Advice on track day tyre wear (AD08R)
Discussion
**Aug 2018: Update at the end of this message
Hello everyone,
Yesterday was my first track day, 20 minutes of track time at "Jarama" track near Madrid, with my bone stock '16 Seat Toledo 1.2 TSI (90hp).
I recently fitted a set of Yokohama AD08R (215/45 R16 88W) for this occasion, since I have another set of 15" wheels that I use for commuting (cheaper tires and better fuel economy). I used this tyres for commuting a couple of weeks and they are amazing, extremely stiff sidewalls and sticky rubber compound, yet perfectly comfortable in terms of noise and road compliance. For the street I was running 2,5 bar (36 psi) and the wear rate even in hot (35-40ºC) summer days and spirited B-road driving was perfectly normal.
During all my laps at the track I drove moderately hard on the turns and on the throttle, but gently on the brakes since I was warned that I could experience brake fade, overall my best lap was 2:30 (as a reference, a supercharged Opel Speedster was doing 1:52 the same day). I drove carefully, letting the faster drivers overtake me and taking it easy, the tyres performed brilliantly, I was literally "on rails" and the car was going exactly where I wanted at all times, the lateral grip felt endless and I did not feel the tyres become "greasy".
My colleagues on the stands told me that I looked dead slow compared to the rest of the cars
For the track I ran 2.0 bar (29 psi) cold tyre pressure on all four corners. The temperature at the track was 23ºC, I couldn't measure the tyre pressure after the laps.
I was expecting extensive tyre wear, but I was surprised to see the tyres were covered in chunks of rubber that looked like bubble-gum, please find some pictures of how the tyres looked after the track session. I expected this, but not that much. The chunks can be removed by hand and the rubber underneath has the normal shape of the thread.
Considering the conditions (low-power car, gentle driving, moderate outside temp., short 20 min drive) I wasn't expecting so much wear. All four tyres showed similar results, maybe the fronts slightly more (FWD with more load on the front)
What do you think?
Is this due to overpressure or underpressure? The edges don't look bad, so it looks more like high pressure to me.
Should I have taken a couple of cool down laps during the 20 minute run?
Thanks in advance
**August 2018
So, after that track day anther one came up in October and the tyres performed extremely well, I got again the chunks of rubber everywhere. Winter came and I replaced the Yokohamas for the other set I use, fitted with Goodyear Efficient Grips (about to be replaced) and then new Firestone Roadhawks. The Yokohamas were stored at my garage waiting for the summer.
At the end of June 2018 I reinstalled the Yokohamas and started using them again. This time I noted something had changed, the tires now feel harder to the touch and the grip is not surprising anymore, even hot. Aging? Heat cycling I guess?
I participated in another track day and it was obvious that the grip had decreased dramatically, the tire performed just like a regular tyre only when it was blazing hot. I confirmed another difference, the tire allows a significant amount of slide when cold and it doesn't squeal at all. When hot, the tyres now squeal significantly when pushed a bit, and as I said the grip is not as huge as it was in 2017. At least the tyre is very predictable and there is a little more grip when it slides.
At this point I'm fairly dissappointed with these tyres, now they are too hard even when hot and the grip is mediocre, they are 10.000km old now and I'm sure they would last over 30.000km (too long, I fitted these for the grip, not for economy), technically they have ended its life cycle although they have over 6mm of thread depth. I'm "scared" to use them in the wet or when the temperature goes bellow 15ºC, when new the cold grip was well above any nomal tyre, now it's like a chinese cheap tyre. I'll try to wear them down but certainly will not buy them again.
BTW, the set of Firestone Roadhawks I fiited at the beginning of 2018 surprised me for its AMAZING dry and wet grip and its handling. Honestly, they outperform both the Efficient grips and the (old) AD08R and are very cheap, fuel economy isn't outsanding but I highly reccommend them.
Cheers
Hello everyone,
Yesterday was my first track day, 20 minutes of track time at "Jarama" track near Madrid, with my bone stock '16 Seat Toledo 1.2 TSI (90hp).
I recently fitted a set of Yokohama AD08R (215/45 R16 88W) for this occasion, since I have another set of 15" wheels that I use for commuting (cheaper tires and better fuel economy). I used this tyres for commuting a couple of weeks and they are amazing, extremely stiff sidewalls and sticky rubber compound, yet perfectly comfortable in terms of noise and road compliance. For the street I was running 2,5 bar (36 psi) and the wear rate even in hot (35-40ºC) summer days and spirited B-road driving was perfectly normal.
During all my laps at the track I drove moderately hard on the turns and on the throttle, but gently on the brakes since I was warned that I could experience brake fade, overall my best lap was 2:30 (as a reference, a supercharged Opel Speedster was doing 1:52 the same day). I drove carefully, letting the faster drivers overtake me and taking it easy, the tyres performed brilliantly, I was literally "on rails" and the car was going exactly where I wanted at all times, the lateral grip felt endless and I did not feel the tyres become "greasy".
My colleagues on the stands told me that I looked dead slow compared to the rest of the cars
For the track I ran 2.0 bar (29 psi) cold tyre pressure on all four corners. The temperature at the track was 23ºC, I couldn't measure the tyre pressure after the laps.
I was expecting extensive tyre wear, but I was surprised to see the tyres were covered in chunks of rubber that looked like bubble-gum, please find some pictures of how the tyres looked after the track session. I expected this, but not that much. The chunks can be removed by hand and the rubber underneath has the normal shape of the thread.
Considering the conditions (low-power car, gentle driving, moderate outside temp., short 20 min drive) I wasn't expecting so much wear. All four tyres showed similar results, maybe the fronts slightly more (FWD with more load on the front)
What do you think?
Is this due to overpressure or underpressure? The edges don't look bad, so it looks more like high pressure to me.
Should I have taken a couple of cool down laps during the 20 minute run?
Thanks in advance
**August 2018
So, after that track day anther one came up in October and the tyres performed extremely well, I got again the chunks of rubber everywhere. Winter came and I replaced the Yokohamas for the other set I use, fitted with Goodyear Efficient Grips (about to be replaced) and then new Firestone Roadhawks. The Yokohamas were stored at my garage waiting for the summer.
At the end of June 2018 I reinstalled the Yokohamas and started using them again. This time I noted something had changed, the tires now feel harder to the touch and the grip is not surprising anymore, even hot. Aging? Heat cycling I guess?
I participated in another track day and it was obvious that the grip had decreased dramatically, the tire performed just like a regular tyre only when it was blazing hot. I confirmed another difference, the tire allows a significant amount of slide when cold and it doesn't squeal at all. When hot, the tyres now squeal significantly when pushed a bit, and as I said the grip is not as huge as it was in 2017. At least the tyre is very predictable and there is a little more grip when it slides.
At this point I'm fairly dissappointed with these tyres, now they are too hard even when hot and the grip is mediocre, they are 10.000km old now and I'm sure they would last over 30.000km (too long, I fitted these for the grip, not for economy), technically they have ended its life cycle although they have over 6mm of thread depth. I'm "scared" to use them in the wet or when the temperature goes bellow 15ºC, when new the cold grip was well above any nomal tyre, now it's like a chinese cheap tyre. I'll try to wear them down but certainly will not buy them again.
BTW, the set of Firestone Roadhawks I fiited at the beginning of 2018 surprised me for its AMAZING dry and wet grip and its handling. Honestly, they outperform both the Efficient grips and the (old) AD08R and are very cheap, fuel economy isn't outsanding but I highly reccommend them.
Cheers
Edited by Pableras on Sunday 12th August 16:38
Thanks for your advice, I'll take the gauge the next time, I honestly expected the track to have a compresor.
After some further inspection, yes, some chunks may be from other guys tyres, but some other clearly belong to my own tires.
What would have happened if I had a 290hp Seat Leon Cupra? I assume I would have melted the tires.
The reason I ask this is because I checked other people tyres (Pilot Supersport, Nangkang NS2R, Federal 595 RSR,...) and, yes most of them showed signs of rubber on the edges of the thread, but not as much as me, and all of them were faster/had more powerful cars than me.
After some further inspection, yes, some chunks may be from other guys tyres, but some other clearly belong to my own tires.
What would have happened if I had a 290hp Seat Leon Cupra? I assume I would have melted the tires.
The reason I ask this is because I checked other people tyres (Pilot Supersport, Nangkang NS2R, Federal 595 RSR,...) and, yes most of them showed signs of rubber on the edges of the thread, but not as much as me, and all of them were faster/had more powerful cars than me.
Edited by Pableras on Sunday 12th August 16:39
1781cc said:
Just to add, don't listen to your mates saying you were slow, go at your own pace, there will always be a faster car or faster driver no matter what you bring. It's all about YOU having fun
That's exactly what I said to my colleagues, I had fun driving and getting to know my car and this very technical track, it honestly felt fast enough to intimidate me, but I was also careful not to disturb the other drivers (letting others pass safely also slows you down).I'm thinking of going again in a couple of weeks
So, after that track day anther one came up in October and the tyres performed extremely well, I got again the chunks of rubber everywhere. Winter came and I replaced the Yokohamas for the other set I use, fitted with Goodyear Efficient Grips (about to be replaced) and then new Firestone Roadhawks. The Yokohamas were stored at my garage waiting for the summer.
At the end of June 2018 I reinstalled the Yokohamas and started using them again. This time I noted something had changed, the tires now feel harder to the touch and the grip is not surprising anymore, even hot. Aging? Heat cycling I guess?
I participated in another track day and it was obvious that the grip had decreased dramatically, the tire performed just like a regular tyre only when it was blazing hot. I confirmed another difference, the tire allows a significant amount of slide when cold and it doesn't squeal at all. When hot, the tyres now squeal significantly when pushed a bit, and as I said the grip is not as huge as it was in 2017. At least the tyre is very predictable and there is a little more grip when it slides.
At this point I'm fairly dissappointed with these tyres, now they are too hard even when hot and the grip is mediocre, they are 10.000km old now and I'm sure they would last over 30.000km (too long, I fitted these for the grip, not for economy), technically they have ended its life cycle although they have over 6mm of thread depth. I'm "scared" to use them in the wet or when the temperature goes bellow 15ºC, when new the cold grip was well above any nomal tyre, now it's like a chinese cheap tyre. I'll try to wear them down but certainly will not buy them again.
BTW, the set of Firestone Roadhawks I fiited at the beginning of 2018 surprised me for its AMAZING dry and wet grip and its handling. Honestly, they outperform both the Efficient grips and the (old) AD08R and are very cheap, fuel economy isn't outsanding but I highly reccommend them.
Cheers
At the end of June 2018 I reinstalled the Yokohamas and started using them again. This time I noted something had changed, the tires now feel harder to the touch and the grip is not surprising anymore, even hot. Aging? Heat cycling I guess?
I participated in another track day and it was obvious that the grip had decreased dramatically, the tire performed just like a regular tyre only when it was blazing hot. I confirmed another difference, the tire allows a significant amount of slide when cold and it doesn't squeal at all. When hot, the tyres now squeal significantly when pushed a bit, and as I said the grip is not as huge as it was in 2017. At least the tyre is very predictable and there is a little more grip when it slides.
At this point I'm fairly dissappointed with these tyres, now they are too hard even when hot and the grip is mediocre, they are 10.000km old now and I'm sure they would last over 30.000km (too long, I fitted these for the grip, not for economy), technically they have ended its life cycle although they have over 6mm of thread depth. I'm "scared" to use them in the wet or when the temperature goes bellow 15ºC, when new the cold grip was well above any nomal tyre, now it's like a chinese cheap tyre. I'll try to wear them down but certainly will not buy them again.
BTW, the set of Firestone Roadhawks I fiited at the beginning of 2018 surprised me for its AMAZING dry and wet grip and its handling. Honestly, they outperform both the Efficient grips and the (old) AD08R and are very cheap, fuel economy isn't outsanding but I highly reccommend them.
Cheers
Thanks for your replies.
I'm pretty sure the pressure is not the problem here, on the trackdays before the winter I know I was running high pressures, but the grip was great even though. The tyres were stored in a garage underground, the temperature rarely goes under 0ºC in the winter.
For the trackday after winter I took my pump to the track and I played with the pressure several times. I got the best results when I was running 29-30 psi hot, with anything under 26psi the tyres felt worse in terms of handling, without any improvement in terms of grip. Pressures over 33 made the tyre feel "greasy", but the difference wasn't huge. For the road I use 28 psi cold (recommended pressure), but last summer I ran 33 without any issues.
Honestly, the problem here is the change of hardness of the compound, during my first trackday the rubber was "sticky and soft" when hot, after winter it feels much harder when hot (just like a normal tyre when cold or just a tad softer), and I regularly drive with ambient temperatures over 35ºC on twisty mountain roads, so the temperature is not the issue.
I'm pretty sure the pressure is not the problem here, on the trackdays before the winter I know I was running high pressures, but the grip was great even though. The tyres were stored in a garage underground, the temperature rarely goes under 0ºC in the winter.
For the trackday after winter I took my pump to the track and I played with the pressure several times. I got the best results when I was running 29-30 psi hot, with anything under 26psi the tyres felt worse in terms of handling, without any improvement in terms of grip. Pressures over 33 made the tyre feel "greasy", but the difference wasn't huge. For the road I use 28 psi cold (recommended pressure), but last summer I ran 33 without any issues.
Honestly, the problem here is the change of hardness of the compound, during my first trackday the rubber was "sticky and soft" when hot, after winter it feels much harder when hot (just like a normal tyre when cold or just a tad softer), and I regularly drive with ambient temperatures over 35ºC on twisty mountain roads, so the temperature is not the issue.
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