"Air hunger" when running, anybody else had this?
Discussion
I have been running regularly for the last 10 years doing a range of marathons, half's, 10k's etc and running on average 3 times a week (usually 2 x 6 miles and 1 x 8 miles unless training for a marathon).
My average training pace is about 7,45 per mile and I tend to push a bit harder on the races with this year's Half pb being 1hr 32, so closer to 7 mins per mile, & marathon 3hrs 44.
Not every race but on a few occasions I have experienced a kind of "air hunger" where I cannot seem to get the oxygen into my lungs and hence into my muscles. This happened at the weekend during a 10k race, by 3 miles in I felt exhausted and could barely continue to complete the course, the last mile taking over 9 minutes and being uncomfortably hard. I first noticed this sensation on a 10k about 3 years ago, on that run I almost had to stop by 3 miles but suddenly I could feel the oxygen coming into my system as if a tap had been turned, and the strength coming back to my legs. This sudden return of oxygen has not happened at any subsequent run when I have had the difficulty breathing.
It tends to happen if I set off hard and then I cannot stabilise the breathing even by slowing a little. On another run, the same pace will not cause a problem and I can settle down to a pace around 7,15'ish.
I have booked in to see my GP just in case but wondered if anyone had experienced anything similar?
Thanks for all the feedback. It feels to me to be a bit more than just being out of breath, I have seen the GP and booked in for an echo scan on my heart next week, just to be on the safe side really but you never know.... i have a place in the London Marathon for next year so hopefully it won't impact on this!
thatjagbloke said:
I had similar symptoms last year. I've run regularly for over 40 years without problems then suddenly I felt that I just couldn't get enough oxygen into my lungs.
Went to the doctor, lung function test ok, chest X- Ray normal then had an Angiogram which apparently showed one artery was 70% blocked so it was decided I needed a stent.
Went back 4 weeks later to have the stent fitted and the scan showed my artery as normal. To say I was confused is an understatement but the Cardiologist explained that my artery must have gone into spasm and this is relatively common.
Was given nitrate tablets to take and these did the trick although they do give you a bit of a headache for the first few weeks.
Possibly the op has the same probably ?
HiWent to the doctor, lung function test ok, chest X- Ray normal then had an Angiogram which apparently showed one artery was 70% blocked so it was decided I needed a stent.
Went back 4 weeks later to have the stent fitted and the scan showed my artery as normal. To say I was confused is an understatement but the Cardiologist explained that my artery must have gone into spasm and this is relatively common.
Was given nitrate tablets to take and these did the trick although they do give you a bit of a headache for the first few weeks.
Possibly the op has the same probably ?
Thanks, this does sound the same/very similar to what is afflicting me. Were your symptoms constant or did they seem to come & go, was it just when running (and if so, just when pushing hard or even when just "cruising") or did you have the same problem at rest? My symptoms have so far been only when running (or other exercise) and then not every race. My race pace is aim to set off at 7 min miles and then settle at around 7 15's after about 4 miles, this year I have run half marathons at that pace with no problems but also done 10k's where I almost had to stop as my legs felt "dead" and ended up clocking 9 min miles.
Are you back to normal with the nitrate tablets?
As mentioned I have an echo scan on my heart next week so shall see if that reveals anything.
Hi
The air hunger actually got worse, if anything, so a couple of weeks ago I went to a&e to hopefully fast track a few checks. I was taken straight for an ecg & blood checks and then through to resuss where I was put on a bed and, cutting a long story short, told by the young doctor that I had either had or was about to have a heart attack. That certainly took the edge off my afternoon.
Cutting the story short again, I was kept there about 3 hours. I had a chest & lung xray, was kept on the ecg and also had an echocardiogram. Eventually as I had no actual pain, the blood tests came back clear, my pulse was steady at c.55 and 100% oxygen in the blood stream, they decided I wasn't having a heart attack and I was allowed home.
Since then I have been to see the Cardiologist (who I was already booked in to see) and my GP again to get some further tests. Nothing specific has been identified yet and my breathing is more or less now back to normal. I have done a few very slow runs which felt ok but legs do ache a bit after.
Due to speak to GP again next wk as he is reviewing xrays etc taken by a&e and also booked to see cardiologist later in November. All a bit ironic really given I have never smoked, am not overweight and have exercised regularly my whole life...!
The air hunger actually got worse, if anything, so a couple of weeks ago I went to a&e to hopefully fast track a few checks. I was taken straight for an ecg & blood checks and then through to resuss where I was put on a bed and, cutting a long story short, told by the young doctor that I had either had or was about to have a heart attack. That certainly took the edge off my afternoon.
Cutting the story short again, I was kept there about 3 hours. I had a chest & lung xray, was kept on the ecg and also had an echocardiogram. Eventually as I had no actual pain, the blood tests came back clear, my pulse was steady at c.55 and 100% oxygen in the blood stream, they decided I wasn't having a heart attack and I was allowed home.
Since then I have been to see the Cardiologist (who I was already booked in to see) and my GP again to get some further tests. Nothing specific has been identified yet and my breathing is more or less now back to normal. I have done a few very slow runs which felt ok but legs do ache a bit after.
Due to speak to GP again next wk as he is reviewing xrays etc taken by a&e and also booked to see cardiologist later in November. All a bit ironic really given I have never smoked, am not overweight and have exercised regularly my whole life...!
The GP thought he could hear a slight hear murmur which could be due to aortic valve stenosis, other possibility is hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (thickening of wall in the heart), both of which would reduce the ability to efficiently circulate oxygen. Hopefully on going tests will provide some answers.
A quick update is anyone is interested. The slight breathlessness has continued, seems to be less of an issue but I cannot be sure if this is just because I have got more used to it.
I saw the cardiologist who did another ecg a couple of weeks ago, the suspect was aortic stenosis which is not good news as this can require replacement of the heart valve (channel 5 aired a programme last week showing a live operation doing just this). I then had an echogram this morning and the nurse said that the valves all looked ok to her, the suspicion now is on hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (HCM) which is a thickening of the heart muscle.
The cardiologist still has to review the results but if it is HCM rather than AS, then that is "relatively" good news as it is less dangerous and I may be able to get back into exercise (I have a place in the London Marathon next year through the ballot so that is my target, which may or may not be realistic). In the meantime, I have bought myself a motorbike (a 67 reg KTM Duke 390 if interested) as still need to get out into the countryside!
The downside of HCM is that it is hereditary so there is a 50% chance of my kids having it. They will have to be checked as it can be a cause of sudden death in the young.
Anyway, this could all change when I have the cardiologists report so I am continuing to take it easy.
I saw the cardiologist who did another ecg a couple of weeks ago, the suspect was aortic stenosis which is not good news as this can require replacement of the heart valve (channel 5 aired a programme last week showing a live operation doing just this). I then had an echogram this morning and the nurse said that the valves all looked ok to her, the suspicion now is on hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (HCM) which is a thickening of the heart muscle.
The cardiologist still has to review the results but if it is HCM rather than AS, then that is "relatively" good news as it is less dangerous and I may be able to get back into exercise (I have a place in the London Marathon next year through the ballot so that is my target, which may or may not be realistic). In the meantime, I have bought myself a motorbike (a 67 reg KTM Duke 390 if interested) as still need to get out into the countryside!
The downside of HCM is that it is hereditary so there is a 50% chance of my kids having it. They will have to be checked as it can be a cause of sudden death in the young.
Anyway, this could all change when I have the cardiologists report so I am continuing to take it easy.
Another update in case anyone interested.
I had feedback from the cardiologist following on from the echo cardiogram, this all looked quite normal for my age. Mild left ventricular hypertrophy (thickening of wall of heart) conducive with doing a lot of exercise, aortic valve mildly thickened but no significant stenosis (narrowing), normal left ventricular systolic function (pumping blood pressure).
I also had a 24 hour ambulatory blood pressure monitor and this came back satisfactory at an average of 132/77.
I was then booked in for an Exercise Tolerance Test (ETT) which involved being attached to an ECG machine while on a treadmill. This was surprisingly hard word work and much more intense than I would normally experience on a run. It basically consisted of 3 minute intervals building up in speed and incline. I lasted 14 minutes and by the end felt I was pretty much running flat out. The monitoring then continues as you recover. Following this I was fitted with a 24 hour ecg monitor to check the heart under normal conditions.
I met with the cardiologist again yesterday, the ETT had shown some arrhythmia (irregular heart beat) at the extreme end of the exercise when I was going at full chat. The 24 hour ecg monitor did not show anything untoward.
His diagnosis as it stands is Atrial Fibrillation (irregular and fast heart beat) but only happening under very high "revs". He has now booked me in for an MRI scan in case they are missing anything and referred me to a specialist surgeon to discuss whether I may benefit from having a Catheter Ablation, where a catheter is passed through a vein and used to destroy the diseased part of the heart.
He did say he will consider prescribing low dosage beta blockers which slow the heart rate but was not sure if these would help given my normal heart rate at rest is around 55. In the meantime, he has said it should be ok to begin running again, although taking it easy.
I still have the air hunger at times and feel that my basic stamina is well down, I have done a couple of 6 mile runs and averaging around 8,30 to 9,00 minute miles which is a lot slower than I was 3 months ago, even taking it easy.
Anyway, I will see what the MRI discovers and what the heart surgeon recommends. Ironically I looked back at my results for the NHS over 40's Health Check which I did in Nov 16, my risk of CVD (Cardiovascular Disease) was rated at 8.6%, which just goes to show that you never know...
I had feedback from the cardiologist following on from the echo cardiogram, this all looked quite normal for my age. Mild left ventricular hypertrophy (thickening of wall of heart) conducive with doing a lot of exercise, aortic valve mildly thickened but no significant stenosis (narrowing), normal left ventricular systolic function (pumping blood pressure).
I also had a 24 hour ambulatory blood pressure monitor and this came back satisfactory at an average of 132/77.
I was then booked in for an Exercise Tolerance Test (ETT) which involved being attached to an ECG machine while on a treadmill. This was surprisingly hard word work and much more intense than I would normally experience on a run. It basically consisted of 3 minute intervals building up in speed and incline. I lasted 14 minutes and by the end felt I was pretty much running flat out. The monitoring then continues as you recover. Following this I was fitted with a 24 hour ecg monitor to check the heart under normal conditions.
I met with the cardiologist again yesterday, the ETT had shown some arrhythmia (irregular heart beat) at the extreme end of the exercise when I was going at full chat. The 24 hour ecg monitor did not show anything untoward.
His diagnosis as it stands is Atrial Fibrillation (irregular and fast heart beat) but only happening under very high "revs". He has now booked me in for an MRI scan in case they are missing anything and referred me to a specialist surgeon to discuss whether I may benefit from having a Catheter Ablation, where a catheter is passed through a vein and used to destroy the diseased part of the heart.
He did say he will consider prescribing low dosage beta blockers which slow the heart rate but was not sure if these would help given my normal heart rate at rest is around 55. In the meantime, he has said it should be ok to begin running again, although taking it easy.
I still have the air hunger at times and feel that my basic stamina is well down, I have done a couple of 6 mile runs and averaging around 8,30 to 9,00 minute miles which is a lot slower than I was 3 months ago, even taking it easy.
Anyway, I will see what the MRI discovers and what the heart surgeon recommends. Ironically I looked back at my results for the NHS over 40's Health Check which I did in Nov 16, my risk of CVD (Cardiovascular Disease) was rated at 8.6%, which just goes to show that you never know...
Quick update in case anyone is interested. As a quick refresh, symptoms of "air hunger" and large reduction in stamina came on during a hard 10k last September and have not fully gone away since.
I have now had the results back from my MRI, along with numerous other tests, ECG, blood pressure, echocardiogram etc etc. I have met with the cardiologist and he has summarised that everything with the heart looks pretty much normal in line with my age and health profile.
The only issue detected is the Atrial Flutter, which has only been picked up during the Stress ECG, and then just when I was giving it full beans on the treadmill. I have also met with the Electrophysiologist (Catheter Ablation specialist) who said it was worth having the operation (apparently it is very low risk) to hopefully cure the flutter and potentially ward off future problems...
However my stamina level is still down (since the 10k last September) so I have been back to the GP. Have now done a Chest X-ray (all normal), a spirometry test to check lung capacity, asthma etc (all normal) and have just had a blood test (awaiting results).
All in all still a mystery....
On a more positive note, and I know this makes it sounds like I may be imagining the symptoms, I did the London Marathon at the weekend in 4hrs 6 mins (the cardiologist had said it should be safe to go back to running and I had done a steady training programme). Not really complaining but it is all relative, my last marathon a year ago was a comfortable 3hr 44m.
Will see what if anything comes from blood tests and if GP has any more ideas...
I have now had the results back from my MRI, along with numerous other tests, ECG, blood pressure, echocardiogram etc etc. I have met with the cardiologist and he has summarised that everything with the heart looks pretty much normal in line with my age and health profile.
The only issue detected is the Atrial Flutter, which has only been picked up during the Stress ECG, and then just when I was giving it full beans on the treadmill. I have also met with the Electrophysiologist (Catheter Ablation specialist) who said it was worth having the operation (apparently it is very low risk) to hopefully cure the flutter and potentially ward off future problems...
However my stamina level is still down (since the 10k last September) so I have been back to the GP. Have now done a Chest X-ray (all normal), a spirometry test to check lung capacity, asthma etc (all normal) and have just had a blood test (awaiting results).
All in all still a mystery....
On a more positive note, and I know this makes it sounds like I may be imagining the symptoms, I did the London Marathon at the weekend in 4hrs 6 mins (the cardiologist had said it should be safe to go back to running and I had done a steady training programme). Not really complaining but it is all relative, my last marathon a year ago was a comfortable 3hr 44m.
Will see what if anything comes from blood tests and if GP has any more ideas...
If anyone is interested, the symptoms of fatigue, slight breathlessness, aching legs have continued since last September, they come and go, never very bad but also never perfect and nothing like the energy levels I had.
As the heart checks came back clear the GP has referred me to the Pulmonary/Respiratory specialist whom I met the other day. He has booked me for a CT scan and for checks at the Full Lung Function with Reversibility clinic. I understand these checks will look for Pulmonary fibrosis or clots in the lungs, apparently these can cause symptoms similar to heart disease, so we shall see if they find anything.
In the meantime, I continue with my gentle jogging and dog walking. Not given up hope completely and have entered the ballot for London Marathon next year, will see if I can fluke a place in there again....!
As the heart checks came back clear the GP has referred me to the Pulmonary/Respiratory specialist whom I met the other day. He has booked me for a CT scan and for checks at the Full Lung Function with Reversibility clinic. I understand these checks will look for Pulmonary fibrosis or clots in the lungs, apparently these can cause symptoms similar to heart disease, so we shall see if they find anything.
In the meantime, I continue with my gentle jogging and dog walking. Not given up hope completely and have entered the ballot for London Marathon next year, will see if I can fluke a place in there again....!
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