given no spare wheel I prefer this, as I think the low rolling resistance rubber used on many EVs have thinner walls and are more susceptible to punctures.
It’s a good point - I guess they looked skinny to me as my main frame of reference is JCW/GP etc. Either way, plenty of grip! Given no spare wheel I prefer this, as I think the low rolling resistance rubber used on many EVs have thinner walls and are more susceptible to punctures.
mini_se said:
I can understand that, but you only live once is my view.
If you do I don’t think you will be disappointed, but they not going anywhere and you can always get one later. If you do I am sure the boys and girls down in Cowley will appreciate the support, given the current situation.
I’m gutted, but as you say, they’ll be there in 6 months if the world goes back to normal. Right now, starting to feel like cash on hand is probably preferable to an amazing new car - especially since it doesn’t look like I’m going to be doing much driving over the next few weeks (months? Years?). If you do I don’t think you will be disappointed, but they not going anywhere and you can always get one later. If you do I am sure the boys and girls down in Cowley will appreciate the support, given the current situation.
Well done you though - glad it’s everything you (we) hoped it would be and really hope you start a reader’s cars thread on it!
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