impossible criteria?

[CABC]

my track focussed mx5 is dying. it's been a great journey and while the car is great on track, it's uncomfortable driving it to and from. trailering not an option available to me. I have several cars and i'm now looking to combine 2 cars for track use and some limited daily use with OH (town, airport, euro touring trip).
So, budget of 10k (flexible) for car that can provide some track pleasure and also ride fairly comfortably. Coming from a light, modded car this will be a compromise. Any car that's 'barely tolerable' to the boss doesn't work, so this is a difficult remit. It needs to be a daily that could track rather than a track car that could daily.
My thoughts so far:
- Mini Cooper S on small wheels. any ride compromise would be tolerated more as this is a 'sexy' car in her mind. visit to Lohen.
- Megane Sport. badge issues here, so it needs to be comfortable else she'll suddenly feel every bump. i have no knoweldge of Megane Sports but on paper they seem built for this.
- GT86. already have one. this is not viewed as comfortable at all, but if i was rationalising the fleet she could accept it as i'd have fewer cars. In std form i find it a bit heavy on track, which tells you how i view most road cars. (on track btw the power is ok, as this car delivers everything above 4.5k). Coilovers needed.
- FiST. badge issue again, but i believe it to be good all round?
- newer MX5. loses on practicality.
- BMWs probably too heavy for my tastes

i know this is an impossible challenge. i just want something a little entertaining for 3-4 track days a year and then i'll add in other track experiences & hire to get a more hardcore fix (and enjoy a comfortable journey there and back).

any advice on standard cars and appropriate mods appreciated.

[CABC]

motorhole said:

If a GT86 already feels too heavy, then, whilst the Meganes and such are great cars, you'll be fighting a losing battle going that way.

My choice would be to massage the GT86 (decent quality coilovers - KW Clubsport or Ohlins R&T which should still provide a compliant ride compared with offerings from BC, GAZ and such - whilst still being great on track), along with some properly lightweight alloys, titanium exhaust, carbon bonnet, lose rear seat, boot carpet etc maintaining creature comforts in the front. You might lose 50-60 kg which would be noticeable. But, if this is already considered "too uncomfortable" you might be fighting a losing battle there too.

If you can find a decent S2000 + hardtop in your budget, that might be a good shout.

My 86 was stock, so I hope coilovers and light wheels would make it much better. I do prefer rwd.
Although Megs aren't light I wonder whether they would fit my needs. Sport rather than Cup chassis. Sometimes it's not just pure weight but where the weight is and the chassis. 350Zs aren't that heavy but they feel heavier and don't like to change direction.

Despite all logic I could give a Cooper S to Lohen and the missus would tolerate much more. Women. Not my ideal but it would be a different challenge and therefore fun.

[CABC]

ThorB said:

Why not just put some decent suspension on the MX5? I had Koni Sport on my Mk1 and it was unbearable on the road, swapped in some MeisterR and it was transformed. Lovely and smooth ride on the road, then dial it up for trackdays, it was great.

The mx5 is dying hence need for new. Have MeisterRs and they are the best. Awesome track car. Now combining cars as per op.
My ideal road-going track car is a sorted MX5 with 200hp. After this experiment I may return to that formula.

[CABC]

AndrewGP said:

Sounds very tricky OP as your criteria are all pulling in opposite directions and issues with the badge don’t help

What about a Mk3 Clio 200? They handle, are light and are fun out the box on track.

Good shout.
I wonder whether the Meg will be too heavy for my tastes, so the 200 could be fun and comfortable.

My criteria demand some serious compromise, or clever positioning

[CABC]

mmm-five said:

Vauxhall VX220?

Lotus Elise?

Or maybe something a bit older/classic/lighter like an Alfa 75

Edited by mmm-five on Thursday 25th April 10:53

Hardly fit the comfort/practical remit !?

Already have an Elise that fills one part of the garage perfectly. That's for blasting in the hills. I prefer the playfulness of FR layout for track. Lotus are less forgiving and rather expensive to repair if the clams hit anything.

Thinking of more modern to keep things more reliable and comfortable. Running slightly older sports cars is work enough without adding Alfa into the equation!

Edited by CABC on Thursday 25th April 11:19

[CABC]

2gins said:

TVR Chimaera

That's a real possibility.... she quite likes them in certain colours. Leave your coat, bring up a chair.

A modified 86 is the logical answer.
This car is tainted as it's been deemed uncomfortable on really bad roads - roads we often use to see family. It is true that 86 doesn't deal with uneven surfaces well. That said, if we're compromising then she has to give too!

As per my op, it's a case of normal cars that could track rather than track cars that could daily. I'll make up my annual hardcore track days with the Elise, track hire and experiences such as Palmer, Driftworks etc Hence thinking of Cooper S, not GP2 or Works, and Meg Sport not Cup.

[CABC]

mmm-five said:

Would it be easier to rule out specific subsets of vehicles?

• No lightweight 2 seater roadsters (as they're not practical enough) - Caterham, Westfield, MX5, Fiat Barchetta, Fiat/Abarth 124 Spider
• No heavier, roomier 2 seater roadsters (as they're too heavy) - S2000, BMW Z3, BMW Z4
• No 'weak' badge - Ford, Peugeot, Nissan, Skoda, etc.
• No FWD - Civic, Megane, Focus, Fiesta, etc.

Yes
And GT86 is in the middle again!

The idea of the thread is to stimulate ideas. When compromising it's good to get left field ideas and you can then settle on something you hadn't thought of and in fact contradicts your initial thoughts! There are 2 people with different outlooks involved in this. A TVR is completely stupid. And appeals to both parties.

[CABC]

London. which is problematic for the Chimp.

i'm leaning towards a 2012/13 Cooper S atm.
revised suspension and it'll be a great London car and new experience for a handful of track days.
i was thinking of combining 3 cars, but if i can combine 2 at a cheap price then i can replace the 3rd with something more interesting and still have met the objective from Erin Dawes (i'm going to reuse that!).
3rd car will be a TVR, AM, Jag or similar.

[CABC]

Ellb123 said:

DC5?

I daily mine and use it on track too, such a great car all round. Really comfortable on the road, different animal when your pressing on up the revs. LSD, nice interior, plenty of space too.

Or maybe an FN2 Type R if your after something abit more modern?

good call.
it would need to be practical, so FN2. i'll give it a closer look. though it's still a bit loud even if nothing like the FN8.

[CABC]

current s'list is:
Clio 200
Mini Cooper S (2013 to avoid chain issues)
Type R

I'm tempted just to go for the Clio as it's a true modern classic and Evo benchmark.

Minis are great for the road, but they still seem a little fragile and not up to track work (with recurring issues)

Honda, great reliability. FN2 had silly stiff suspension, but i wonder whether aftermarket adjustable coilovers would do the trick?

[CABC]

NNH said:

Given you're already losing the battle on weight, how about a BMW E46 3-series? That gives you rwd, an acceptable badge, decent ride once you ditch the run-flats, and good aftermarket support.

Actually already thinking of that. Although it would need a diet and look like a council wagon pretty quickly. I've managed to remove my OH's badge criteria If I'm combining cars in the fleet there are too many conflicting requirements. So now it's down to a track car that can perform limited travel duties (3k pa incl to/from track days, so not much). An mx5 with 200+ horses would be ideal but it doesn't do occasional trips with practicality. So something bigger that can carry dress/suit carriers. I'll test the Meg, but I suspect it'll feel too heavy for my tastes.. maybe not. Have to reiterate, I'll also do more track hire as well. But it's always good to get back in a familiar car.

[CABC]

NNH said:

FWIW I have a FiST as my only car, and it's not a bad little do-it-all machine. For reference, my previous cars were a Porsche 996 and a 987, and I'm not at all disappointed with my current car. I haven't spent enough time at the track in the FiST yet, so I'm still relearning the hooligan approach needed to get a fwd car to work properly!

FiST was also buzzing around in my thoughts.
some say... that they're quite soft for track. as a road hot hatch it seems to be 10/10, especially the recent one.
i'm not ruling it out. in fact a hot hatch that delivers on comfort while also being able to go on track with *at least some ability* is very appealing. i'm leaning towards more arrive & drive and then more comfort for my own car after a few years with track specials and earplugs!
In fact, although an E46 ticks a lot of boxes, the reality is that the comfort and reliability of a newer FiST is more to my liking right now. And then the Clio 200....a modern benchmark, yet new enough to be reliable and relatively civilised.

[CABC]

the search continues.... purchase will be early next year anyway.

The Clio is a classic and remains tempting. However, the current thought is a 2013 FiST. highly regarded, comfortable and good value. cheapish to run i guess too. They have a softness that will be appreciated. Definitely thinking of a fwd hatch for this car before reverting to a GT86/MX5 in a couple of years.