GRRC 2021 Membership
Discussion
I see from the latest newsletter, there is mention of renewals for next year. No comments about anything being other than normal, just an advance heads-up that they want another £250 ish.
Not sure what I was expecting, but I fear it is a bit optimistic to assume that next year will actually be back to normal. It must be almost impossible to plan for an event that might get cancelled.
They have had our £240 + donations this year, which though not exactly happy about, I am prepared to 'give' since I enjoy the events and what them to continue. If the same happens next year, not so tollerant.
Ideas, thoughts or options?
Not sure what I was expecting, but I fear it is a bit optimistic to assume that next year will actually be back to normal. It must be almost impossible to plan for an event that might get cancelled.
They have had our £240 + donations this year, which though not exactly happy about, I am prepared to 'give' since I enjoy the events and what them to continue. If the same happens next year, not so tollerant.
Ideas, thoughts or options?
I suspect the yearbook will just be all about 'Speedweek' - if that goes ahead.
I understand that it is supposed to be behind closed doors, with only participants present, but who knows what dim government rules might be in place in the next few weeks.
As as aside - I believe that Bonham's are having an auction at Speedweek. If this is physically at the event, and I have been (sort of) invited, does this make me a participant? It is an academic point as I am not going anyway, but just a thought.
I think there could be a lot of annoyance created if it turns out that 'participants' turn out to be rather more than drivers, mechanics and TV crews.
I understand that it is supposed to be behind closed doors, with only participants present, but who knows what dim government rules might be in place in the next few weeks.
As as aside - I believe that Bonham's are having an auction at Speedweek. If this is physically at the event, and I have been (sort of) invited, does this make me a participant? It is an academic point as I am not going anyway, but just a thought.
I think there could be a lot of annoyance created if it turns out that 'participants' turn out to be rather more than drivers, mechanics and TV crews.
We should probably have started another thread as this one was intended to discuss 2021 GRRC membership, but discussing SpeedWeek is good...
I feel Goodwood have been a bit optomistic in thinking they can 'get away with' this. I understand it is supposed to be to minimise losses, and probably opens them up to receive payments from sponsors, but I think there must be some doubt that it will happen.
Quoting BBC News this afternoon (for what that is worth) "A full lockdown is highly unlikely, but more significant steps such as closing hospitality venues, leisure facilities and curbing everyday activities from playing sport to travelling around the country remain options."
As another poster said, there also has to be serious doubt about MM78 in 2021.
I don't want to be a doom-monger, but I just don't see how a venue can go ahead and invest so much time and money in planning with no certainty that it will go ahead. I wonder what the rates being offered for event cancellation insurance are.
To return to the original point of the thread - 2021 renewals. Another year where events might not happen - I can't see members being that tollerant of another full price year. Just as an idea - not that I expect Goodwood to read this - is maybe bundling in basic entry only tickets to at least one of the events in with the membership. I suppose they would just put up membership fees by say £200 though.
A bit of motorsport isn't that important in relation to the current situation - there are other threads for political or statistical argument - but it does seem the country has lost the plot a bit.
I feel Goodwood have been a bit optomistic in thinking they can 'get away with' this. I understand it is supposed to be to minimise losses, and probably opens them up to receive payments from sponsors, but I think there must be some doubt that it will happen.
Quoting BBC News this afternoon (for what that is worth) "A full lockdown is highly unlikely, but more significant steps such as closing hospitality venues, leisure facilities and curbing everyday activities from playing sport to travelling around the country remain options."
As another poster said, there also has to be serious doubt about MM78 in 2021.
I don't want to be a doom-monger, but I just don't see how a venue can go ahead and invest so much time and money in planning with no certainty that it will go ahead. I wonder what the rates being offered for event cancellation insurance are.
To return to the original point of the thread - 2021 renewals. Another year where events might not happen - I can't see members being that tollerant of another full price year. Just as an idea - not that I expect Goodwood to read this - is maybe bundling in basic entry only tickets to at least one of the events in with the membership. I suppose they would just put up membership fees by say £200 though.
A bit of motorsport isn't that important in relation to the current situation - there are other threads for political or statistical argument - but it does seem the country has lost the plot a bit.
ecsrobin said:
I just can’t see Goodwood planning a members letting knowing that there’s potential for no spectators at sporting events until a few weeks before the event.
Much as I want to be there, I have to agree. Also, the sooner Goodwood realises this and makes an announcement the better.There is a huge knock-on for the area too (such as hotels). The sooner decisions are made, the more that people can prepare.
I fear the reality here is another year without much in return for our memberships. Platinum GSA badges next year?
Just had my renewal info come through... prices held from last year £235 adult/£340 family.
GW say thay are planning for all of 2021's events.
Realistically, I don't see an event with 20k people taking place (MM78) let alone 150k for Revival.
Surely, there is a point where a decision has to be made if it is worth continuing to plan. If the situation is unchanged by January, I doubt they will continue with an event in March.
It clearly isn't Goodwood's fault, they are dropped in the middile of a mess - but I don't think pretending all is normal is helpful.
GW say thay are planning for all of 2021's events.
Realistically, I don't see an event with 20k people taking place (MM78) let alone 150k for Revival.
Surely, there is a point where a decision has to be made if it is worth continuing to plan. If the situation is unchanged by January, I doubt they will continue with an event in March.
It clearly isn't Goodwood's fault, they are dropped in the middile of a mess - but I don't think pretending all is normal is helpful.
ecsrobin said:
I think I’ll hold out till the end of December before paying we may have a better idea if events of that size will be going ahead in 2021.
I think I will hold out too - but as mentioned above, I too am sure that any announcements about next year's events will be made after the memberships are in the bank.It isn't really a dig at Goodwood - what can they do? I would expect a bit more honesty about the plan though, just blindly saying the events will go ahead doesn't actually give that much confidence.
I don't have a crystal ball, but to me, the way things are going I just don't see how any organisation can commit literally millions of pounds to organising an event that has a high probability of being cancelled or delayed.
Again a political or statistical point, but the population hiding from a virus doesn't solve the issue. It just kicks the can and makes the problem happen later.
AllezWasps said:
...........
I look at it this way- if I don’t renew and everyone else takes the same view then Goodwood will be gone. End of. No more. Yes it will be bitterly disappointing to have everything scrapped again next year but firstly at this moment in time there’s every chance we’ll get a FOS and a Revival (I accept the position with the MM is a bit more precarious- but of course they could re-jig the date) and secondly, if my continued support and membership gives us a shot at going back to the place I love dearly in 2022 then for me, it’s a price worth paying.
I was going to say that the Club subs are not necessary in order to run the events, but then a quick estimate of the figures was made...I look at it this way- if I don’t renew and everyone else takes the same view then Goodwood will be gone. End of. No more. Yes it will be bitterly disappointing to have everything scrapped again next year but firstly at this moment in time there’s every chance we’ll get a FOS and a Revival (I accept the position with the MM is a bit more precarious- but of course they could re-jig the date) and secondly, if my continued support and membership gives us a shot at going back to the place I love dearly in 2022 then for me, it’s a price worth paying.
The Membership fees for the Goodwood Road Racing Club must gross around £2M for the Goodwood Road Racing Company (based on an average of say £300 fees for say 7000 members). I can't see the Club being particularly expensive to run.
GRRCo netted something like £5M the previous year, so the Club does seem to be a surprisingly high contributor to the Company profits.
However, assuming 150,000 (over the three days) go to both major events (total 300k tickets) , to get that £2M back would only add £7 to a ticket. Don't forget Members still have to buy their tickets (allowing a small discount).
If my figures are roughly right, then it adds more weight to a bit more value being given back to the Members.
I too am likely to be renewing - I want the events to continue as I enjoy spending my time there - however Goodwood just saying they are planning for all events and no mention of the fall back position isn't good.
OtherBusiness said:
I agree with all of this. I will renew for next year, but am not expecting MM to go ahead in March. The other events are a maybe. Probably be another Speedweek type single event in 2021. If the rules are a bit more relaxed after next summer (or there is a vaccine and we have our "all clear" paperwork!), just members are able to visit to spectate, spread out around the track.
Hopefully the membership and fellowship combined brings in enough money to the GRRC and estate as a whole to keep it ticking over as we move forward.
That is a three line summary of my ramblings!Hopefully the membership and fellowship combined brings in enough money to the GRRC and estate as a whole to keep it ticking over as we move forward.
My issue with Goodwood is the blind belief that there will be the three events as normal next year - a bit of reality when they ask for our fees would be a better plan. An alternative plan for if things don't go as we would like. A further delayed MM78 would be disappointing, as that is really (for me) the best of the events. We don't know the future for next year, but we/they should be open about considering options.
Reading my own post back, I realised one part didn't read as I intended... I was trying to get across that the Membership does in fact contribute a fair bit to the operation. Goodwood should recognise that a bit more. Particularly if the membership end up giving GW several million for them to tread water for the two years. I think most members don't see the annual fees as just buying a service, it is more to belong in some way to GW.
I think there is a general feeling that the Membership benefits have been diluted over the years. Benefits might be better for those who live locally and can take better advantage of things. I don't wish to deny 'Fellows' (AKA Associate Members) their benefits, but there isn't a great step between them and members.
You don't want to alienate the non-members, but Members (and Fellows to some degree) should get a bit more.
Whatever happens, with ticket carry over and/or reduced capacity, GW have lost a year's worth of ticket sales (countered by not having some of the costs of the three events). By my guess that is someting like 300,000 people (tickets) over the 6 days with say an average cost of £100... that is £30M. Ouch.
mk1coopers said:
I did it, my thinking was to support Goodwood now so it's there for the future, looks like they have some government funding as well now, which will only strengthen things, I can see the MM moving, April will be too soon, even with mass vaccinations it's going to take months not weeks to get everyone done, the infection rates are going to have to be monitored to make sure it's working then there still has to be some sort of CV-19 protocol worked out for large events (for next year and who knows how much longer), plus people that still don't want to attend / the opposite end of the scale where they don't think of others, that will have an impact on the recovery times. .
I will be renewing, but as others have said, I am also expecting a reduced set of events.I also fully expect the MM to move from the start of April. No way will the situation with vacinations, health passports etc. be in place by then. I can't see how Goodwood can 'bet' on being allowed to run the event when surely they need to be planning and booking already. I guess tent hire and such like will be glad of the business, so may allow cancellable, or movable bookings, but it all seems to make it next to impossible. I think I heard that Goodwood lost £1M on the aborted build-up for last year's postponed event.
I have said it before, but I think this would be a good opportunity for Goodwood to do a bit of a 'reset' with the GRRC members. I think there has been a general feeling that benefits have been erroded over the years. Members that have stuck with Goodwood through this should in someway be rewarded (and more so than a brass plaque and a tree). Not sure exactly what I am asking for, but something exclusive at at least one of the events. I can see a GSA stand - but of course Goodwood would then milk that by charging extra too.
mk1coopers said:
As an example in a mask area at work I've had 2 people come in during the last week and say they are exempt, only to double check with thier employer (as I just wanted a list of who was exempt so it could be passed onto the staff who work there) only to find that neither of them had any sort of exemption and they had lied to us, people who are prepared to do this will extend the current situation and have an effect on us all
Probably more for another thread but, be very careful with this... as far as I understand the legislation, 'exemptions' are self-declared and it can be as simple as 'mask anxiety' . A person's employer wouldn't know about any exemption. I believe attempting to check up on people falls foul of discrimination and disability laws. Arguably not what was intended - but the law was badly drafted and rushed through without parlimentary inspection.Odd one for me now...
Since my last posting, I have spent some time in intensive care with Covid, which maybe affects my view of mass gatherings.
I *think* I shall renew for 2021, but I don't expect to be going to any events.
I notice the Manx government have already cancelled the TT which should have been at the start of June... I really don't see this big outside events being allowed here anytime soon.
No way am I expecting the 78MM to take place in April... Maybe it gets delayed until later in the year, but it might be tricky to fit in.
I don't like the FoS (too many people), so won't be going to that.
I love the Revival, bar there being too many people - I don't see me being comfortable with the crowds - so I guess I won't be going to that either.
I have a partner who is vulnerable, so even if she stays at home, I can't go to an event and risk bringing something home.
Looks like a waste of £240 again... if I do renew, it is only to 'tread water' until 2022.
Gives me a chance to get my classic back on the road I suppose ready for 2022.
None of that is Goodwood's fault though - it is just a bad situation all around.
Since my last posting, I have spent some time in intensive care with Covid, which maybe affects my view of mass gatherings.
I *think* I shall renew for 2021, but I don't expect to be going to any events.
I notice the Manx government have already cancelled the TT which should have been at the start of June... I really don't see this big outside events being allowed here anytime soon.
No way am I expecting the 78MM to take place in April... Maybe it gets delayed until later in the year, but it might be tricky to fit in.
I don't like the FoS (too many people), so won't be going to that.
I love the Revival, bar there being too many people - I don't see me being comfortable with the crowds - so I guess I won't be going to that either.
I have a partner who is vulnerable, so even if she stays at home, I can't go to an event and risk bringing something home.
Looks like a waste of £240 again... if I do renew, it is only to 'tread water' until 2022.
Gives me a chance to get my classic back on the road I suppose ready for 2022.
None of that is Goodwood's fault though - it is just a bad situation all around.
ecsrobin said:
The government I believe have said tiers will remain until Easter 1 week before MM I believe. At present West Sussex is close to being tier 1 and if they achieved that and maintained it then that would allow 4,000 people to attend MM under current guidelines. I just can’t see them even planning for it knowing that if nothing changes 4,000 people only. I doubt we will see a change in the tier system before the new year at the earliest despite the fluidity of the pandemic.
I think FOS and revival may get a look in but at a reduced capacity. However we may know a bit more Thursday as a recent newsletter said stay tuned for the 3rd.
I think the 20k attendees for the MM was supposed to be not far from the break even point - 4k means they would be running at a massive loss, so that isn't going to happen. I would assume that most of the 20k tickets have already been sold and only a few available due to people being refunded. Surely that is a massive problem for GW - advance sales are already going to be way more than will be allowed.I think FOS and revival may get a look in but at a reduced capacity. However we may know a bit more Thursday as a recent newsletter said stay tuned for the 3rd.
It is all guessing at the moment (which doesn't help Goodwood at all), but assuming West Sussex stays as a tier 1, would I currently from a tier 3 area even be allowed to attend?
How could Goodwood plan an event not really knowing geographically where all their attendees could be coming from (sell to address doesn't necessarily mean that is were the people are coming from - and that would be too hard to manage anyway).
Present plan is to renew for this year, but probably not attend any events.
I think things have to be back to normal for 2022 - if they are not, then I think a full price renewal for 2022 isn't going to happen for me. I like being a member of the club, but do have to see some benefits back other than just a badge.
Okay, not sure if I am just having a 'thick' day...
Just gone on to the Goodwood site to renew for GRRC and I see a strange option.
Under GRRC Renewal we have several options;
GRRC Full Membership
Select
Adult Renewal @ £235
Young Person Renewal
Family Renewal
GSA Adult Renewal @ £176.25
GSA Family Renewal
Have I missed something? What is the GSA Renewal?
Just gone on to the Goodwood site to renew for GRRC and I see a strange option.
Under GRRC Renewal we have several options;
GRRC Full Membership
Select
Adult Renewal @ £235
Young Person Renewal
Family Renewal
GSA Adult Renewal @ £176.25
GSA Family Renewal
Have I missed something? What is the GSA Renewal?
BrundanBianchi said:
Goodwood supporters association membership.
............. the 'new' GSA being a one-off contribution for long-lasting one-off benefits in return for supporting in the current circumstances.
Sorry, I should have been clearer. ............. the 'new' GSA being a one-off contribution for long-lasting one-off benefits in return for supporting in the current circumstances.
As a GRRC member, I was 'given' GSA membership in lieu of this years cancelled programme of events (as all members were).
As you quote above from the website, this year's GSA resurection was supposed to be a one-off.
So, I am just not getting where members can apparently renew Adult Membership OR GSA Membership.
Edited by No ideas for a name on Wednesday 16th December 13:21
ecsrobin said:
That’s what I took it as the original GSA members a bit confusing now it’s reintroduced.
Renewal documents said £235 so I guess that is the one to go for.As far as I can remember, the GSA bit has never been on the renewal page before (unless presumably you were in the original GSA, in which case you probably wouldn't see the ordinary GRRC renewal tab). No problem at all with those people getting a discount... Without their efforts the circuit wouldn't have reopened.
Just a little confusing to offer it on an 'ordinary' member's renewal page.
I did wonder if it was a special discount for those who are now in the 'new' GSA. My wondering was quite short - and I realised that wasn't going to happen.
I did email the GRRC office, but haven't had a reply yet.
Looks like we have an upper and lower GSA! In fact original GSA, new silver, and new Gold GSA. Anyone for platinum GSA if the events don't get off the ground next year?
ch37 said:
I imagine it could be very important next year if there are (and it seems likely) restrictions on capacity at the big events, even more so considering they've already sold a whole heap of tickets for them. It doesn't seem like too many people exercised the option of asking for a 78MM refund.
I foresee a not too distant future where Fellows are asked nicely to roll over their MM ticket yet another year.
There are tickets available for 78MM. Not on sale yet, but will be shortly.I foresee a not too distant future where Fellows are asked nicely to roll over their MM ticket yet another year.
Open to Members first, then Fellows, then general public if there are any left by then.
I don't see any suggestion that Members would effectively take tickets away from Fellows - it appears that if you have a ticket already, then that is safe.
Only issue may be with things being pushed back causing another delay in the 78MM for everyone.
BrundanBianchi said:
Yes, there was a big ‘hoo-ha’ early on about the ‘member’ part of ‘members meeting’. It stemmed from a misunderstanding about the term ‘member’. It was originally intended as a revival of the R.A.C. member, racing meetings of the 1960s, open to all enthusiasts, as spectators. But multiple rattles were thrown out of multiple prams, and Goodwood bowed to pressure to make it primarily Goodwood member oriented. Simple economics prevailed over the original aim. As far as I’m concerned, that’s a bad move, as the MM is a great opportunity to bring in people who fall between the FOS and Revival, in terms of what ‘floats their boat’.
It probably works reasonably well at the moment... members of the public are allowed to attend, it is just that they need to get their tickets bought by a Member or presumably a Fellow. I suppose there is an issue if you are general public that fancies coming along, but don't have friends that are Members.However, thinking a bit more, I suppose that if a member of the public wants to go and doesn't know anyone who can get tickets - they can join the fellowship and they are then allowed to buy directly. £30 isn't a big on cost if you really want to go.
In theory, the buying window opening for Members first does give them 'first dibs' on purchases - however, in reality not everyone has the spare cash around Xmas (or in fact any time) to buy up MM and FoS and Revival tickets.
ch37 said:
This is what I do, a Fellow solely to buy MM tickets each year. The Revival is a bit too much for me but as MM is by far my favourite event of the year I don't mind paying the additional cost to be guaranteed a ticket. I time my Fellowship purchase to get two years of MM tickets out of it, then skip a year. I don't use any other benefits, don't even know what they are to be honest.
I am intrigued though as a few people have said with certainty that if you have a ticket and the event goes ahead then you're in. Have Goodwood said they will only run it if they can at full capacity? What if, for example, they're all set go go ahead and then relatively last minute govt rules say a maximum of 10k in attendance?
I think you are *famous* on the GRRC forum. Some people were having a go saying someone doing this was 'cheating the system'. I don't see it like that, those are the rules. Goodwood is 'better-off' by half a Fellowship subscription per year.I am intrigued though as a few people have said with certainty that if you have a ticket and the event goes ahead then you're in. Have Goodwood said they will only run it if they can at full capacity? What if, for example, they're all set go go ahead and then relatively last minute govt rules say a maximum of 10k in attendance?
Yes, I didn't quite get this either... I am told that remaining tickets for the 78MM will go on sale shortly. No mention was made to me of cutting back the allocation. As you say, what happens if on 14th May, events can only have 10k attendees?
I guess that if the sold numbers are very much higher than the allowed numbers, then it would be rescheduled again.
Just a guess, but if the numbers were close, maybe allowing some people to exchange their MM ticket for a Revival ticket. That might get the numbers where they need to be voluntarily.
I have renewed - however I am 50% expecting that I won't be getting much for my money.
My prediction is that MM78 will get swallowed up in government* restrictions. FoS I would expect needs big numbers of attendees to make it work - which is very unlikely to be allowed. I also expect the Revival to be cut down. In fact, if it isn't - then I won't be going anyway. My own risk analysis tells me I don't want to be crammed in with 150k hot sweaty people breathing on me at close quarters. I know I can install myself around the back of the circuit, but it would restrict enjoying the whole event.
- I am not having a go at the government - I am not really sure what they can do. It is an unknown, and a moving target.
I was a bit of a non-believer, but recently spent 9 days in intensive care with Covid. I have no idea where I picked it up from (mostly working from home), and certainly not 'old' fat or unfit. It just shouldn't have happened.
Other than missing the events, I do feel sorry for Goodwood and many other entertainments businesses - I can't see how many will survive long-term.
Yesterday's email from Goodwood said they are pressing ahead.
"Happy New Year! We are very excited to be planning a full calendar of Goodwood motorsport events for 2021.
Despite the current lockdown, we are confident that the planned rollout of vaccinations means that the most important part of our events, the fans, can be welcomed back safely to beautiful West Sussex later in the year."
As said before - I don't see it myself. Unfortunately I think we are at the 'end of the beginning' rather than the 'beginning of the end' in terms of the pandemic.
78MM in May? Too early. I really doubt 20k attendees are going to be allowed anywhere by that time. I realise it can be made almost entirely outside, but I don't see it being seen as sensible for people to travel from all over the country to mix for two days.
FoS in June? Maybe, but not with anything like 200k people. I suspect there is a break-even point on attendees and that is going to be way above anything that will be allowed.
Revival in September? Most likely out of the three, but again with limited numbers. Possibly limited to numbers that means the maths don't stackup.
A personal risk assesment makes me question the wisdom of attending such an event. If FoS or Revival were to run with full numbers, there is no way I want to be squeezed in to an area with thousands of people all breathing on me.
I have paid my subs for this year, but am questioning what we will actually get for them. I suppose it isn't a *lot* of cash at least to some, but it is a fair chunk if you haven't been able to work due to CV-19 and don't get any help from the Government.
Goodwood are still selling tickets! They go on sale next Monday. I do want a 78MM ticket (even though I am possibly thinking this will get 'banked' until next year), but surely GW has sold out the MM last year and the only tickets available will be those that were returned - that can't be many... so, what happens if 20k tickets are sold and the Government allows events up to 5k attendees?
Seems GW are getting in deeper to this mess. I know GW need to survive until we get to the otherside, but blindly saying it is all continuing as normal looks a bit short sighted.
"Happy New Year! We are very excited to be planning a full calendar of Goodwood motorsport events for 2021.
Despite the current lockdown, we are confident that the planned rollout of vaccinations means that the most important part of our events, the fans, can be welcomed back safely to beautiful West Sussex later in the year."
As said before - I don't see it myself. Unfortunately I think we are at the 'end of the beginning' rather than the 'beginning of the end' in terms of the pandemic.
78MM in May? Too early. I really doubt 20k attendees are going to be allowed anywhere by that time. I realise it can be made almost entirely outside, but I don't see it being seen as sensible for people to travel from all over the country to mix for two days.
FoS in June? Maybe, but not with anything like 200k people. I suspect there is a break-even point on attendees and that is going to be way above anything that will be allowed.
Revival in September? Most likely out of the three, but again with limited numbers. Possibly limited to numbers that means the maths don't stackup.
A personal risk assesment makes me question the wisdom of attending such an event. If FoS or Revival were to run with full numbers, there is no way I want to be squeezed in to an area with thousands of people all breathing on me.
I have paid my subs for this year, but am questioning what we will actually get for them. I suppose it isn't a *lot* of cash at least to some, but it is a fair chunk if you haven't been able to work due to CV-19 and don't get any help from the Government.
Goodwood are still selling tickets! They go on sale next Monday. I do want a 78MM ticket (even though I am possibly thinking this will get 'banked' until next year), but surely GW has sold out the MM last year and the only tickets available will be those that were returned - that can't be many... so, what happens if 20k tickets are sold and the Government allows events up to 5k attendees?
Seems GW are getting in deeper to this mess. I know GW need to survive until we get to the otherside, but blindly saying it is all continuing as normal looks a bit short sighted.
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