Discussion
Hi all,
Was hoping for some input.
First a bit of context. I drive a semi track prepared Celica T Sport, with grooved discs, braided lines, RBF600 and performance pads (aswell as various other mods). For the last 2 years and numerous trackdays I've used Stoptech Street Performance pads which have been great except boiling the fluid once (left a bit too long without changing) and munching through some half worn pads at the nurburgring (should have a done a cool down between laps).
So I decided to upgrade to some DS2500 pads and J Hook discs. Which I just had my second trackday on, but ran into issues.
On the first session I noticed the brakes didn't seem to give full braking force, and the more laps I did the worse they got. It wasn't like I suddenly boiled the fluid and the pedal went to the floor, it was like after the initial bite, no matter how hard I pressed, the braking force wasn't increased. The pedal was softer than usual and became softer the more I pressured the brakes but never fell away completely. I came in after a hot lap and noticed the pads were smoking and the disc temp was c. 420 degrees. And after a cool down lap they were about 250-300 (fairly normal). Later in the day after I drove home I did some 60-10mph brake tests and they worked fine again.
From what I read it sounds like Green Fade or full Brake Fade. But that doesn't really add up because I did the break in process (didn't quite get them hot enough to smoke but they did smell) and a 70+ mile track day where I was on the brakes more. Plus I've run my old, lesser pads without similar issues.
The only causes I can think of are either
A) The garage I asked to bleed my brakes with year with RBF600 didn't do it and I just slowly cooked the fluid
B) I gave my rear calipers a service and some new pads a few weeks ago (which involved jiggling the calipers around alot to sort the sliders and pushing the piston back in) which caused issues with them (doubtful as temps looked good and I think poor rear braking wouldn't have been as pronounced as I felt)
C) The DS2500 pads faded, almost straight away, and I have no idea why
Any ideas? Suggestions?
Was hoping for some input.
First a bit of context. I drive a semi track prepared Celica T Sport, with grooved discs, braided lines, RBF600 and performance pads (aswell as various other mods). For the last 2 years and numerous trackdays I've used Stoptech Street Performance pads which have been great except boiling the fluid once (left a bit too long without changing) and munching through some half worn pads at the nurburgring (should have a done a cool down between laps).
So I decided to upgrade to some DS2500 pads and J Hook discs. Which I just had my second trackday on, but ran into issues.
On the first session I noticed the brakes didn't seem to give full braking force, and the more laps I did the worse they got. It wasn't like I suddenly boiled the fluid and the pedal went to the floor, it was like after the initial bite, no matter how hard I pressed, the braking force wasn't increased. The pedal was softer than usual and became softer the more I pressured the brakes but never fell away completely. I came in after a hot lap and noticed the pads were smoking and the disc temp was c. 420 degrees. And after a cool down lap they were about 250-300 (fairly normal). Later in the day after I drove home I did some 60-10mph brake tests and they worked fine again.
From what I read it sounds like Green Fade or full Brake Fade. But that doesn't really add up because I did the break in process (didn't quite get them hot enough to smoke but they did smell) and a 70+ mile track day where I was on the brakes more. Plus I've run my old, lesser pads without similar issues.
The only causes I can think of are either
A) The garage I asked to bleed my brakes with year with RBF600 didn't do it and I just slowly cooked the fluid
B) I gave my rear calipers a service and some new pads a few weeks ago (which involved jiggling the calipers around alot to sort the sliders and pushing the piston back in) which caused issues with them (doubtful as temps looked good and I think poor rear braking wouldn't have been as pronounced as I felt)
C) The DS2500 pads faded, almost straight away, and I have no idea why
Any ideas? Suggestions?
I went for the DS2500 as they were the next step up (or so I thought) in terms of compromise between road/light track compared to my previous pads. And I wasn't aware of any harder compounds that are easily available.
Plus my car is a Celica T sport, so c. 1150kg and 190bhp therefore not exactly hard on the brakes. And while I don't daily the car, it's not dedicated for trackdays so I need some cold bite aswell.
I'm going to upgrade to a bigger brake (295 from 275), better pad, flush the fluid and maybe improve the ducts that I already have in place. That should sort it.
What I've learnt is that the Stoptech 309 Street Performance pads I had 2 sets of before are more fade resistant in my application than the DS2500. And are less than half the price.
Plus my car is a Celica T sport, so c. 1150kg and 190bhp therefore not exactly hard on the brakes. And while I don't daily the car, it's not dedicated for trackdays so I need some cold bite aswell.
I'm going to upgrade to a bigger brake (295 from 275), better pad, flush the fluid and maybe improve the ducts that I already have in place. That should sort it.
What I've learnt is that the Stoptech 309 Street Performance pads I had 2 sets of before are more fade resistant in my application than the DS2500. And are less than half the price.
I run a 1zz sump which has 'a' baffle, just needs a bit of modification to fit the 2zz oil pickup. That and run decent oil and a larger oil filter, always keep it topped up and no issues. I've considered the aftermarket sumps but they also increase the total oil capacity quite a bit meaning more expensive oil changes and longer oil warm up when driving normally. I'm still N/A and oil temps are have never gotten high enough to warrant more significant changes.
TBH I think oil being religiously kept fully topped up and really good quality are the most important things, unless you're going forced induction or seriously sticky tyres that is.
TBH I think oil being religiously kept fully topped up and really good quality are the most important things, unless you're going forced induction or seriously sticky tyres that is.
Thanks for the additional replies.
The calipers were both recently replaced and I give the brakes a good service one a year so they were all moving freely. I'm not sure what it was, but something in that Pad/Disc/Track combination didn't work out well.
I've decided to not go too radical but incrementally make everything a little better. Slightly larger (20mm) and thicker (1mm) discs, slightly larger calipers, a bit more cooling and slightly more aggressive pads.
I'm confident that will give me a little more reliability and a little more braking power too. Cheers
The calipers were both recently replaced and I give the brakes a good service one a year so they were all moving freely. I'm not sure what it was, but something in that Pad/Disc/Track combination didn't work out well.
I've decided to not go too radical but incrementally make everything a little better. Slightly larger (20mm) and thicker (1mm) discs, slightly larger calipers, a bit more cooling and slightly more aggressive pads.
I'm confident that will give me a little more reliability and a little more braking power too. Cheers
Gassing Station | Track Days | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff