Trackday cameras

[Smitters]

I've been thinking more and more about getting a camera on the car, for studying my driving and for making self-indulgent, poorly produced and (correctly) under-viewed youtube videos.

What do people use/recommend? I had a look at the top end cameras - the new GoPro Hero5 and the Garmin VIRB Ultra 30. Both seriously impressive bits of kit and whilst not cheap, they do an incredible amount in the mind of someone who remembers camcorders in the early 90s...

The Garmin records various data on acceleration, g-force etc, which has appeal from a car point of view, but does anyone have any experience with it?

What other options are there out there that allow you to overlay some stats and understand where you could gain some time?

TIA

[Smitters]

hkp57 said:

Jimbo

For the Garmin yes it has built if function to do your lap times, what you see here is standard overlays built into their own editing software.

you can customise the layout using different dials, G meter, altitude, gradient etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqvXvBe7XzM&t=...

Is that footage, sound etc all shot with the new VIRB Ultra 30, then the standard software used? If so, that's very appealing.

ETA - catching sight of your chinguard in the mirror is equal parts amusing and terrifying.

[Smitters]

hkp57 said:

Smitters, the video and overlay was captured using the Garmin VIRB Elite and standard free software, as the elite has such good quality and is 100% waterproof I have never upgraded to the new ones. Only change I made was to add an external microphone as the integral one is only good for wind noise. I added a Rode powered mic and placed it under the bonnet.

http://www.inta-audio.com/microphones-c58/dslr-vid...

Not the cheapest but great sound, no point having razor sharp images and rubish sounds as that's part of the experience

Edited by hkp57 on Friday 19th May 10:25

Sweet - that's really helpful. I was looking more at the new GoPro Hero5 because it's waterproof out of the box, whereas the new Garmin isn't and requires a case. On the one hand, it'd be cool to have a car-cam, but I'd like to think we can take it down the beach, or into the pool on holiday and have my little boy use it without worrying it'll get killed with water, etc. To know the Elite is like that too, has a screen and does good footage is awesome, given the price of the brand new kit.

That said, it seems GoPro were hiding some features up their sleeve - if a new camera is the way to go, this makes interesting reading/watching:

https://www.theverge.com/2016/11/20/13680300/gopro...

[Smitters]

OK - I've been swayed into a new GoPro Hero 5, mainly because my Dad has offered to assist with the purchase, which is frankly awesome.

Aside from the obvious - a memory card or two and a spare battery, plus a rollbar mount for the car, are there any accessories that are worth thinking about for this type of camera? I see folks have often suggested an external mic. Any other thoughts/ideas?

[Smitters]

I've swayed back! I started looking at the editing software because arguably, when you want to create something half decent, that's where you'll spend most of your time and it turns out that while GoPro allow the overlays, they do it it a dumb way and you have to repeatedly render clips, which when you do eight 15 minute sessions on a trackday, is going to get old really quickly. Garmin render once, so I've swung back to the Virb Elite. Added bonus is that it's considerably cheaper, a similar spec in fact to the Ion linked above, but much less cash. This leaves some pennies left over for a few toys, like an external mic, as I assume the built-in mic will be junk when mounted on a rollbar, decent mounts, a floating handle for the moment my son drops it in the pool and extra memory cards/batteries.

I'm not sure my budget extends to the very cool Rode powered mic linked above, so does anyone have any other recommendations? I run a screenless Caterham, so my mic will have to go under the dash or something to keep wind noise down and engine noise up. I'm slightly concerned the external mic adaptor seems to be out of stick everywhere, so I hope this isn't Garmin continuing a product line but discontinuing accessories. That would be super annoying, especially as 3rd party stuff has a habit of not working well with Garmins. Ho hum.

For those that care, my decisions making was thus:

HD - will my eyes really appreciate 4K and can I afford the memory cards!?
Not £££, so fewer tears if it falls off
Waterproof (ish) out of the box, without a case
Linkable, so if you have two or three cams for gratuitous Senna style heel and toe videos, starting cam 1 starts all of them
Software is good for adding GPS overlays and getting all nerdy about entry and apex speed

[Smitters]

Cheers for the links. The mic adapter is out of stock everywhere so I got an alternative, but the mic and extension look like a good start.

The garmin comes with an adapter for the gopro mount systems, and therefore all 3rd party stuff, but I went oem for my rollbar mount as the plates have teeth to prevent slip. Roll on Donny and my first footage.

Re overlays, the new gopro software should do it, but only if you have the right camera. Otherwise it won't collect gps, accelerometer data etc.

[Smitters]

Mic position will require some experiments I reckon. Luckily, I have a Caterham, so it's an easy car to wire and there are plenty of spots out of the elements to mount a mic. My prime spot will be under the dash in front of the gear lever, but it'd be easy to run a wire to the engine bay, if not the driest of places to mount electronics...

[Smitters]

Cheers again for all the advice.

A budget shotgun mic may be one thing, but I can tell you this isn't the one to buy: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00RF3EQ32/ref...

I'm amassing the extras prior to actually getting the camera as I have a TD about four days after my birthday. So far I have a nice robust extension cable and a load of mounting gear, but I was very disappointed with the mic. I'd hoped £20 was enough to elevate it from the super budget junk, given you can get some basic branded gear at this price, but obviously not. So much hiss it's unueasble - having tested it on a dslr vs the inbuilt mic, then on the laptop, again vs the inbuilt mic. I tried with and without the extension, but even holding it about three inches from my face, the hiss drowns out the speech! I'll try a Sony lapel mic for now and move it about the car during some test drives an wait until I've used the editing software before looking for independent recording gear or a pricier mic.

[Smitters]

Well, I now have the Virb Elite, but it's hardly been plain sailing so far. Not managed to take a video that has successfully recorded the GPS and speed info correctly, nor managed to get the Virb Edit software to export a video successfully. I concede it may be the user, but I'm reasonably savvy and I don't think I'm doing much wrong.

I'm really hoping it's not down to laptop specs took, as my work lappie is my only bit of kit and it is on the minimum for a couple of things in the software specs, but OK in other areas.

If I manage to get a video done, I'll let everyone know how it goes, but given the issues, I may be sending it back and just doing what was recommended in the first place, get a GoPro.

Any thoughts on third party software to add overlays for tracks, speed etc?

[Smitters]

loggyboy said:

Smitters said:

Any thoughts on third party software to add overlays for tracks, speed etc?

My videos at top were done using Racerender (mid range 'deluxe' version) at around £25.

Cheers. My main aim is using the camera to improve my driving so the overlay is important enough to warrant paying for. If I can't get the Garmin to work properly I'll get the money back, buy a more modern camera and some Racerender. Annoying though, as on paper, the Garmin should do it all out of the box, with no need to plug in to the car (I have a '96 Caterham, so this isn't an option anyway...).

[Smitters]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm really operating at the budget end, so buying multiple devices and software packs just isn't an option. That said, the Virb Elite should offer a one box solution. The beauty of it is that it records the all video, audio and GPS data itself, so there shouldn't be sync issues.

It turns out that the recent 5.1 version roll out of the Garmin editing software has, to put it mildly, fked everyone over. I'm in the process of installing a 4.x version, which is reportedly stable and also has lower machine specs, meaning my computer is no longer on base spec. Not everyone can afford a £1000 desktop to edit their shoddy trackday footage Garmin! The camera won't hold the latest firmware update either - I am constantly prompted to install the same version. Not a great start!

In terms of potential data issues, I am able to display and analyse the gpx and fit files recorded by the camera in other software (Garmin Connect and Strava), so I ruled out data/sd card issues quite quickly. The fact the Garmin editing software is able to render my route onto a map, but not display data in screen was another hint. I also had a quick go with racerender and created a working vid plus overlay for speed and position in about 30 seconds.

For my level of ability, I'm more than happy to review footage for lines, turn in, braking points etc and just use the audio and image to understand where I'm at - I am simply not good enough to benefit from super accurate data and would get more for my money by spending it on tyres, track time and tuition (three t's of performance improvement?). The techie in me loves the idea of being able to monitor lots of attributes, but I don't have the capacity to do anything with it.

Depending on what the Garmin software team do, I may simply pay for racerender anyway and use is for trackday videos, and something else for video editing. However, this does rather ruin the point of buying (or indeed having my kind fatehr buy me) the Garmin. It was a budget camera with lower specs than the new GoPro, but sold itself to me for the software (ironically, free to d/l anyway). If the new GoPro really does record the same GPS and accelerometer inputs accurately and I end up using third party software for the overlays (GoPro's is highly illogical apparently) I may as well have got the latest and greatest GoPro instead. Grrrr. Still. First world problems and all that.

If I manage to get anything working, I shall post a video.