Mountain bike sizing - how does this look?
Discussion
Bit of advice on mountain bike sizing if I may...
Went to view this WHYTE 901 size large at the weekend. I'm 6'1'' and according to the Whtye size chart this is what I should be on, LBS manager also agreed it was right saying that the XL Whyte is huge in comparison.
Now I don't think I want this bike, I'm probably after a Ragley BluePig that has almost the same geometry but as I couldn't try one I thought I'd try the Whyte to get an idea.
When on the bike it felt great, the sitting position was ok, it felt stretched enough and I didn't think I'd want the tope tube any longer. Unfortunately I couldnt ride the bike outside so could not judge the reach when standing. According to the geo charts it is 15mm ish longer than the Ragley will be but the Ragley has a 15mm longer stem so that should even things out.
It was only when home and I looked at the picture that I thought the bike looked small. I'm used to a massive 12yr old 21inch framed specialized Hardrock that looks like a garden gate and is tall and dated in all it's geometry. I want a bike that is more nimble and playful but the surprising thing is the numbers for my old Spesh are smaller in every way, stack, reach, TTE, wheelbase, yet in this photo the Whyte almost seems small.
In-store the Whyte felt good and I thought there was no way I'd want anything bigger, then I see the pic and am not so sure.
The only other new bikes I have ridden or sat on are the Marin San Quentin 3, - almost same geo but lower stack and more reach. And I have ridden a Vitus Mythique XL and Sommet L. The Sommet was cramped when sitting but felt massive despite that, the Mythique was better, the same TTE as the Whyte but more reach.
Here are the basic numbers of the Whyte incase that helps.
Reach 476. TTE 654. Stack 644. Wheelbase 1228. Stem 35
And the Ragley BluePig I hope to get in large?
Reach 460. TTE 641.2. Stack 631.8. Wheelbase.1218.8 Stem 50
Am I just not used to how modern MTBs look? This long. low, slack thing was never around when I bought my last bike. Looking at pictures and numerous YT videos everyone seems to ride smallish bikes compared to 10yrs ago, at least the frames look smaller even if wheelsize and wheelbase have gone up.
Went to view this WHYTE 901 size large at the weekend. I'm 6'1'' and according to the Whtye size chart this is what I should be on, LBS manager also agreed it was right saying that the XL Whyte is huge in comparison.
Now I don't think I want this bike, I'm probably after a Ragley BluePig that has almost the same geometry but as I couldn't try one I thought I'd try the Whyte to get an idea.
When on the bike it felt great, the sitting position was ok, it felt stretched enough and I didn't think I'd want the tope tube any longer. Unfortunately I couldnt ride the bike outside so could not judge the reach when standing. According to the geo charts it is 15mm ish longer than the Ragley will be but the Ragley has a 15mm longer stem so that should even things out.
It was only when home and I looked at the picture that I thought the bike looked small. I'm used to a massive 12yr old 21inch framed specialized Hardrock that looks like a garden gate and is tall and dated in all it's geometry. I want a bike that is more nimble and playful but the surprising thing is the numbers for my old Spesh are smaller in every way, stack, reach, TTE, wheelbase, yet in this photo the Whyte almost seems small.
In-store the Whyte felt good and I thought there was no way I'd want anything bigger, then I see the pic and am not so sure.
The only other new bikes I have ridden or sat on are the Marin San Quentin 3, - almost same geo but lower stack and more reach. And I have ridden a Vitus Mythique XL and Sommet L. The Sommet was cramped when sitting but felt massive despite that, the Mythique was better, the same TTE as the Whyte but more reach.
Here are the basic numbers of the Whyte incase that helps.
Reach 476. TTE 654. Stack 644. Wheelbase 1228. Stem 35
And the Ragley BluePig I hope to get in large?
Reach 460. TTE 641.2. Stack 631.8. Wheelbase.1218.8 Stem 50
Am I just not used to how modern MTBs look? This long. low, slack thing was never around when I bought my last bike. Looking at pictures and numerous YT videos everyone seems to ride smallish bikes compared to 10yrs ago, at least the frames look smaller even if wheelsize and wheelbase have gone up.
Edited by MiltonBaines on Monday 8th February 09:25
Edited by MiltonBaines on Monday 8th February 09:36
Thanks for the advice everyone, yep jumping forward 10years of geo and development is certainly strange, bikes look smaller but are longer, wheels seem huge with so much out front, and bar width seems crazy. But I'll get used to it all. I hired the two Vitus at Swinley and after a few minutes of thinking this is all weird, settled in and had great fun rides.
I had considered 29inch wheels until I rode the Sommet 29'' at Swinley, it had the turning circle of an oil tanker and there were some tight switchbacks I could barely get round. Probably with better technique I could but the 29s seemed like cart wheels. 27.5s look massive to my old 26er, which should do I suppose as my 9yr old daughter has 26' wheels on her bike. I want a nimble playful bike, I had read that 29s were great for steam rolling over stuff but less good on tight stuff or when you want to mess around jumping etc. Hence I was looking at 27.5s.
Nice to hear a fellow 6'1'er has a large 901 and it fits, the Ragley I hope to get is give or take the same size so hopefully will be ok.
I think I need to go with my gut feeling when I got on the bike, which was this fits, I wouldn't want it to be bigger and to ignore the photo.
Apologies for not quoting you all individually, that was beyond me on a phone. Cheers
I had considered 29inch wheels until I rode the Sommet 29'' at Swinley, it had the turning circle of an oil tanker and there were some tight switchbacks I could barely get round. Probably with better technique I could but the 29s seemed like cart wheels. 27.5s look massive to my old 26er, which should do I suppose as my 9yr old daughter has 26' wheels on her bike. I want a nimble playful bike, I had read that 29s were great for steam rolling over stuff but less good on tight stuff or when you want to mess around jumping etc. Hence I was looking at 27.5s.
Nice to hear a fellow 6'1'er has a large 901 and it fits, the Ragley I hope to get is give or take the same size so hopefully will be ok.
I think I need to go with my gut feeling when I got on the bike, which was this fits, I wouldn't want it to be bigger and to ignore the photo.
Apologies for not quoting you all individually, that was beyond me on a phone. Cheers
Unfortunately I don't know any one else into MTBs, or at least anyone with a modern geo bike.
The nearest I've got was riding the two Vitus at Swinley. The Mythique XL was the nicer of the two fit wise with a seemingly huge reach of 497mm, though the TTE was 644, about the same as the Ragley/Whyte. I could have gone smaller but am not sure if a hardtail fits in the same way as a FS, and whether the geo can really be compared.
The nearest I've got was riding the two Vitus at Swinley. The Mythique XL was the nicer of the two fit wise with a seemingly huge reach of 497mm, though the TTE was 644, about the same as the Ragley/Whyte. I could have gone smaller but am not sure if a hardtail fits in the same way as a FS, and whether the geo can really be compared.
Edited by MiltonBaines on Monday 8th February 22:17
Thanks I'm in Rickmansworth Herts, so possibly near you, a brief sit on your bike and a chat would be really useful.
Your bike in all measurements is bigger than anything I've looked at, the reach seems huge on paper so I'd be interested to see how that really feels.
I'll message you, cheers.
Your bike in all measurements is bigger than anything I've looked at, the reach seems huge on paper so I'd be interested to see how that really feels.
I'll message you, cheers.
Thanks TallPaul, I could go up to an XL BluePig that has a TTE of 665 and a reach of 480. The stems are 50mm so there is a bit of wiggle room to make things smaller if needed, the TTE could be lowered to 650 or 655.
The numbers on the XL just seemed so large, I didn't want to be riding a cumbersome barge around the trails.
Fas1975, I know Burnham quite well, I do the half marathon there each year and spent some of my teens courting a very nice young lady who lived there...
The numbers on the XL just seemed so large, I didn't want to be riding a cumbersome barge around the trails.
Fas1975, I know Burnham quite well, I do the half marathon there each year and spent some of my teens courting a very nice young lady who lived there...
joshleb said:
I would also prefer a longer top tube with short stem over a shorter top tube with a longer stem.
I find you get better control and less twitchy front end with the short stem. But then I've come from a downhill and jumping background and always wanted as short as possible stem.
Would I be better with an extra large with a TTE of 665 and a stem of 50mm that can be shortened over a large with a TTE of 641 and no stem change option?I find you get better control and less twitchy front end with the short stem. But then I've come from a downhill and jumping background and always wanted as short as possible stem.
Large TTE 641 Reach 460
XL TTE 665 Reach 480
Thanks all, it really is a minefield, I have 33in inside leg so similar to above poster. Piglet is similar so was useful to know your thoughts on that in XL.
The Sonder in large does seem quite oddly sized, a short TTE of 623 but a longish reach of 462 - so reach is similar to BluePig but sitting I'd probably be cramped on the shorter Sonder.
The BluePig large seems to sit inbetween a Nukeproof large and extra large too, I have so many geo charts bookmarked and scribbled down that I'm loosing track. It is really is a minefield buying a bike blind in the current climate.
The Sonder in large does seem quite oddly sized, a short TTE of 623 but a longish reach of 462 - so reach is similar to BluePig but sitting I'd probably be cramped on the shorter Sonder.
The BluePig large seems to sit inbetween a Nukeproof large and extra large too, I have so many geo charts bookmarked and scribbled down that I'm loosing track. It is really is a minefield buying a bike blind in the current climate.
Thanks for the reply. I intend to take this to Swinley for some flowy trails, maybe some other bike trails in time, possibly Chicksands. I'm certainly not a gnarly jumper but I want some fun. Locally we have a few downhill trails in woods that are fun to mess around on for an hour or two. I may have a few sedate rides with the kids on bridal ways but I don't want a bike that just suits that.
I want an mX5 in bike form really.
I want an mX5 in bike form really.
So a bit of an update.
I had a fun weekend meeting a couple of PHers and trying their bikes. Most I've driven since all this mess began, had to put petrol in my car for the first time since last September!
Anyway, the important stuff first. Thank you much to everyone who offered advice in this thread but in particular 'Fas1975' and 'missing the VR6' who both gave up part of their weekend to meet me and let me ride their bikes. Actually getting in the saddle made so much difference, the geo charts just don't give a true picture of what a bike is really like. 'Fas1975' and 'missing the VR6' are both top guys and it was a pleasure to meet you both, you've both stopped me from making a very costly mistake.
mtVR6 showed me his Ragley mmmbop, this was basically the same bike as I hoped to buy but alu rather than steel. Same geo and a size large just as the charts and bike shops recommended I get. As lovely as the bike was, it was just far too small for me. I was cramped and although it was fun to pedal on the BMX track for a couple of laps it would not have suited me for a ride any longer than a few minutes. This really surprised me, all it's measurements seemed huge to me, far bigger than what I ride at the moment but when put together they make a bike too small for me sadly. It was a long drive but so worth it just to discount the bike. I'm getting back the deposit I have on a large BluePig. The sizing charts on this one just really don't tell the full story. I don't think anyone can look at the picture below and think it fits. Another thing that surprised me was the paint finish quality that VR6 pointed out to me, his shorts rubbing on the top tube occasionally had destroyed the paint and elsewhere it had marked so easily. VR6 said he hadn't mistreated it but it was just poor quality paint.
Fas1975 showed me his Rocky Mountain Growler XL and Whyte 603 XL. On paper both seemed huge, the Growler in particular looked ridiculously big. But the big surprise was just how right they both felt. The Whyte was the smaller of the two with slightly less aggressive geo but reach and TTE-wise it felt good and was a fun pedal. The Growler was the revelation of the weekend, it's reach of 500, TTE of 670 and wheelbase of 1271 felt great, I was sat in the bike, not on it and it wasn't the huge monster to ride that I thought it would be. In fact it felt pretty perfect. The 29er 2.6wide wheels seemed huge but they were bound to compared to the 26er I ride now. I know you shouldn't just go on photos and looks but of all the side view pics I've taken now, this bike seems to be the one that looks as though it fits. I thought 29er wheels would look ridiculous but they actually suit my size. I've read the various 27.5 vs 29er debate forum threads points out pros and cons for both and I'm sure I could live with both. Looks -wise I think they work better on an XL frame than 27.5 wheels which still look a bit diddy on a big bike.
So the outcome of all this is I now know the basic geo numbers that fit me and the style of bike I want. 'Agis' suggested a Cotic BFe and many hours of research and watching YT reviews has now pushed me to go after one of them. Sam, one of the owners of Cotic even responded to my barrage of questions by email with a phone call this afternoon and we chatted numbers and geo for half an hour. The BFe Max XL is pretty much the same size as the Growler XL with almost identical geo. Sam has also found other 6ft1 ish riders have preferred to size up a little from the large suggested on their site's chart. So that's what I'm after, the measurements all seem right and if it has the same or better feel as the Growler then I will be happy. The only fly in the ointment is of course they are not back in stock until August. Still, gives me time to save a little more and to hone my very basic skills on the hire bikes at Swinley.
So once again thanks Fas1975 and missingtheVR6, you were both a huge help and I'm a lot more confident with my decision than I was last week. Cheers all.
I had a fun weekend meeting a couple of PHers and trying their bikes. Most I've driven since all this mess began, had to put petrol in my car for the first time since last September!
Anyway, the important stuff first. Thank you much to everyone who offered advice in this thread but in particular 'Fas1975' and 'missing the VR6' who both gave up part of their weekend to meet me and let me ride their bikes. Actually getting in the saddle made so much difference, the geo charts just don't give a true picture of what a bike is really like. 'Fas1975' and 'missing the VR6' are both top guys and it was a pleasure to meet you both, you've both stopped me from making a very costly mistake.
mtVR6 showed me his Ragley mmmbop, this was basically the same bike as I hoped to buy but alu rather than steel. Same geo and a size large just as the charts and bike shops recommended I get. As lovely as the bike was, it was just far too small for me. I was cramped and although it was fun to pedal on the BMX track for a couple of laps it would not have suited me for a ride any longer than a few minutes. This really surprised me, all it's measurements seemed huge to me, far bigger than what I ride at the moment but when put together they make a bike too small for me sadly. It was a long drive but so worth it just to discount the bike. I'm getting back the deposit I have on a large BluePig. The sizing charts on this one just really don't tell the full story. I don't think anyone can look at the picture below and think it fits. Another thing that surprised me was the paint finish quality that VR6 pointed out to me, his shorts rubbing on the top tube occasionally had destroyed the paint and elsewhere it had marked so easily. VR6 said he hadn't mistreated it but it was just poor quality paint.
Fas1975 showed me his Rocky Mountain Growler XL and Whyte 603 XL. On paper both seemed huge, the Growler in particular looked ridiculously big. But the big surprise was just how right they both felt. The Whyte was the smaller of the two with slightly less aggressive geo but reach and TTE-wise it felt good and was a fun pedal. The Growler was the revelation of the weekend, it's reach of 500, TTE of 670 and wheelbase of 1271 felt great, I was sat in the bike, not on it and it wasn't the huge monster to ride that I thought it would be. In fact it felt pretty perfect. The 29er 2.6wide wheels seemed huge but they were bound to compared to the 26er I ride now. I know you shouldn't just go on photos and looks but of all the side view pics I've taken now, this bike seems to be the one that looks as though it fits. I thought 29er wheels would look ridiculous but they actually suit my size. I've read the various 27.5 vs 29er debate forum threads points out pros and cons for both and I'm sure I could live with both. Looks -wise I think they work better on an XL frame than 27.5 wheels which still look a bit diddy on a big bike.
So the outcome of all this is I now know the basic geo numbers that fit me and the style of bike I want. 'Agis' suggested a Cotic BFe and many hours of research and watching YT reviews has now pushed me to go after one of them. Sam, one of the owners of Cotic even responded to my barrage of questions by email with a phone call this afternoon and we chatted numbers and geo for half an hour. The BFe Max XL is pretty much the same size as the Growler XL with almost identical geo. Sam has also found other 6ft1 ish riders have preferred to size up a little from the large suggested on their site's chart. So that's what I'm after, the measurements all seem right and if it has the same or better feel as the Growler then I will be happy. The only fly in the ointment is of course they are not back in stock until August. Still, gives me time to save a little more and to hone my very basic skills on the hire bikes at Swinley.
So once again thanks Fas1975 and missingtheVR6, you were both a huge help and I'm a lot more confident with my decision than I was last week. Cheers all.
Yeah online cotic seem to have a good rep and speaking to one of the owners/designers was hugely helpful. Nearer the time we'll speak again to refine spec. Sam was even fine when I mentioned limited budget and is happy to advise where savings can be made. The blue or yellow would definitely be my choice though aside from the blue all the colours will probably be replaced over the summer apparently. So who knows what colour I'll have come August! Thanks for directing me to them to start with.
Have this coming in May, deposit down and order confirmed. Very very similar geo to the Growler I tried so am confident it'll suit me. I can personalise the spec a little so need to do some research into stems, tyres and bash guards maybe but will pester you all for advice in a new thread for that.
Have to say so far the customer service at Cotic is brilliant, have spoken to Paul the owner on a number of occasions and no question is too much trouble for him and he's helped me tweak the spec to suit me and my budget. Looking forward to seeing the bike in May.
Have to say so far the customer service at Cotic is brilliant, have spoken to Paul the owner on a number of occasions and no question is too much trouble for him and he's helped me tweak the spec to suit me and my budget. Looking forward to seeing the bike in May.
So at that height I assume you are on an XL? If I remember right that's a fair bit longer than the Cotic XL. Glad to hear to hear you like it, have never seen a bad review of either bike tbh. I've strated to look into cushcores or similar tyre inserts, will probably get one though the price and reports of difficulty in fitting scares me a bit!
Cotic is 510 so a little bit longer. I have a local independent bike mechanic I use, very MTB orientated so I'll get him to fit the cushcores if I get them. Did you get front and back? Pro or XC?
I need tyre advice too, would be interested to know your thoughts as you ride a similar bike. But I'll start another thread for that I think
I need tyre advice too, would be interested to know your thoughts as you ride a similar bike. But I'll start another thread for that I think
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