Track day damage...

[steve singh]

Quick question - if you come off on a track day and hit a barrier which gets damaged or perhaps you hit another car - are you liable ?

No plans to do this - just don't want to get left with a big bill !!

[steve singh]

Cool, thanks all...it was the 'ring stories i've heard which made me ask the question.

All systems go therefore in getting a £1k mx5 for the track in the knowledge that my maximum write down is the value of the car...(though i'd obviously take it careful as i'm not built of rubber!!!)

[steve singh]

mrmr96 said:

steve singh said:

Cool, thanks all...it was the 'ring stories i've heard which made me ask the question.

All systems go therefore in getting a £1k mx5 for the track in the knowledge that my maximum write down is the value of the car...(though i'd obviously take it careful as i'm not built of rubber!!!)

Hmm, although the legal situation is pretty clear in the UK I'd be wary of taking an oil dropped to Nurburgring - the rules there are different.

Also, again accepting the rules are what they are, I am getting a bit fed up with people thinking that buying a "shed" or "snotter" for trackdays is a good idea. You seem gleeful that you can take a £1k car on track with other people driving their P&J and that you'll not be liable almost whatever happens.

I've seen people on track with this attitude before, and it's not nice. Just because your losses are limited doesn't mean that it's right or fair to be reckless. Nor does it make it right or fair to take a car which might cause another driver to have a crash due to dropped fluids, or require a red flag to recover when it cuts out on circuit.

Not necessarily aimed at you personally, just like I said, I prefer when other people have a bit more than £1k at risk so that they will have a more vested interest in 'taking care'.

1 - I'm aware of the Nurgburgring situation which is why I referenced in my subsequent post and actually prompted myself to start the thread.

2 - whilst you said the post wasn't aimed at myself, it was quite directly loaded against my points and hence I feel I need to respond.

I've owned many "top end" motors during my time (current garage is a 996 & M3) and consider myself to be entirely respectful and mature - I know full well about P&Js and my 996/M3 will not go near a track per se due to concerns around stone chips which hopefully demonstrates my level of OCD etc.

I would never go onto a track/road and be reckless as I can 'afford to bin a £1k car' - firstly my personal safety is paramount, secondly others personal safety is paramount, thirdly I'm quite risk averse and forthly I wouldn't want to damage anyones car through stupidity.

However the reason for my enthusiasm is that I've never done a track day and I know accidents can happen - a quick spin, a loss of control - the very fact they are called accidents relate to the fact they're not deliberate in nature (I would always try and drive within my limits).

Had my liability been unlimited then I simply wouldn't take the risk of an accident occuring - what if I hit a patch of oil, spun off and hit a barrier and got left with a £20k bill?

The fact that this isn't the situation and the fact a £1k car that I don't have to care about stone chips on and which offers very cheap consumables is what lead me to appear 'gleeful' as you put it.

I'm also exploring the idea of a rollcage (see mx5 forum) - does this mean I'm planning on seeing how the world looks upside down ?

Hopefully I'll get to meet a few of you on the various track days that I'm planning to do in 2013 - I responded to this post as I don't want anyone to get the wrong first impression should I have the good fortune to meet anyone from here.

ETA: Also if you have a quick read over on the porsche forum threads where some GT3 and Turbos were driven in my view far too aggressively you can see where I generate from - whether someone is in a £1k car or a £100k car doesn't stipulate the respect you'll show for others...it's your own personal mindset and morals.

Edited by steve singh on Friday 7th December 16:57

[steve singh]

Munter said:

mrmr96 said:

Hmm, although the legal situation is pretty clear in the UK I'd be wary of taking an oil dropped to Nurburgring - the rules there are different.

Also, again accepting the rules are what they are, I am getting a bit fed up with people thinking that buying a "shed" or "snotter" for trackdays is a good idea. You seem gleeful that you can take a £1k car on track with other people driving their P&J and that you'll not be liable almost whatever happens.

I've seen people on track with this attitude before, and it's not nice. Just because your losses are limited doesn't mean that it's right or fair to be reckless. Nor does it make it right or fair to take a car which might cause another driver to have a crash due to dropped fluids, or require a red flag to recover when it cuts out on circuit.

Not necessarily aimed at you personally, just like I said, I prefer when other people have a bit more than £1k at risk so that they will have a more vested interest in 'taking care'.

Bit harsh. Chances are that a 1k MX5 is mechanically sound and a good base for a track car. Body might be a bit tatty but otherwise not an issue. I sold mine for £900 and it had wanted for nothing to make sure it was solid and safe on track.

More often than not the people I find trying daft things around me on track, are driving the big flash motor, so they catch up down a long straight and try to outbrake the MX5 into the corner.

If he'd said £300 MX5 I'd have been concerned. £1k no problem.

The irony is he himself was looking at a fiesta/mx5 as a track day car...had i read some of his posting history beforehand i wouldn't have bothered to even respond to him TBH

[steve singh]

A D C said:

steve singh said:

Cool, thanks all...it was the 'ring stories i've heard which made me ask the question.

All systems go therefore in getting a £1k mx5 for the track in the knowledge that my maximum write down is the value of the car...(though i'd obviously take it careful as i'm not built of rubber!!!)

Although you're not LEGALLY liable for damage to you do to another vehicle, MORALLY is something entirely different. I would really urge to think long and hard about turning up at a track day with the attitude of "stuff the rest of 'em, I'm OK". There will always be some 50:50 things that happen but if you spin and you t-bone another car and then just shrug your shoulders. . . . . Well do you really think that's OK?

For god sake - did you even bother to read my previous 2 responses or were you just too busy generalising and making assumptions about my morals???

Edited by steve singh on Friday 7th December 18:45

[steve singh]

mrmr96 said:

steve singh said:

The irony is he himself was looking at a fiesta/mx5 as a track day car...had i read some of his posting history beforehand i wouldn't have bothered to even respond to him TBH

Hi Steve,

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I'm actually glad you took offence at my comments, shows that contrary to my initial impression you probably are a responsible kind of person.

When you've done as many trackdays as I have you will learn to be cautious of the guys running the cheapest cars. They're not all irresponsible, but a higher percentage of them are compared to those running better condition cars. Sweeping generalisation and I know there's exceptions to the rule (both ways!) but I'm commenting on past experience here, so hopefully you'll excuse my comments which really were not aimed directly at you.

FWIW I've not looked at Fiesta's for trackdays, but I did briefly when I was looking into racing - different kettle of fish! I've got an Evo which was £18k when I bought it which I use on trackdays.

Good luck with it.
Cheers.

No worries