Daily-Track Day Car for £2K Lap times, weight, power + more

[Justinas]

Can a daily car be fun on track? Let's find this out.

We all know that the best cheap (budget - £2K) track cars are the MX-5, Clio 172/182, MR2 MK3 and E36 328. This sounds great if you can afford to own two cars, but the aim of this thread is to find a single car that would be a cheap good all-rounder (have fun on track / drive to the office / buy something from furniture store / make a 4 hour trip / more than 2 seats etc etc).

I did a research and below are my findings. There are quite a few usual daily cars that can be tracked, some of them are a bit too heavy to get decent lap times, but in overall, they meet the criteria of this topic. As consumables is one of the most important aspects of doing trackdays in terms of expenses, there are no very heavy (+1500 kg) cars in the list.

#	Make	Model	Engine	Weight	Power	0 - 60	Lap times	Pros	Cons
1	Audi	S3 8L	1.8 Turbo	1420 kg	225 bhp	6.6 seconds	+1:21 Hockenheim Short / +8:41 The Ring / 1:14 Wakefield Park	Tunable engine	Expensive to run, heavy for track use, difficult to find one for £2K
2	Audi	TT	1.8 Turbo	1465 kg	225 bhp	6.6 seconds	1:20 Hockenheim Short / 8:42 The Ring / 1:35 Bedford West Circuit	Tunable engine	Heavy for track use
3	BMW	E46 328	2.8	1395 kg	190 bhp	7 seconds	1:22 Hockenheim Short / 1:18 Silverstone (National)	Reliable engine	Feels heavy on track
4	Honda	Civic Type R (EP3)	2.0	1170 kg	197 bhp	6.8 seconds	1:21 Hockenheim Short / 8:47 The Ring / 1:26 Rockingham National	Handling, high rev performance	Difficult to find one for £2K
5	Mazda	RX-8	1.3	1425 kg	228 bhp	6.6 seconds	1:20 Hockenheim Short / 1:32 Top Gear Track	Very well balanced 50:50	High fuel/oil consumption, engine reliability issues
6	Mini	Cooper S	1.6 Supercharged	1140 kg	168 bhp	7.2 seconds	1:23 Hockenheim Short / 1:38 Goodwood	Fun & good handling, Eminently tuneable to 230 - 250 hp, Upgraded parts easily available, 5/06 models with Chilli pack inevitably have LSD from factory & with even length end drive shafts torque steer has been engineered out	Supercharger can fail if not lubricated correctly, Cam chains on earlier ones, PAS pumps/motors can whine
7	Renault	Clio 182	2.0 NA	1110 kg	182 bhp	7.1 seconds	1:00 Brands Hatch (Indy) / 1:34 Top Gear	Good price / performance ratio, good on consumables	Odd driving position, uncomfortable for tall drivers, expensive cam belt/dephaser service
8	Seat	Leon	1.8 Turbo	1222 kg	180 bhp	7.7 seconds	1:24 Hockenheim Short / 1:33 Top Gear	Tunable engine	Not sporty handling
9	VW	Golf GTI (MK 4)	1.8 Turbo	1213 kg	180 bhp	7.9 seconds	1:23 Hockenheim Short / 8:54 The Ring	Relatively cheap to run, tunable engine	To be updated

By analysing the data we can understand why there is a number of Civics and RX8s on tracks. So which one you choose depends on your personal preferences:

Performance - Civic Type R, RX8 or Clio 182
Low overall running costs - Golf or Leon;
Good looking cars -

I hope this thread will help to find some useful information. Feel free to let me know if there are any other cars that could appear in this list. Some additional notes handling/performance/runnings costs wise would be much appreciated.


Data sources: fastestlaps.com, ultimatespecs.com, autotrader

Edited by Justinas on Thursday 20th July 20:06

[Justinas]

E-bmw said:

Mini Cooper S - 1.6 Supercharged, 170bhp (later engine), 7.2 sec, 138 MPH - Maybe not up to the Ike@ run, but fun & good handling

Good shout - thanks! Added.

Any common issues?

[Justinas]

EP3vMk3RS said:

Ive got an EP3 as my track car. Could easily use it as a daily driver. Will run for ever.

Good stuff. Any pros/cons from your experience?

[Justinas]

E-bmw said:

Pros

Eminently tuneable to 230 - 250 hp.
Upgraded parts easily available.
05/06 models with Chilli pack inevitably have LSD from factory & with even length end drive shafts torque steer has been engineered out.

Cons

Supercharger can fail if not lubricated correctly, which strangely isn't a service item.
Cam chains on earlier ones (you want the later one anyway with the 170hp engine) and they will either be good or done by now.
PAS pumps/motors can whine.

Good stuff

[Justinas]

CABC said:

i'd ignore 0-60 and lap times for track day fun and focus on handling and weight.
on track days you'll often see heavy, modern M3s rolling through the corners before splatting down the straight to set faster lap times. Great road cars often wallow on track even if their power makes them faster overall. An hour in an AMG at Brooklands will show that quite well.

Why not a Clio? Honda hatch? At least the older BMW will be lighter and have a lot of aftermarket support, especially new suspension.

Clio - does not meet the criteria of this topic. Honda is in the list.

If the 'older' BMW is e36, it is not light. e36 328 1.4T v e46 328 1,4T

[Justinas]

SonicShadow said:

loggyboy said:

300bhp/ton said:

Interesting thread.

And I'm also unsure the relevance of 'lap times' on a track day???

Because Racecar.
But seriously, whilst TDer's shouldn't timing, a lot do and - anyone who chooses a track car because its specifically intended for track and known to be capable will most likely be looking to make comparisons, and laptime is the only comparison that really counts.

Chasing lap times and being a daily driver don't mix... If you're chasing lap times then chances are you're going to want to improve them. All of a sudden you've got a stripped interior, modded engine, suspension that doesn't work very well on the road and a very empty wallet!

Some people chase lap times to track their progress of improving their driving skills. You do not need to mod your car to be better on track. The cheapest/best way to become a better driver is to improve your skills. Let's say your best lap time of a certain track is 1:30, let a racing driver drive your car and set his personal record. If his lap time is 1:20, you will know how much you can improve your lap time by improving your driving skills.

[Justinas]

MFR_TT said:

I'm on the look out for a 172/182 for around £1,500 - £2,000 and intend to use it as a daily driver and for the occasional track run.

I have two children and have owned a 172 Cup previously, I can't see any faults in it as a daily driver. Any car with four seats is fine as a daily, as long as you aren't doing mega miles. Then again I still can't see any issues with the Clio, it offers fair MPG.

Some people use the Renault Twizy as a daily driver, some - the Ford F-650. It is all about your individual needs as a driver.

[Justinas]

caelite said:

I think you are missing the point on the running cost part, track cars will go through consumables at a rate of knots, brakes, tyres etc etc. This is why Mx5s/Clios are so popular in the low price ranges, because they don't weigh anything. A 1000kg car is going to go through brakes a lot less than a 1400kg car, and the 195/50r15s you can replaced for £60 a corner for a good set of track focused tyres rather than close to £100 for more beefier sizes.

Both Clio RS and Mx5s also make great, cheap, dailies.

MX5 also has the advantage of a fairly lightweight cabin, diminishing the urge to remove things, the only real weight saving you can make is replacing the seats.

Edited by caelite on Wednesday 5th July 10:45

Great point. The lighter the car, the better it is on consumables - this is why we have that column called 'Weight'. However, I would not agree that both Clio and MX5s are great dailies, especially the MX5 (for example, one important reason - Safety 0 points)

The aim of this topic is to find well balanced cheap cars for track and daily use (despite how optimistic that sounds). I will create a new topic for track oriented cars within different budgets and Clio/MX5s will definitely be there.

Edited by Justinas on Tuesday 18th July 20:38

[Justinas]

I have never sat in a Clio so was unsure about comfort level. Will try it today and if it is a reasonable car, the list will be updated.

[Justinas]

Harrison-91xcg said:

Also for general input I have an e90 330i daily I also use for track. Book figures quote 1450kg.

I took it on track with duff SE(comfort setup) rear suspension (dead shocks) and it held up fantastically . I was able to keep up with a friend's mapped Audi TT 2.0 TFSI and just about hang onto my brothers mapped 123d at Blyton. Our cars all weigh near the same and have roughly the same power. My downfall was transitions where the dead rear meant I had to slow right down to keep control.

It was always my intention to turn this car into a daily track car. It now has a chunky steering wheel, weighted gear knob, Eibach springs, Bilstein dampers, mv3 alloys (wider rears) and yellowstuffs all round. I think it adds up to about 1k-1.5k.

I commute 50 miles per day and it's brilliant. It doesn't handle bumpy B roads like my 182 used to (I think this is fwd territory), but A roads it's amazing and comfortable. It's going to Donnington at the end of the month then hopefully Silverstone.

This is the reason why the E90 chasis is so popular in the VLN endurance racing championship. Would be the choice for £4k.

[Justinas]

300bhp/ton said:

Interesting thread.

Apart from being 'on track' I struggle to see the potential 'fun' factor of things like an Audi S3.

And I'm also unsure the relevance of 'lap times' on a track day???

I've used an Audi S4 as my daily driver - what a car! Expensive to track - heavy, thirsty, destroys tires, but fun (especially on snow).

[Justinas]

caelite said:

Find me a track setup MX5 that doesn't have a rollbar on it , its like the 2nd or 3rd mod for any owner with more than 3 braincells to rub together (Tyres, Coils/Geo, Bar).

"Daily-Track Day Car for £2K Lap times, weight, power + more"

[Justinas]

loggyboy said:

That is true, to an extent. But IME uts quite easy to reach the limits of a 'lower end of the spectrum' car, even if its s track oriented car like a clio or an mx5, and the second cheapest is to progress that car, before leaping to a car thats a lot faster - it will also teach about how the varibles can effect characteristics of a car. Alot will depend on the driver, it was only 3-4 track days before i choose to take an instructor out, and he said i was largely on the limit of what my car could do in its current form. So i chose the only route my budget would allow, mod the car a few parts (and therefore a few quid) at a time. Now im proud me and my car are knocking on the door of very respectable race car times, which i wouldn't be if it was standard, and i would have no clue of what to compare to, as there arent many (any?) pure road spec race series. Even comparing to my old times its no clue to real pace.

Great attitude. A lot of new drivers spend hundreds / thousands modding cars, but do not invest in driving skills / tuition. Ideally, the learning process should be this - start with a track oriented car, learn to drive, reach the limits, mod it, learn to drive, reach the limits, get a better car, start the process all over again.

[Justinas]

loggyboy said:

Its seats arent made out of spikes!

Of course it's not

[Justinas]

Chaps, your input is greatly appreciated, thank you.

In order to avoid arguments such as what a daily car is or who drives what, the first message of this topic has been updated - "more than 2 seats", which means no more MR2/MX5s. Let's focus on other options.

Edited by Justinas on Thursday 20th July 21:47

[Justinas]

Samjeev said:

Theres nothing wrong with daily driving a car with 2 seats, why would you need any more when daily driving implies you just drive to work and back in it?

caelite said:

Also, again on the, MX5, does fitting a bar really affect its ability as a Daily? If anything it makes it better, safety plus you can easily rig a wee pulley strap on it making it easier to yank the roof up at red lights, and with a bit of mesh serves as a great wind break. A 5 is relative lightweight and low CoG mean you can be fairly liberal with the suspension setup allowing for a much softer, but still capable setup than a lot of more top heavy hatches allow, yes it only has 2 seats but they are far less compromised in the comfort vs handling than any hatchback.

Edited by caelite on Friday 21st July 10:09

I feel this would never end. Ok, for once I'll try to follow your logic - there is nothing wrong with daily driving a bike with 1 seat. Buy an Yamaha R6 and you will have way more fun on track than driving any of these cars for £2K. Want more power, more speed? No problem, grab a Suzuki GSXR1000. 160 bhp, 0 - 60 3 seconds, top speed 180mph.

Let's end this discussion here. Should you have any questions, feel free to PM me.

[Justinas]

C70R said:

SonicShadow said:

C70R said:

HugoFastmann said:

SonicShadow said:

The biggest advantage of a 325ti is it's cheaper.

I've also just heard from a friend with a 325ti he's had his dyno'd at 204bhp, and it's bone stock standard. Much better than the 190bhp claimed!

That still makes it slower than things like a Civic type r, Clio 182 and Leon Cupra, as well as being significantly heavier than all three.

Can we please just accept that an underpowered 1.5 tonne hatchback isn't the best track car for £2k?

Weld the diff up and it's a great budget skidder though.

Agreed, but a E46 328i is cheaper/more plentiful and has a similar power/weight ratio.

A 325ti is cheap to buy, difficult to sell. Ugly looking and as heavy as the 4 door / coupe versions. I would rather go for an E36 323Ti, get the right toys (M52B30 + M54B30 + Schrick camshaf + M50 manifold = 230 - 240 bhp), install coilovers and E46 330i brakes with decent pads. This should not exceed £2K.

[Justinas]

loggyboy said:

None of these extras are gonna keep you in the OPs budget of your not spanner capable. Pointless throwing in cars that are within budget but need double the budget to make them track capable.
As mentioned plenty of times, by plenty of people, you will struggle to beat the Clio for budget, off the shelf track performance and everyday practicality.

I understand why you are pushing the Clio so hard, but it is not the best allround daily-track car for £2K. The ep3 beats the Clio in every aspect. More hp, less kg, better handling, more comfortable etc etc.