N12 Prince engine - how bad is it?
Discussion
It's first car time for eldest daughter, and she has her heart set on a MINI. We are looking to spend about £2,000, at which there's healthy choice of outwardly clean and tidy 2007-2009 cars with 80-100k on the clock. For insurance reasons, we are looking at the 1.4 One version which I believe has the N12 variant of the notorious "Prince" engine
This of course brings me to my main concern which is the Prince engine. The internet is filled with horror stories of broken timing chains and coked up valves, but is it a case that for every one of these there are 100 running happily, or are they all ticking timebombs, with major bork a matter of "when, not if".
It will fall to me to look after this thing, and I'm reasonably competent with the spanners, but at the same time while I accept it's an old car that will need bits and pieces sorting out, I also don't want to be under the thing every weekend, constantly shelling out to keep it running, or having it recovered from some far flung place.
I'm happy to do an oil and filter change every 6 months for example, but that's not going to undo any issues that might be lurking by the time we buy the car.
It would be comforting to know that it's not going to cause what little bit of hair I have left to fall out.
Any thoughts gratefully received.
This of course brings me to my main concern which is the Prince engine. The internet is filled with horror stories of broken timing chains and coked up valves, but is it a case that for every one of these there are 100 running happily, or are they all ticking timebombs, with major bork a matter of "when, not if".
It will fall to me to look after this thing, and I'm reasonably competent with the spanners, but at the same time while I accept it's an old car that will need bits and pieces sorting out, I also don't want to be under the thing every weekend, constantly shelling out to keep it running, or having it recovered from some far flung place.
I'm happy to do an oil and filter change every 6 months for example, but that's not going to undo any issues that might be lurking by the time we buy the car.
It would be comforting to know that it's not going to cause what little bit of hair I have left to fall out.
Any thoughts gratefully received.
Pistom said:
The problem is what "best looked after" is.
These engines need more than a dealer stamped service book. The key issue in my experience has been cars which have run low on oil which many will if not topped up between services.
Sadly, this is often neglected resulting in associated problems.
Indeed. The chances of finding something that's had more frequent servicing than recommended is going to be nigh on impossible.These engines need more than a dealer stamped service book. The key issue in my experience has been cars which have run low on oil which many will if not topped up between services.
Sadly, this is often neglected resulting in associated problems.
An 08 came up locally earlier that looked stunning but had 105,000 miles and "no service history" caught my eye. Given it was local, I was going to look, just to get something to gauge others by if nothing else, but it sold within an hour of being advertised.
Nice little car, good history with it, looked straight and quite "honest" with a few minor scuffs and scratches here and there, but no major damage, and would have actually looked really nice with a machine polish. 2 keys, loads of history, all paperwork presented in a nice folder and together. Guy had owned it for 3 years and clearly looked after it. All the right signs.
Nice spec as well with heated part leather, and the colour entertainment screen in the centre of the speedo. Engine was smooth, responsive and quiet, car drove really nicely and felt tight and together. Steering, brakes, clutch etc all felt lovely. Only thing I could fault was the tailgate needed a good slam to close.
Starting to think we might have lucked in on a peach on the first go, I ran a Car Vertical check, and it came back as a Cat N in 2019 (months before the current seller bought it). Thought for a minute about a super lowball offer, but common sense kicked in, I thanked the seller for his time, and walked away
Keep looking.
Nice spec as well with heated part leather, and the colour entertainment screen in the centre of the speedo. Engine was smooth, responsive and quiet, car drove really nicely and felt tight and together. Steering, brakes, clutch etc all felt lovely. Only thing I could fault was the tailgate needed a good slam to close.
Starting to think we might have lucked in on a peach on the first go, I ran a Car Vertical check, and it came back as a Cat N in 2019 (months before the current seller bought it). Thought for a minute about a super lowball offer, but common sense kicked in, I thanked the seller for his time, and walked away
Keep looking.
Edited by Limpet on Saturday 2nd July 13:15
I've looked at a few more, and the only one that didn't have some timing chain noise wasn't cold when I got to it, despite my asking for it to be, and the oil level was also just below minimum on the dipstick. The seller admitted "it used a bit of oil" and the fact he he hadn't bothered to top it up before viewing, and that the full service history turned out to be not exactly full, I walked away from that one as well.
It concerned me that among the noisy ones, there were cars that were, by any standards, very well cared for, and in lovely condition with comprehensive service histories. Two of them in particular were really, really nice examples but both had rattly engines.
Have decided to look for a late R50 instead (05-06 with the Getrag box). As well as the seemingly far less problematic Tritec engine, the other advantage is that it's easier to upgrade the ICE to something more modern and bluetooth / streaming capable, given there's a standard DIN stereo in there. VED is slightly dearer (£220 vs £180) but in the scheme of things, it's not a deal breaker.
It concerned me that among the noisy ones, there were cars that were, by any standards, very well cared for, and in lovely condition with comprehensive service histories. Two of them in particular were really, really nice examples but both had rattly engines.
Have decided to look for a late R50 instead (05-06 with the Getrag box). As well as the seemingly far less problematic Tritec engine, the other advantage is that it's easier to upgrade the ICE to something more modern and bluetooth / streaming capable, given there's a standard DIN stereo in there. VED is slightly dearer (£220 vs £180) but in the scheme of things, it's not a deal breaker.
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